Interested how you survive without credit?
- Thread starter hiho
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I think it was Jonesy(?) who said credit is everywhere in any post paid service (electricity, taxis etc).
It'd probably help if you can be a bit more specific and if you're talking everyone or just you personally etc.
It'd probably help if you can be a bit more specific and if you're talking everyone or just you personally etc.
I think if we had a free market and proper education about the use of credit it wouldn't be a problem.
The problem is we have a system which needs ever-expanding credit and which the education system is controlled and therefore the proper use of credit is not taught to the young. In this system, credit is widely abused, with the consequent negative societal effects and is looked on as fundamentally bad by many as a result.
The problem is we have a system which needs ever-expanding credit and which the education system is controlled and therefore the proper use of credit is not taught to the young. In this system, credit is widely abused, with the consequent negative societal effects and is looked on as fundamentally bad by many as a result.
You probably could do it...but your time and expenses would go through the roof.
We live in an e-commerce world which is all about speed...and credit (debt) makes speed possible.
It's all summed up in a book called;
"The speed of trust" by Stephen r Covey.
In a low trust environment, you can't rely on the good credit of the other stakeholder. You have to wait for hardcopies of documents to be mailed back and forth, payment installment plans to be set-up and followed etc (sounds like a homeloan doesn't it
)
In this video he uses a high risk airport and 2 legal firms as examples of how any exercise can be made slower and more expensive by a lack of trust. And how, Warrent Buffet can complete a deal in under a month (that would normally take a year) by ignoring due dilligence and just trusting the other party.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igyxxYShXYo[/youtube]
We live in an e-commerce world which is all about speed...and credit (debt) makes speed possible.
It's all summed up in a book called;
"The speed of trust" by Stephen r Covey.
In a low trust environment, you can't rely on the good credit of the other stakeholder. You have to wait for hardcopies of documents to be mailed back and forth, payment installment plans to be set-up and followed etc (sounds like a homeloan doesn't it
)In this video he uses a high risk airport and 2 legal firms as examples of how any exercise can be made slower and more expensive by a lack of trust. And how, Warrent Buffet can complete a deal in under a month (that would normally take a year) by ignoring due dilligence and just trusting the other party.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igyxxYShXYo[/youtube]
^ Good summary claw. I like the convenience of credit cards just like nearly everyone else. The owner (visa, amex etc) take on the risk of fraud, nonpayment and reduce cash holding risks for retailers so presumably they love it (but should price discriminate where possible if different cards cost them more).
Given recent other threads, it's worth pointing out again that credit card money doesn't add to the true money supply hence I don't have any real problem with people using these to the max. (Privacy, govt tracking and cashless economy concerns are another kettle of fish of course, but totally different discussion.)
On a personal note, I hate that Qantas & co make it next to impossible to use anything other than credit/debit cards.
Given recent other threads, it's worth pointing out again that credit card money doesn't add to the true money supply hence I don't have any real problem with people using these to the max. (Privacy, govt tracking and cashless economy concerns are another kettle of fish of course, but totally different discussion.)
On a personal note, I hate that Qantas & co make it next to impossible to use anything other than credit/debit cards.
I've survived pretty well without credit , never had a loan , except for the loan on the Shaguar , which was funded by a friend. 
I have a debit card , my account never has ANY $ in it .
If I buy something on fleebay I put $ into my account & pay for it than .
But than again , I don't own any property
I've never run my own business .
I have a debit card , my account never has ANY $ in it .
If I buy something on fleebay I put $ into my account & pay for it than .
But than again , I don't own any property
I've never run my own business .
spannermonkey said:I've survived pretty well without credit , never had a loan , except for the loan on the Shaguar , which was funded by a friend.
I have a debit card , my account never has ANY $ in it .
If I buy something on fleebay I put $ into my account & pay for it than .
But than again , I don't own any property
I've never run my own business .
That's definately the way to do it.
I've got a mate that works in the legal arena making good money, lots of cars, beautiful house by the ocean...doesn't own a thing. Everything's on the 'never-never' ; He'll never own it, but he'll never pay. I reckon he pays less in tax than I pay for coffee in a year.
Clawhammer said:spannermonkey said:I've survived pretty well without credit , never had a loan , except for the loan on the Shaguar , which was funded by a friend.
I have a debit card , my account never has ANY $ in it .
If I buy something on fleebay I put $ into my account & pay for it than .
But than again , I don't own any property
I've never run my own business .
That's definately the way to do it.
I've got a mate that works in the legal arena making good money, lots of cars, beautiful house by the ocean...doesn't own a thing. Everything's on the 'never-never' ; He'll never own it, but he'll never pay. I reckon he pays less in tax than I pay for coffee in a year.
I know a dentist like that
New Bentley convert , squillion $ properties & everything is owned by the bank :lol:
As I said to a mutual friend .
People who have real $ to park buy vintage cars , not new cars on HP
bordsilver said:
Yes it does. You borrow $100 on your credit card and spend it.
100 loan to you added to the asset side of the balance sheet. 100 added to the liability side which then gets immediately transferred to another account in that bank or in another bank. 100 has been added to overall money supply.
When you pay off the 100, 100 is removed from the money supply.
hawkeye said:
From Salerno etc's description of true money supply, Credit cards are different to FRB.
Sorry, would add link but on silly smart phone. (Happy to be corrected of course.)
Say you had a Credit Card with a $5,000 limit and you balance was always between (-$5,000 and 0) you would be charged interest on an average of $2,500 all the time at what? 12-18%?
Now say you didn't have a card but saved up $5,000 in an account and drew it down as you needed so you would have between ($5,000 and 0) you would earn interest on an average of $2,500 all the time at what? 2-5%?
The net difference is 14-23% on $2,500 and you would have the exact same cash/credit on hand. If you save this initial cash up early in life and never get a credit card you whole life is easier in the long run
Now say you didn't have a card but saved up $5,000 in an account and drew it down as you needed so you would have between ($5,000 and 0) you would earn interest on an average of $2,500 all the time at what? 2-5%?
The net difference is 14-23% on $2,500 and you would have the exact same cash/credit on hand. If you save this initial cash up early in life and never get a credit card you whole life is easier in the long run