IMF walks out of Greece talks

phrenzy

In Memoriam - July 2017
Silver Stacker
Might be serious, might be nothing that bad at all. But given how US and European markets are acting around terrible world ending news like good jobs numbers just because it might mean a quater point rate hike, you have to think this might be big.

This doesn't mean that they are going to default but a lot of people thought that they were just about to announce a deal, not just about to see the IMF walking out in a huff.
 
To me both sides have terms they consider non-negotiable and wont budge on. They remain diametrically opposed and refuse to compromise in key areas, any agreements reached so far are just window dressing.

I can see a fresh election being called putting a freeze on creditor negotiations and payments....a default default.
 
More melodrama than a US daytime soapy. Wake me up from my coma when it's revealed Tsipras is Merkel's lovechild
 
Negotiating tactic. Not a particularly sophisticated one.
A deal was 95% settled, in principle.
The IMF walked out probably chasing a minor concession, a 'sweetener' so they don't appear 'soft' in any future negotiation...or they want are looking to bring in a Closer.
 
Roswell Crash Survivor said:
Negotiating tactic. Not a particularly sophisticated one.
A deal was 95% settled, in principle.
The IMF walked out probably chasing a minor concession, a 'sweetener' so they don't appear 'soft' in any future negotiation...or they want are looking to bring in a Closer.

They're obviously taking a page out of the Greek pkaybook. I still refuse to believe they aren't just playing poker. We get it, you study game theory, this isn't new start negotiations.
 
Hahahahahaha,

If you think for a moment that all these guys in power are on different side then think a bit more. Whole thing is engineered, everyone in power is bought and paid for and death quickly follows anyone going against the agenda.

These charades are to give all those who aren't in the know the illusion of opposition.
 
What if the opposition is real but the conspiracy within the conspiracy is that they are all on the same side is a charade to throw off all the conspiracy theorists?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/17/opinion/yanis-varoufakis-no-time-for-games-in-europe.html?_r=0

ATHENS I am writing this piece on the margins of a crucial negotiation with my country's creditors a negotiation the result of which may mark a generation, and even prove a turning point for Europe's unfolding experiment with monetary union.

Game theorists analyze negotiations as if they were split-a-pie games involving selfish players. Because I spent many years during my previous life as an academic researching game theory, some commentators rushed to presume that as Greece's new finance minister I was busily devising bluffs, stratagems and outside options, struggling to improve upon a weak hand.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

If anything, my game-theory background convinced me that it would be pure folly to think of the current deliberations between Greece and our partners as a bargaining game to be won or lost via bluffs and tactical subterfuge.

The trouble with game theory, as I used to tell my students, is that it takes for granted the players' motives. In poker or blackjack this assumption is unproblematic. But in the current deliberations between our European partners and Greece's new government, the whole point is to forge new motives. To fashion a fresh mind-set that transcends national divides, dissolves the creditor-debtor distinction in favor of a pan-European perspective, and places the common European good above petty politics, dogma that proves toxic if universalized, and an us-versus-them mind-set.

As finance minister of a small, fiscally stressed nation lacking its own central bank and seen by many of our partners as a problem debtor, I am convinced that we have one option only: to shun any temptation to treat this pivotal moment as an experiment in strategizing and, instead, to present honestly the facts concerning Greece's social economy, table our proposals for regrowing Greece, explain why these are in Europe's interest, and reveal the red lines beyond which logic and duty prevent us from going.

The great difference between this government and previous Greek governments is twofold: We are determined to clash with mighty vested interests in order to reboot Greece and gain our partners' trust. We are also determined not to be treated as a debt colony that should suffer what it must. The principle of the greatest austerity for the most depressed economy would be quaint if it did not cause so much unnecessary suffering.

I am often asked: What if the only way you can secure funding is to cross your red lines and accept measures that you consider to be part of the problem, rather than of its solution? Faithful to the principle that I have no right to bluff, my answer is: The lines that we have presented as red will not be crossed. Otherwise, they would not be truly red, but merely a bluff.

But what if this brings your people much pain? I am asked. Surely you must be bluffing.

The problem with this line of argument is that it presumes, along with game theory, that we live in a tyranny of consequences. That there are no circumstances when we must do what is right not as a strategy but simply because it is ... right.

Against such cynicism the new Greek government will innovate. We shall desist, whatever the consequences, from deals that are wrong for Greece and wrong for Europe. The "extend and pretend" game that began after Greece's public debt became unserviceable in 2010 will end. No more loans not until we have a credible plan for growing the economy in order to repay those loans, help the middle class get back on its feet and address the hideous humanitarian crisis. No more "reform" programs that target poor pensioners and family-owned pharmacies while leaving large-scale corruption untouched.


Our government is not asking our partners for a way out of repaying our debts. We are asking for a few months of financial stability that will allow us to embark upon the task of reforms that the broad Greek population can own and support, so we can bring back growth and end our inability to pay our dues.

One may think that this retreat from game theory is motivated by some radical-left agenda. Not so. The major influence here is Immanuel Kant, the German philosopher who taught us that the rational and the free escape the empire of expediency by doing what is right.

How do we know that our modest policy agenda, which constitutes our red line, is right in Kant's terms? We know by looking into the eyes of the hungry in the streets of our cities or contemplating our stressed middle class, or considering the interests of hard-working people in every European village and city within our monetary union. After all, Europe will only regain its soul when it regains the people's trust by putting their interests center-stage.

Yanis Varoufakis is the finance minister of Greece.
 
Caput Lupinum said:
What if the opposition is real but the conspiracy within the conspiracy is that they are all on the same side is a charade to throw off all the conspiracy theorists?



Can you provide any proof for this far fetched conspiracy theory of yours?
 
Skyrocket said:
Caput Lupinum said:
What if the opposition is real but the conspiracy within the conspiracy is that they are all on the same side is a charade to throw off all the conspiracy theorists?



Can you provide any proof for this far fetched conspiracy theory of yours?

:rolleyes: Go home and get your fucking shinebox, you feel strong :cool:
 
Caput Lupinum said:
Skyrocket said:
Caput Lupinum said:
What if the opposition is real but the conspiracy within the conspiracy is that they are all on the same side is a charade to throw off all the conspiracy theorists?



Can you provide any proof for this far fetched conspiracy theory of yours?

:rolleyes: Go home and get your fucking shinebox, you feel strong :cool:



Stick that shoe shine box up your ass.

For someone that doesn't believe in conspiracy theories, you came out with one yourself you wanker. :rolleyes:
 
"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

- Frank Zappa
 
Caput Lupinum said:
Where I come from mocking conspiracy theories isn't the same thing as making one up.



If you didn't notice I was mocking that conspiracy theory you made up. So your directing that comment to yourself you dumbass. :rolleyes:
 
Maybe I was mocking your mockery of my mocking of the conspiracy theory I made up mocking the original conspiracy theory.
 
Caput Lupinum said:
Maybe I was mocking your mockery of my mocking of the conspiracy theory I made up mocking the original conspiracy theory.


Whatever you say wanker. :rolleyes:
 
I want to know which forum member skyrocket is, I'm pretty sure it's a parody/spam account...same story for Yanis Varoufakis now that I think about it.
 
phrenzy said:
I want to know which forum member skyrocket is, I'm pretty sure it's a parody/spam account...same story for Yanis Varoufakis now that I think about it.



Very funny. :rolleyes:


I am SS member Skyrocket and I never been anyone else here before.
 
Skyrocket said:
phrenzy said:
I want to know which forum member skyrocket is, I'm pretty sure it's a parody/spam account...same story for Yanis Varoufakis now that I think about it.



Very funny. :rolleyes:


I am SS member Skyrocket and I never been anyone else here before.

Can you provide any proof for this far fetched conspiracy theory of yours?
 
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