Immunisation allowance for children to be cut from July 2012.

[valuecreator]

People who live in disease-prone areas typically have more babies to compensate for the fact that the early childhood mortality rate is higher.

If the children stop dying from disease, the need to have large families is reduced and people have less babies.

The "reduced population" Gates is talking about is "reduced from what the population size is projected to be if we let things continue on as they are now".

Gates have been quite vocal about this subject and has spoken extensively about it. It's well worth reading up on his lectures and writings.

^^^^^^ belongs in JOTD thread

as always, people just get what they deserve.

I have no problem if you you guys vaccinate your kids. After all it's just survival of the wisest.

The issue is when you want to force me to vaccinate my kids, for the sake of herd immunity (that phrase says it all, really).

Not on.

 

[bordsilver]

That's the third time I've been linked to for the same video today. He's not saying that he wants to use vaccinations to kill people at all.

No, he's just saying that using Health Care, Vaccine and Reproductive Health Services (whatever that is) they gonna reduce the world population by 15%.

How is health care and vaccines supposed to reduce a population?

People who live in disease-prone areas typically have more babies to compensate for the fact that the early childhood mortality rate is higher.

If the children stop dying from disease, the need to have large families is reduced and people have less babies.

The "reduced population" Gates is talking about is "reduced from what the population size is projected to be if we let things continue on as they are now".

Gates have been quite vocal about this subject and has spoken extensively about it. It's well worth reading up on his lectures and writings.

100% this plus a few nuances with the same outcome - i.e. all the measures he talks about leads to less new babies and population despite increased life expectancy not more deliberate deaths through some evil conspiracy. Anyone who doesn't understand how such a projection is possible (not guaranteed of course) hasn't looked into demographics (or understood it).

 

[Big A.D.]

"Official data shows that large scale vaccination has failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection"
- Dr. Sabin, developer of Polio vaccine.

Dunno when that quote was taken but there were about 350,000-400,000 estimate cases of polio thirty years ago and there are were less than 300 cases of it recorded last year.

Did you just lift that quote from an anti-vaxer website or can you provide some context in which it was given? I can certainly see someone who just developed a successful vaccination explaining their work in the context of earlier failures.

"Smallpox, like typhus, has been dying out (in England) since 1780. Vaccination in this country has largely fallen into disuse since people began to realize how its value was discredited by the great smallpox epidemic of 1871-2 (which occurred after extensive vaccination)."
W. Scott Webb, A Century of Vaccination, Swan Sonnenschein, 1898.

Smallpox did not die out.

It went on to kill around 300,000,000 people in the twentieth century.

It was successfully eradicated in the late 1970s after an extensive global vaccination program.

 

[SilverBrumby]

mung beaners

 

[Naphthalene Man]

mung beaners

what?

 

[bordsilver]

Donkey lovers

 

[bordsilver]

 

[SilverBrumby]

Love your donkey. peace and mungers.

 

[doomsday surprise]

There's a show on now on SBS about child vaccinations.

 

[adrenalin]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTE26ENzQr8[/youtube]


Some interesting information about measles.

He also reads the ingredients and side effects that is clearly stated on the insert that comes with the vaccine packaging.

(Eye opening stuff)

 

[whinfell]

Penn & Teller's take on the vaccination debate

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo[/youtube]

 

[Newtosilver]

Vaccinations do not guarantee you will not get the disease but hey greatly reduce the odds and the effect. I think it is pretty obvious vaccinations have saved millions of lives,. I have had more shots than I can remember, do some vaccines make you sick? I would say yes, I had bubonic plague vaccine and I was as sick as a dog for 2 weeks and I attribute it to the vaccine.

That said the benifits far outweigh the risks in my opinion, not long ago there was whooping cough around and a lot of babies were getting it, seeing a sick child and not being able to help them is one of the worst things I can imagine.

 

[southerncross]

Vaccinations do not guarantee you will not get the disease but hey greatly reduce the odds and the effect. I think it is pretty obvious vaccinations have saved millions of lives,. I have had more shots than I can remember, do some vaccines make you sick? I would say yes, I had bubonic plague vaccine and I was as sick as a dog for 2 weeks and I attribute it to the vaccine.

That said the benifits far outweigh the risks in my opinion, not long ago there was whooping cough around and a lot of babies were getting it, seeing a sick child and not being able to help them is one of the worst things I can imagine.

I am still in two minds. While I am not convinced that every new vaccine that is touted as a cure for this or that is genuine, I know from first hand experience that the old school vaccines made a vast difference in the world. I had teachers who were sufferers of polio, family stories of family members that died from measles, rubella etc, and now in this day and age second hand reports of babies dying from whooping cough as a result of non immunized (or so the story goes) friends or family.
I know for a fact that this years injection for the flu will not protect against any new strain unseen on the horizon and that I myself got sick as a dog after taking a whooping cough immunization to protect our new borne from the whooping cough virus, but where does the buck stop and the altruistic (if it exists) extent of the current PHARMA business model end ?
It is after all a profit driven business model that relies upon a problem to be solved right ?

 

[Big A.D.]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTE26ENzQr8[/youtube]


Some interesting information about measles.

He also reads the ingredients and side effects that is clearly stated on the insert that comes with the vaccine packaging.

(Eye opening stuff)

Dodgy stats there.

Vaccines aren't 100% effective in preventing the disease in everybody who gets them, so stating the number of people who were vaccinated and got the disease anyway is meaningless unless it's done in comparison to the total number of people who were vaccinated.

The five Disneyland cases of people who got measles despite being fully vaccinated represent a 95% prevention rate in a sample of 100 vaccinated people or 99% prevention rate in a sample of 500 people. If the vaccine is "95% effective", you'd expect 5 in 100 people to still be susceptible.

The mathematical model for calculating herd immunity against measles is that you need 85%-95% of a population not being able to contract the disease. Even with a 100% vaccination rate that's only 95% effective, you're still scraping the upper limit. In a population of 10,000 people with a 90% vaccination rate (which is higher than some places in the U.S.) you'd have 1,450 people who are able to get the disease: 1000 who didn't get the vaccine and 450 who had their shots and and are still vulnerable anyway.

That brings the herd immunity threshold down to 85.5% which is pretty much the lowest rate possible before you can expect outbreaks. That's exactly what's happening in certain parts of the U.S. right now.

People for whom the vaccine isn't effective (a) don't get to find out who they are until the get the disease, and (b) rely on as many other people being vaccinated as possible so (hopefully) they never end up finding out.


The "bovine serum" thing is certainly very emotive, but I had steak for dinner last night so I can't really get all "Ewww, disgusting" about consuming cow stuff, however the herd immunity effect is pure maths and the numbers being quoted in that vid are just wrong.

 

[Newtosilver]

Vaccinations do not guarantee you will not get the disease but hey greatly reduce the odds and the effect. I think it is pretty obvious vaccinations have saved millions of lives,. I have had more shots than I can remember, do some vaccines make you sick? I would say yes, I had bubonic plague vaccine and I was as sick as a dog for 2 weeks and I attribute it to the vaccine.

That said the benifits far outweigh the risks in my opinion, not long ago there was whooping cough around and a lot of babies were getting it, seeing a sick child and not being able to help them is one of the worst things I can imagine.

I am still in two minds. While I am not convinced that every new vaccine that is touted as a cure for this or that is genuine, I know from first hand experience that the old school vaccines made a vast difference in the world. I had teachers who were sufferers of polio, family stories of family members that died from measles, rubella etc, and now in this day and age second hand reports of babies dying from whooping cough as a result of non immunized (or so the story goes) friends or family.
I know for a fact that this years injection for the flu will not protect against any new strain unseen on the horizon and that I myself got sick as a dog after taking a whooping cough immunization to protect our new borne from the whooping cough virus, but where does the buck stop and the altruistic (if it exists) extent of the current PHARMA business model end ?
It is after all a profit driven business model that relies upon a problem to be solved right ?

Good post and I am with you on what you said, I personally think flu shots are a waste of time and money but things like polio, whooping cough, MMR ect are in my opinion magic..