IMF walks out of Greece talks

So its looking like they have a new deal set in place.........About bloody time Greece its only taken you 5 months!!!
 
TheEnd said:
So its looking like they have a new deal set in place.........About bloody time Greece its only taken you 5 months!!!
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Just like the time before and the time before that..... this is becoming like ground hog day :rolleyes:
 
Arsenal said:
TheEnd said:
So its looking like they have a new deal set in place.........About bloody time Greece its only taken you 5 months!!!
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Just like the time before and the time before that..... this is becoming like ground hog day :rolleyes:
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I'm not so sure anymore......This article says they still hav'nt made a deal yet? IMF still not happy with present negotiations???


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33265923
 
LOL the creditors are proposing a 5 month extension (not greece, they are rejecting this idea)

There are also flashes on Reuters that Greece's international creditors are planning to extend the country's bailout by five months (to November), and release rescue funds of 15.5bn so Athens can pay back the IMF on Tuesday.

The funds would include the 7.2bn Greece is owed from its current bailout package and 1.8bn from the ECB for profits it has made from Greek bonds. See our previous story here.
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http://www.theguardian.com/business...ets-to-open-lower-ahead-of-weekend-talks-live
 
Greece rejects bailout extension
4 hours ago

Greece's debt dilemma explained in 75 seconds
Greece has rejected an offer from its creditors to extend the country's bailout deal as too little and likely to cause recession.

The country's international creditors made the new proposal so that it could avoid defaulting on its debt - providing it agreed to reforms.

The proposal would have released 15.5bn ($17.3bn) of funding, 1.8bn of which would have been available now.

A statement from the Greek government said it "cannot be accepted".

"The creditors' proposal to the Greek government would require introducing deeply recessionary reforms as a condition for the funding, which is totally inadequate, over the five months period," said the statement.

Greece and its creditors have been dead
Bbc news
 
So now Tsipras wants to run what i would imagine to be a very expensive referendum to see what the Greek public think about accepting a deal.
This is awesome to watch>>>>
Tsipras was given the green light by Greeks at the last election and this is just a waste of EU time.
I guess he wants out of the Euro after all.
So as i said earlier a deal would be reached as i did not know if Tsipras wanted to stay in the euro i now think he just wants OUT.
If he does indeed want out (and cement his NAME IN HISTORY) it appears that he wants to mess the EU countries around as much as possible in the process.
Some sort of revenge may be?
 
sterling-nz said:
So now Tsipras wants to run what i would imagine to be a very expensive referendum to see what the Greek public think about accepting a deal.
This is awesome to watch>>>>
Tsipras was given the green light by Greeks at the last election and this is just a waste of EU time.
I guess he wants out of the Euro after all.
So as i said earlier a deal would be reached as i did not know if Tsipras wanted to stay in the euro i now think he just wants OUT.
If he does indeed want out (and cement his NAME IN HISTORY) it appears that he wants to mess the EU countries around as much as possible in the process.
Some sort of revenge may be?
Click to expand...


I think they were and still are looking for a deal to stay in the euro where their creditors either accept taking 50 cents on the dollar or something like that or they given a few billion to use to pay off some debt. The problem for the Greeks is that if they accept the reforms the IMF wants then the Greek economy is screwed, they will never have the growth required to pay back the debt, they will become a state with no services and hide taxes with all the money going overseas. That should have thought about this when they were borrowing of course, but they gave legitimate concerns. They are holding out for a deal that lets the economy grow so that revenue is taken from new growth rather than eating what exists now.

Think about Japan for a minute though, in 20 years they will have a third of their workforce in aged care, a third working to pay for the aged care and a third working to pay off Japanese debt. There will be about 6 guys left over working in a shed outside of Tokyo who's job it is to actually expand the economy.

Greece is a glimpse into the future of a whole pile of debtor nations. We're lucky, we can invite guest workers in to run our mines live off the fat of the land, I wouldn't want to be in Italy or Spain when things go tits up. We just have to hope that we have the presence of mind not to actually sell off our assets here so that wealth stays in the country.

I kind of feel like the west is the elves in the lord of the rings, once powerful, now fading and retreating to the east. I never used to think this way before I started listening to the people here, thanks a lot.
 
phrenzy said:
sterling-nz said:
So now Tsipras wants to run what i would imagine to be a very expensive referendum to see what the Greek public think about accepting a deal.
This is awesome to watch>>>>
Tsipras was given the green light by Greeks at the last election and this is just a waste of EU time.
I guess he wants out of the Euro after all.
So as i said earlier a deal would be reached as i did not know if Tsipras wanted to stay in the euro i now think he just wants OUT.
If he does indeed want out (and cement his NAME IN HISTORY) it appears that he wants to mess the EU countries around as much as possible in the process.
Some sort of revenge may be?
Click to expand...


I think they were and still are looking for a deal to stay in the euro where their creditors either accept taking 50 cents on the dollar or something like that or they given a few billion to use to pay off some debt. The problem for the Greeks is that if they accept the reforms the IMF wants then the Greek economy is screwed, they will never have the growth required to pay back the debt, they will become a state with no services and hide taxes with all the money going overseas. That should have thought about this when they were borrowing of course, but they gave legitimate concerns. They are holding out for a deal that lets the economy grow so that revenue is taken from new growth rather than eating what exists now.

Think about Japan for a minute though, in 20 years they will have a third of their workforce in aged care, a third working to pay for the aged care and a third working to pay off Japanese debt. There will be about 6 guys left over working in a shed outside of Tokyo who's job it is to actually expand the economy.

Greece is a glimpse into the future of a whole pile of debtor nations. We're lucky, we can invite guest workers in to run our mines live off the fat of the land, I wouldn't want to be in Italy or Spain when things go tits up. We just have to hope that we have the presence of mind not to actually sell off our assets here so that wealth stays in the country.

I kind of feel like the west is the elves in the lord of the rings, once powerful, now fading and retreating to the east. I never used to think this way before I started listening to the people here, thanks a lot.
Click to expand...
Out of the Euro Greece has a shot at making a living with a heavily devalued Drachma tourism would male sense and the couple of small exports they have will make them great money.
I know this is a very very basic view , but it holds true.
If Greece continues in the Euro then they have NO REAL WAY to make any sort of living for the country, because they do not have the resources to make lots of Euro's.
They need a devalued Drachma (or similar) to have any chance of making a living for the country and the citizens.
 
From Varoufakis on his blog:

Weisbrot and Krugman are Wrong: Greece cannot pull off an Argentina


When Argentina defaulted and broke the peg, the ill effects on its trading partners (China, Brazil etc.), as well as on the broader macro-economy in which it was functioning, were negligible. If Greece leaves the euro, however, the results will most certainly prove catastrophic for our 'economic ecology', and in a never-ending circle of negative feedback, will bite our struggling nation back.

To begin with, Greece must exit not only the Eurozone but also the European Union. This is non-negotiable and unavoidable. For if the Greek state is effectively to confiscate the few euros a citizen has in her bank account and turn them into drachmas of diminishing value, she will be able to take the Greek government to the European Courts and win outright. Additionally, the Greek state will have to introduce border and capital controls to prevent the export of its citizens euro-savings. Thus, Greece will have to get out of the European Union.
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http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2012/05/1...re-wrong-greece-cannot-pull-off-an-argentina/
 
As much as the Greek drama has been on going, I feel that this time the mathematical reality of unsustainable debt and years of hardship has come to bare. Regardless of how this came to pass and who is to blame, on the streets of Greece it's starting to get very simple.....More IMF/ECB money is not helping anyone here.

The way I see it, the negotiations have come so close to the deadlines that both sides must be well into a plan B scenario and perhaps even getting comfortable with it. Of particular note was Tsipras visit to Russia last weekend. Why? And what message did he want to send the creditors? Earlier in the week it looked like they may be coming to some sort of deal, in hindsight it have been more a way of trying to calm the masses and reduce the massive draw of cash from the already haemorrhaging banks.

Either way this goes now the outlook is bleak. Even if they take the money, the streets of Greece will be enraged. At some point the can will not be kicked down the road.... We may well see just how close Greece is to their Orthodox friends in the north.

It will be interesting to see if the banks open come Monday!
 
Greek capital controls and bank holiday from Monday > Week of Greek freak outs > everybody votes for more austerity and pension cuts at the referendum after being conditioned by the IMF that's its in their best interests otherwise get use to the capital controls. How much would this multi bet pay out?
 
Caput Lupinum said:
Greek capital controls and bank holiday from Monday > Week of Greek freak outs > everybody votes for more austerity and pension cuts at the referendum after being conditioned by the IMF that's its in their best interests otherwise get use to the capital controls. How much would this multi bet pay out?
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Sadly, I think you're on the money there. Either that or Russia gets a new ally and we all head towards misery.
 
Looks like this isn't just zerohedge fear mongering, the bank run is getting worse

https://twitter.com/mspriyapatel

About an hour ago
CIfZWTxUYAEPKJz.jpg

Source: @mspriyapatel
 
Caput Lupinum said:
Greek capital controls and bank holiday from Monday > Week of Greek freak outs > everybody votes for more austerity and pension cuts at the referendum after being conditioned by the IMF that's its in their best interests otherwise get use to the capital controls. How much would this multi bet pay out?
Click to expand...

I do not know of any oddsmakers who offer any of these as proposition bets.
 
Every other debtor nation in the EU is looking on Greece with bated breath... because the moment they're allowed to default on their debts the rest of them will be lining up to do the same... and that'll be it for the 'common market' experiment.
 
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