If silver is silver then why not pre decimal??

SilverSurfer77 said:
Well I still buy it when I can, my thinking is just like fractional gold is very liquid in todays market because not everyone can afford to buy a 1oz gold coin. When silver is say $1000 oz your tiny little post threepence will have about $22 worth of silver in it. So it will come in very handy for small purchases or when selling to people who are only just waking up to what has been going on in the monetary system and not cashed up to buy pure coins or bars. I think everyone should have a little bit of predecimal coins in there stack but thats just my opinion.

SS77
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pre-decimal silver may contain silver but its not .999. If someone desired .999 from predecimals, it would require both melting down and refining.

Fractional gold may not be a full oz BUT it is still .999. If someone desired .999, it would NOT require melting down and refining.

Comparing pre-decimal silver to fractional gold is like comparing apples to oranges in more ways than one.
 
lucky luke said:
pre-decimal silver may contain silver but its not .999. If someone desired .999 from predecimals, it would require both melting down and refining.

Fractional gold may not be a full oz BUT it is still .999. If someone desired .999, it would NOT require melting down and refining.

Comparing pre-decimal silver to fractional gold is like comparing apples to oranges in more ways than one.
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Actually it's a pretty good comparison. What are sovereigns etc? Fractional or not fractional?
 
yennus said:
Silver isn't silver...

Some types of silver are in greater demand and shorter supply than other types of silver.
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1646_galeforcesales-kwang-tung.jpg


When silver isnt silver...

IMO.. the BEST gains to be had and "chance of a lotto win" purchase would be an unsearched pre-decimal lot.. so many average condition pre decimal coins are worth multiples of their scrap value, any better than average example for dictate nice premiums, so it is not as if there isnt tremendious potential, its just you want to be buying unsearched lots.. even average lots are ok at spot or so..

Every should have some and have a little knowledge in them because there are big oppertunities if you are able to indentify key dates and authenticy and understand their true values.

Most importantly, they are part of Australian and intl history and are antiquities.

1for1
 
When dealers buy back any non-pure silver, they usually pay considerably less (ie. 85% to 90% of spot on the silver content).
Nothing wrong with buying pre-dec, as long as you keep that fact in mind.

Also note that if silver does go parabolic again, the refineries will be so backlogged with sterling and pre-dec to refine, dealers will only want to buy pure.
Happened in 1980.


If you only ever plan to sell to other stackers with premiums, then these would not be an issue.
 
lucky luke said:
SilverSurfer77 said:
Well I still buy it when I can, my thinking is just like fractional gold is very liquid in todays market because not everyone can afford to buy a 1oz gold coin. When silver is say $1000 oz your tiny little post threepence will have about $22 worth of silver in it. So it will come in very handy for small purchases or when selling to people who are only just waking up to what has been going on in the monetary system and not cashed up to buy pure coins or bars. I think everyone should have a little bit of predecimal coins in there stack but thats just my opinion.

SS77
Click to expand...

pre-decimal silver may contain silver but its not .999. If someone desired .999 from predecimals, it would require both melting down and refining.

Fractional gold may not be a full oz BUT it is still .999. If someone desired .999, it would NOT require melting down and refining.

Comparing pre-decimal silver to fractional gold is like comparing apples to oranges in more ways than one.
Click to expand...


The only reason someone would need .999 silver is for industrial purposes. Having .999 means they do not have to refine it before they can use it whatever application they needed it for. When silver is used as money, there is no need to have .999 also the other metals are added to make the silver go further e.g make more money. Because silver is alot scarcer now this will still be the case if we start using real money again. Im not saying only stack pre decimal at all but if silver is to be used as money again in the future, it has already been done for us in the form of pre decimal coins, fractions of .0227 oz for your little post 1946 3p up to .84 oz for a 37-38 crown. With all the others in between there is a huge range of fractional silver that we can buy things with. If .999 was used as money can you imagine how small a .0227 oz would be?

SS77
 
Ok so im on board with this pre dec thing.

in the 1940's NZ average wage was about 5 pound/week = 100 shillings - 20/day.

To me that puts things in perspective. Sure now we all buy 999 by the bar but even a 10oz bar is thats 110 NZ shillings (more than an old school weeks pay).

If silver was to be used as money ever again, the fractional side of things is interesting. How do people deal with transactions of a "weeks pay" size? even someone earning 50k is $1000...... 10X the largest note we have in circulation. Transactions of this size are generally done electronically noways.

In the event of our almighty worldwide fiat system crashing?

I know I still like to have a stack of 999 but to me thats a bit like the electronic transactions of today, rarely take it out of the safe, only trade it for big ticket items etc.
pre dec is more attractive for the day to day side of things, food, wages etc.

Also if we got to use silver as money again how would 999 stand up to the duties as circulated coinage? how much wear in peoples pockets and purses before your 0z is less than a full oz? the pre dec stuff is heaps tougher.
 
I'd take the 1000oz bar over 1000oz of predecimal any day.

The 1000oz bar Gold Stackers had recently sold through this forum - there's a huge contingent of active lurkers that just don't post "buzz" when they buy. Took 25 hours to sell.

5kg bars are a funny one - seems people much prefer 100oz bars over the 5kg size.

Looks like Bullion Bourse just shifted 15x 100oz in under 24 hours. Always comes down to the price.
 
I'm really not convinced about scrap coins and their value appart from melting, isn't that what has happened before?
when STHF last time a large portion of scrap coins was melted?

No-one outside of coins really knows anything about old coins and silver content, how would my mate at 7/11
be able to accept an old coin with silver content?

I think there popularity is simply because there are so many low end collectors with little funds and it's better to buy a $10 coin with $8 worth of silver in it then nothing.

I have the same issues selling footy cards, I can sell 100 x $2 cards in the same time i sell 1 card worth $200
yet the $2 cards will always be considered junk.

I don't think there's an issue of a .999 coin wearing out that much if in circulation, it's not as if everyone will have coins jingling in their pockets if SHTF and it doesn't matter anyway, the only coins that would be weighed are junk coins, no need with .999 as they usually say 1oz on the coin so it's like a $10 note, if it has corner teared off it's still worth $10 and no loss, so minor wear doesn't matter.
 
Bullion Baron said:
If that was the same sale I recall it was being bumped and reposted for weeks. IMO straight kilo bars would have sold quicker.

There was another recent lot being sold (around $3000 worth if I recall) and the seller struggled to get a bite even when dropping the price to 6% under spot and I had a similar experience in April last year.

I think a small amount of predecimal/round 50s is ok (I only hold round 50s), but prefer finer grade Silver (.999) as there is potentially a larger pool of buyers who could make use out of it (for industrial or jewellery purposes), so in theory it should be easier to sell when the time comes.

My base case scenario isn't a mad max environment where we will need Silver for barter, but if a stacker thinks this is likely then the predecimal will probably serve them better than bars.
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I guess this was kinda what I was getting at with my original post. If silver is silver then why don't people snap up pre dec which is less than spot rather than paying an extra "premium" to get it in a bar? If all you care about is building a stack - why pay extra to get it in a bar? Surely if you don't want to pay a premium to get it in a coin - why pay more for a bar?

malachii
 
Hello. First post. :)

I like to handle my precious metals and enjoy the feeling of coins running thru my fingers. I've only ever bought pre decimal sterling and I don't care about coin collecting so mine is all shiny shiny shiny as soon as I get hold of it.

A cascade of little plastic cases running from your palms couldn't be as much fun? No delightful clinking. ;)

I hope I'll be able to pickup some horrible scungy sixpences from some of you sometime. :)

Ethan
 
EthanEdwards said:
Hello. First post. :)

I like to handle my precious metals and enjoy the feeling of coins running thru my fingers. I've only ever bought pre decimal sterling and I don't care about coin collecting so mine is all shiny shiny shiny as soon as I get hold of it.

A cascade of little plastic cases running from your palms couldn't be as much fun? No delightful clinking. ;)

I hope I'll be able to pickup some horrible scungy sixpences from some of you sometime. :)

Ethan
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Ethan if you seriously want some put a wanted to buy ad in the trading forum im sure you will get offers of what your looking for
 
When silver shot up to $20 I rang around a few refineries to see how I could go about offloading my 20+ kg of post-45 pre-dec.

They wouldn't touch the stuff, wanted at least a ton before they would consider it. They didn't even want the 925.

They were happy to take any gold and the 1966 50 cents.

Pre-dec has basically been assayed and stamped by the Gov, which is slightly more trustworthy than a private mint, or at least, if not as trustworthy then at least held up to more scrutiny.

I have had no problem selling for just under spot, I bought a lot of it below spot at $15 so I am not that bothered. It isn't like it is freshly minted or highly desirable.

I can refine it myself in the kitchen if I ever need it to be purer but then I have to get it assayed. At least in its current form you know what it is made of.

I have junk silver from around the world, it looks great in a treasure chest but it is a bugger to jave to clean all the smaller ones.

DSCF3263.jpg
 
SilverSurfer77 said:
look like florins (front), shillings (middle), six pence (back)
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Correct!

From memory, 10 coins to a stack. About 23kg worth, maybe 22kg once all the dirt is cleaned off them.
 
Unfortunately it is mostly 50%, would be worth twice as much otherwise!

I figured I had better get a picture of it all together because once it gets packed away I can't be bothered to pull it all out again.

myfriendsstack-1.jpg


Since taking the picture about 3kg from the left has been converted into gold via a straight swap and most of the 1966 50 cents on the right have been converted into 10oz dragons, also by direct swap.

Enough people like it and it is good if you want to diversify a bit, once again, swapped for spot price and once again it was the increase in spot from when I bought it which was the saving grace.

Quite a few of the coins I bought in the piles of junk were collectible grade, won't know how collectible until I go to sell them but I would say that pretty much any hoard has been well picked over by dealers in the past, no rareties but some nice condition ones do turn up. Occassionaly you get a 925 in amongst them and occassionaly you get some NZ or UK cupro-nickel.
 
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