IMF walks out of Greece talks
- Thread starter phrenzy
- Start date
Its related to shine boxes, specifically, Turkish shoe shine boxes. They come with a fine selection of butt plugs and oils.Oldsoul said:Why are alien visitors always sticking things up asses and throwing probe parties...Skyrocket said:Stick that shoe shine box up your ass.Caput Lupinum said:Go home and get your fucking shinebox, you feel strong
Oldsoul said:
That shows how much you know about the Meier material. It claims that all so called UFO abductions never happened. They were first made up by the CIA for fear based reasons. That's who started it, then all these wackos jumped on the bandwagon claiming they were abducted by aliens too. Just as the CIA planned/expected would happen. Now there are thousands and thousands of these people worldwide claiming they were abducted. They are all wackos, liars, attention seekers, profit seekers and so on.
Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you Greece and its creditors;
Source:
Source:
Markets around the world were on edge overnight as Greece once again teetered on the brink of default after debt negotiations collapsed.
The head of the European Central Bank, Mario Draghi, warned the European Parliament that time is rapidly running out if Greece wants to remain in the EU.
"While all actors will now need to go the extra mile, the ball lies squarely in the camp of the Greek government to take the necessary steps," he told the Parliament's Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs in Brussels.
Greece's new anti-austerity government, led by prime minister Alexis Tsipras, has been locked in negotiations with the European Union and the International Monetary Fund for five months in hopes of securing the release of the remaining 7.2 billion euros ($10.5 billion) in rescue funds.
Unsurprisingly, it was European markets hit the hardest.
The Eurostoxx fell 1.7 per cent, Germany's DAX led the falls, down 1.9 per cent and France's CAC dropped 1.75 per cent.
In London, the FTSE 100 retreated 1.1 per cent.
Markets shrugged off strong trade data that showed the weakening euro currency is boosting exports.
Wall Street also went into retreat, weighed down by Greece and disappointing manufacturing data.
Abc
The head of the European Central Bank, Mario Draghi, warned the European Parliament that time is rapidly running out if Greece wants to remain in the EU.
"While all actors will now need to go the extra mile, the ball lies squarely in the camp of the Greek government to take the necessary steps," he told the Parliament's Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs in Brussels.
Greece's new anti-austerity government, led by prime minister Alexis Tsipras, has been locked in negotiations with the European Union and the International Monetary Fund for five months in hopes of securing the release of the remaining 7.2 billion euros ($10.5 billion) in rescue funds.
Unsurprisingly, it was European markets hit the hardest.
The Eurostoxx fell 1.7 per cent, Germany's DAX led the falls, down 1.9 per cent and France's CAC dropped 1.75 per cent.
In London, the FTSE 100 retreated 1.1 per cent.
Markets shrugged off strong trade data that showed the weakening euro currency is boosting exports.
Wall Street also went into retreat, weighed down by Greece and disappointing manufacturing data.
Abc
I was just talking to someone about the situation in Athens who was there recently and knows a few average Greek middle income folks. Contrary to the media hype about a zombie apocalypse he said it was all quite nice. The restaurants were quite full, the graffiti count was slow, public vagrancy and bad vibe (obvious public criminality) was low, it was in good order and clean.
Just a reality check. Looking at Greek property prices they seem quite high considering the employment rate.
On the flip site I am seeking a lot more media references to capital controls which I rank as a big deal as a precursor to their introduction. Though how that will be managed if imposed externally I could not guess at.
Just a reality check. Looking at Greek property prices they seem quite high considering the employment rate.
On the flip site I am seeking a lot more media references to capital controls which I rank as a big deal as a precursor to their introduction. Though how that will be managed if imposed externally I could not guess at.
I can't wait to use that boiled frog reference if/when France gets into deeper sh*t
The Facts on the Greek Crisis
Written by Jeff Nielson
Monday, 15 June 2015 12:15
http://bullionbullscanada.com/intl-commentary/26627-the-facts-on-the-greek-crisis
Cheers,
Luker
Written by Jeff Nielson
Monday, 15 June 2015 12:15
http://bullionbullscanada.com/intl-commentary/26627-the-facts-on-the-greek-crisis
Cheers,
Luker
Luker said:
If it is all 'vampires' etc causing Greeces problems then why O why did Greece do this
Hosting the Olympics to the tune 9 billion ($11 billion at today's exchange rate), making the 2004 Games the most expensive ever
In 2009 the worlds seventh highest per capita military spending. In 2010,2011,2012 and 2013 Greece spent MORE on the military as a % of GDP than NATO requires
In 2010 the retirement age in Greece was 61 and Greek civil servants could retire at 58 with 80% of their salary.
Public sector workers and state owned company workers were paid huge sums in comparison with other countries.
The Greek civil service borrowed vast quantities of money. They paid above average on underlings and squandered the remainder via corruption benefiting the higher ups in the civil service and public sectors.
The IMF and the EU did not ruin Greece. The leaders of the Greek civil service and public sector did and did not give a thought or care about the rest of the Greek population because they had their faces in the trough. The exact same behaviour can be seen in other EU countries by public sectors leading to a blatant falsification of public finances so they can keep feeding on their fellow citizens.
As the EU is effectively a big civil service itself it acts as an enabler but the people to blame are in Greece and blaming the IMF or ECB is laughable and shows how low state run media and the higher ranks of the European national public sectors can go. They will allow hospitals to shut, kids to go without while keeping their snouts in the trough and use it as propaganda to avoid any spending cuts on their astronomical wages.
Typical zones of the destroyers and thief's of their fellow citizens wealth lie in the top 20% of the civil service, public sector energy and transport boards, top state union officials, state media broadcasting etc.
Greek Gov't Celebrates the National Broadcaster Reopening
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/11/greek-govt-celebrates-the-national-broadcaster-reopening/
"ERT, which cost about 300 million euros a year to run and employed 2,500 people, was shut down as an austerity measure by the New Democracy-PASOK coalition on June 11, 2013. It was replaced by a slimmed-downed broadcaster of about 650 employees called NERIT, which is expected to be merged or absorbed by ERT"
............
"Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras had pledged before the elections that one of the first things the SYRIZA government would do to was to bring back ERT and re-hire all employees. The government has said that the re-hired staff of 2,500 including about 600 journalists would cost about 30 million euros a year funded by an existing monthly charge on electricity bills."
So in 2013 the average cost ratio per employee in this state run civil servant propaganda channel (every EU nation has them, carefully representing the interests of highly paid civil servants) was 120000 euros or 155000 Australian dollars(2013) for each staff member.
I am against the death sentence but to my own personal disgust I can't help but occasionally feel I'd like to see some of them swinging from lamp posts in places like Portugal, Italy, Ireland and Greece.
phrenzy said:
Here is an example of Irelands state funded national broadcaster RTE. Ireland has an 800% external debt to GDP ratio. Most are paid more than the US president. It is a fair example of how state debt in EU nations is raised and squandered on senior civil servants in the PIIGS. Unbelievably these media non-entities are 'proud' of having 'done their bit' by taking pay cuts to the levels below.
http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/...ealed/id/19410615-5218-5153-310b-4aa6f3353414
"
A list of RTE's top earners shows that Late Late presenter Ryan Tubridy was the highest paid broadcaster in RTE for 2011 with total earnings of 723,000. This was up 12 per cent on 2010 but RTE said his fees have been cut by 31per cent to 495,000 in his latest contract.
Figures released this evening gave details of earnings for 2010 and 2011 and RTE also provided information of its latest contract agreements.
The second highest paid broadcaster in 2011 was Pat Kenny, earning 630,000. His latest contract is up for renewal this year.
Marian Finucane was paid 492,000 in 2011 and her fees have been reduced to 295,000 in her new deal, a fall of 40 per cent.
Radio 1's Joe Duffy was paid 378,000 in 2011 and this has fallen to 300,000 in his latest contract, down 20 per cent.
Primetime presenter Miriam O'Callaghan received 307,000 in 2011, dropping to 211,000 in her latest contract, down 31 per cent.
Brendan O'Connor was paid 228,500 in 2011, down to 158,000 in his latest deal with RTE.
Derek Mooney was the seventh-highest paid in 2011 on 220,000.
Broadcaster Sean O'Rourke was paid nearly 209,000 in 2011.
George Hamilton received nearly 203,000 that year, dropping to 168,000 in his new contract.
Bryan Dobson was paid just under 198,000 in 2011.
Derek Mooney, Sean O'Rourke and Bryan Dobson are employees rather than contractors so new contract fees are not applicable to them. Their figures also include pension contributions.
RT said it has reached its objective of cutting presenter pay by at least 30 per cent since 2008. The broadcaster also said it has agreed increased levels of annual broadcast output with several presenters.
"
It is not just Ireland or Greece it is an EU wide phenomena
Italy: public sector managers highest paid of OECD countries
http://www.theguardian.com/public-l...ov/16/italy-public-managers-highest-paid-oecd
"Italy: public sector managers highest paid of OECD countries
Senior managers in Italy were the highest paid among the 34 member states of the OECD, according to an Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development report on citizen satisfaction with their governments.
Average salaries for high-ranking public sector officials in Italy were $650,000, almost three times the OECD average of $232,000.
Meanwhile, the OECD also found that only 28% of Italian citizens surveyed in 2012 had confidence in their government, well below the average confidence level of 40% across the other 34 OECD states."
And it is the same story in the EU headquarters........
Report: EU civil servants make more than Merkel
http://www.thelocal.de/20130203/47727
"More than 4,000 European Union civil servants earn more than German Chancellor Angela Merkel's 16,275 monthly salary, it was reported on Sunday. "
These people could not give a rats arse if people suffer to pay tax on low income to support them and will be the first to arrange hospital closures or close schools for disabled kids so they can complain about austerity to shield their criminal behaviour.
Greeks ruined Greece, just as Irish ruined Ireland, Italians ruined Italy etc. through prolific high ranking public sector greed and contempt for their fellow tax paying citizens trying to blame the IMF is laughable. They would have let banks sell children to paedophiles as long as they got their quarter million a year and lump sum on retirement.
phrenzy said:I meant the rest of what you said made sense, my that what the Greeks were doing made sense, we're on the same page
Aye. No argument here either...just wanted to illustrate the grotesque pigs in trough spending in the upper public sector hierarchies in the EU PIIGS and the EU civil service itself.
These people (the highest paid are in the national state finance departments) would keep up borrowing to prop up their overpay even if people were starving and wear 1000$ suits while doing so.
Even the politicians have very little control over them and can be easily discredited publicly by their own departments if their show any indication of spoiling the higher ups little gravy trains. The state run media are themselves in the same public sector unions and just propagandise for the whole charade.
For example Ireland has an 800% external debt to GDP ratio and has just approved an across the board pay rise for the entire public sector.....higher ups keeping their own 'tribes' greased so they can continue paying themselves vast sums thousand a year with the complicity of their 'tribes' who are next in line for their jobs when they 'retire'.
Here is an example of the money in euros senior Irish civil servants pay themselves (plus benefits, travel, cars, mobiles, pensions, expenses etc etc)
http://www.impact.ie/your-sector/pu...general-service-grades-over-e65000-full-prsi/
"Secretary General I 185,350
Secretary General II 185,350
Secretary General III 175,877
Deputy Secretary 161,552
Assistant Secretary 143,535
Principal (Higher) 103,9762
Principal 97,1942
Assistant Principal (Higher) 83,5102
Assistant Principal 76,2242
"
If you look at Italy for example
http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news/69037/Italy-has-world-s-biggest-public-sector-fat-cats.html
"
Paris, November 14 - Senior government managers in recession-weary Italy were the highest paid among the 34 member States within the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the agency reported Thursday. "
The people ruining Italy, Ireland Greece, France, Portugal, Spain etc. are these top 10-20% in the national public sector, who are unsurprisingly the same people ultimately behind the borrowing and incompetent banking regulation. Blaming the EU or IMF is laughable. As can be seen with Syriza reopening their 'national broadcaster' gravy train while their finances go down the pan is typical 'left wing' public sector union backed parties, who are best buddies with the same unions defending these grotesquely over paid incompetents who have devoted a lifetime from legalised theft to line their own pockets.
I still think the military spend in Greece was excessive. Most NATO countries don't make the 2% of GDP spend but the Greek overspend in the circumstance was outrageous. They could have wound it back to 2% readily without weakening capability. Most of that spend seems to have been connected with bribery and corruption in Greece also...so it is unlikely it actually really enhanced capability either.
I wrote this for the sub $20 silver thread when people started talking about Greece but it basically turned into a frexit post so I thought I'd put it here instead:
I've said all along that I thought Greece would not default, that they would have to figure something out and that this was all posturing. But after some of the things I've heard from the players in the last couple days I'm not so sure, it sounds like they are laying the political PR groundwork for a non deal on both sides. Some of the the things out of the EU/IMF side, particularly the comments from the Belgian finance minister that were quickly swept under the rug were pretty telling about how EU members are really feeling in private. Then of course you have the Greeks starting to say some pretty heated things like the IMF being responsible for criminal damage because of the austerity. That to me sounds like someone starting to lay the blame for the results of default somewhere else before it's even happened. You have the Greek PM sitting next to Putin announcing a $2B pipeline deal, literally a connection with Russia. I think it's possible that you will see them stay in the euro (for the moment) with some sort of partial bail out from Russia. That might turn out to be worse in the long run as that sort of thing has risks for the whole single currency concept, they won't want countries using the euro being propped up by Russian rubles. Of course the Greek PM being in Russia next to Putin at this moment of hough drama might just be another clever pressure tactic, get the Germans et al worried that the Greeks are looking for alternatives. The Russians knowingly playing a part because they get to make friends with the Greeks and the EU still picks up the tab on their debt.
I think you'll likely see some sort of bollocks 6 month or 1 year kick the can down the road style deal though. Nothing solved but enough time to keep talking about it in the hopes that Greek domestic political winds change and the threat of default in a year brings a new more pliable government who will do austerity. This has to be the most likely option. This will be ok for the markets neutral for PMs and everyone will hate it because it means another whole year of the exact same Greece story we've been talking about for the last 6 months. Their debt obligations will be bigger in a year though. With their bonds now rated as junk they will struggle to keep up with their spending if the short term deal only covers payments for the debt they already have and not new deficit spending
There's always the possibility they will default though, the PM keeps saying that their creditors need to be "realistic". They might default and then offer to negotiate terms with each of their creditors individually, like offering 20 cents on the dollar or else you get nothing. Hard to imagine what a post default Greece and EU actually look like though. They are going to have to accept severe austerity then anyway since they won't have hard money to pay salaries and pensions then. They will probably have to leave the euro though, there are pretty strict guidelines as to the financial state a country has to be in to be in the currency union and they will likely be in contravention of a lot of them. If they then have to revert to the drachma then they can pay all the wages and stuff in the newly printed money. If they default on their debt they will have no other obligations, the only real effect then is their ability to get foreign credit and the question of how weak the new currency might be. The threat of hyperinflation is an obvious issue, they could try and peg the drachma to the euro but everyone will be selling their drachma for euro then and they can't keep that up long because nobody will accept the drachma at the new pegged rate and once the Greek government runs out of euro reserves they will be screwed. They could resort to super high interest bearing bond issues like Russia in the 90's but we all know where that leads.
Could be the start of something big for PMs if they do really default, but I think more likely is the short term half bailout, metals drop 1% or 2% and nothing really changes. Even if they do get a deal I don't think there will be that much of an effect on AG/AU, maybe down 2%, I don't think a default is priced in so a deal shouldn't have to be priced out (tough of course there will be a little drop on the news). A real spectacular vitriolic default though, with lines of people round the block trying to get cash out the bank in Athens could be huge, just the image of that will have people all over the world stop and have a little think about getting something solid to keep at home, that could really cause a breakout and if your metals are euro denominated then it's going to be a red letter day. For the people of Greece though, let's hope that doesn't happen.
I've said all along that I thought Greece would not default, that they would have to figure something out and that this was all posturing. But after some of the things I've heard from the players in the last couple days I'm not so sure, it sounds like they are laying the political PR groundwork for a non deal on both sides. Some of the the things out of the EU/IMF side, particularly the comments from the Belgian finance minister that were quickly swept under the rug were pretty telling about how EU members are really feeling in private. Then of course you have the Greeks starting to say some pretty heated things like the IMF being responsible for criminal damage because of the austerity. That to me sounds like someone starting to lay the blame for the results of default somewhere else before it's even happened. You have the Greek PM sitting next to Putin announcing a $2B pipeline deal, literally a connection with Russia. I think it's possible that you will see them stay in the euro (for the moment) with some sort of partial bail out from Russia. That might turn out to be worse in the long run as that sort of thing has risks for the whole single currency concept, they won't want countries using the euro being propped up by Russian rubles. Of course the Greek PM being in Russia next to Putin at this moment of hough drama might just be another clever pressure tactic, get the Germans et al worried that the Greeks are looking for alternatives. The Russians knowingly playing a part because they get to make friends with the Greeks and the EU still picks up the tab on their debt.
I think you'll likely see some sort of bollocks 6 month or 1 year kick the can down the road style deal though. Nothing solved but enough time to keep talking about it in the hopes that Greek domestic political winds change and the threat of default in a year brings a new more pliable government who will do austerity. This has to be the most likely option. This will be ok for the markets neutral for PMs and everyone will hate it because it means another whole year of the exact same Greece story we've been talking about for the last 6 months. Their debt obligations will be bigger in a year though. With their bonds now rated as junk they will struggle to keep up with their spending if the short term deal only covers payments for the debt they already have and not new deficit spending
There's always the possibility they will default though, the PM keeps saying that their creditors need to be "realistic". They might default and then offer to negotiate terms with each of their creditors individually, like offering 20 cents on the dollar or else you get nothing. Hard to imagine what a post default Greece and EU actually look like though. They are going to have to accept severe austerity then anyway since they won't have hard money to pay salaries and pensions then. They will probably have to leave the euro though, there are pretty strict guidelines as to the financial state a country has to be in to be in the currency union and they will likely be in contravention of a lot of them. If they then have to revert to the drachma then they can pay all the wages and stuff in the newly printed money. If they default on their debt they will have no other obligations, the only real effect then is their ability to get foreign credit and the question of how weak the new currency might be. The threat of hyperinflation is an obvious issue, they could try and peg the drachma to the euro but everyone will be selling their drachma for euro then and they can't keep that up long because nobody will accept the drachma at the new pegged rate and once the Greek government runs out of euro reserves they will be screwed. They could resort to super high interest bearing bond issues like Russia in the 90's but we all know where that leads.
Could be the start of something big for PMs if they do really default, but I think more likely is the short term half bailout, metals drop 1% or 2% and nothing really changes. Even if they do get a deal I don't think there will be that much of an effect on AG/AU, maybe down 2%, I don't think a default is priced in so a deal shouldn't have to be priced out (tough of course there will be a little drop on the news). A real spectacular vitriolic default though, with lines of people round the block trying to get cash out the bank in Athens could be huge, just the image of that will have people all over the world stop and have a little think about getting something solid to keep at home, that could really cause a breakout and if your metals are euro denominated then it's going to be a red letter day. For the people of Greece though, let's hope that doesn't happen.
Have to remember to get more popcorn today when I go shopping