I need Spot to hit 18.07 to Breakeven

S

Stack'n Oz's

New Member
So I have only been "stacking" bars since Feb; if 85 Troy Oz's in less than a month can be called stacking? This doesn't include any of the high premium coins I bought "just to have."

I have bought when spot was as low as $14.95, and as high as $15.75. I have used my credit card on each purchase and incurred costs of $1,536.05.

Therefore, I need Spot to hit $18.07 just to breakeven.


Clearly buying physical silver, especially with a credit card is a horrible "investment." But I am still going to buy, and buy with my credit card so it gets here quicker... I think I'm ill!! FYI - I pay off my credit card every two weeks. It's just that here in the states, they give you the option to mail a check, and though they charge less, clearly it just takes longer.



Am I ill? I ask because, I really don't see an end of the word scenario playing out and don't see hyper inflation coming either ... but I just love having the stuff lol!!


Rather than calling myself ill or a bad investor, I think I'll call it a hobby/collection thing - to justify it to myself :D.
 
Stack'n Oz's said:
Clearly buying physical silver, especially with a credit card is a horrible "investment." But I am still going to buy, and buy with my credit card so it gets here quicker... I think I'm ill!!

Am I ill? I ask because, I really don't see an end of the word scenario playing out and don't see hyper inflation coming either ... but I just love having the stuff lol!!

Rather than calling myself ill or a bad investor, I think I'll call it a hobby/collection thing - to justify it to myself :D.
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You're not ill, but you do need to define what your goals are. Silver as a short term investment (which it sounds like your shooting for) is probably never going to make you rich. You'd need to buy at a sub 15 spot, and then find it shooting up to silly amounts and then you'd need to sell it before you made any real money. I too don't see any end of the world scenario coming up, so you're not alone in that.

Stack for the long term. Set yourself some limits, ie I don't intend to buy silver if it goes over 20 spot.

There's nothing wrong with calling yourself a hobbyist stacker, I currently have nearly 300 ounces of silver and 30 ounces of gold and I consider myself an amateur, hobbyist, taking the long view approach to it. Once upon a time silver was nearly 50 bucks an ounce, maybe it'll get there again, maybe it won't, if not I'll at least have something to leave behind for my family and that is a small comfort as I undergo chemo these days.
 
Unless your paying the card off every month it would seem that you'd be much better off just not buying at all. I guess it's nice to have a lot of silver but it's nicer to not have debt that grows every month while the silver sits pretty stagnant in value.
 
Jsvand5 said:
Unless your paying the card off every month it would seem that you'd be much better off just not buying at all. I guess it's nice to have a lot of silver but it's nicer to not have debt that grows every month while the silver sits pretty stagnant in value.
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Yeah I note in some country's it doesn't matter how you pay. I stated credit card because it raises the price somewhat here in the States. I never carry a balance though. Thanks.
 
They say if you don't hold it, you don't own it.
You've managed to hold it and still not own it.
Quite brilliant really.

Good luck.
 
Stack'n Oz's said:
Rather than calling myself ill or a bad investor, I think I'll call it a hobby/collection thing - to justify it to myself :D.
Click to expand...
I love your honesty. Kudos to you. :lol:
 
Stack'n Oz's said:
So I have only been "stacking" bars since Feb; if 85 Troy Oz's in less than a month can be called stacking? This doesn't include any of the high premium coins I bought "just to have."

I have bought when spot was as low as $14.95, and as high as $15.75. I have used my credit card on each purchase and incurred costs of $1,536.05.

Therefore, I need Spot to hit $18.07 just to breakeven.


Clearly buying physical silver, especially with a credit card is a horrible "investment." But I am still going to buy, and buy with my credit card so it gets here quicker... I think I'm ill!! FYI - I pay off my credit card every two weeks. It's just that here in the states, they give you the option to mail a check, and though they charge less, clearly it just takes longer.



Am I ill? I ask because, I really don't see an end of the word scenario playing out and don't see hyper inflation coming either ... but I just love having the stuff lol!!


Rather than calling myself ill or a bad investor, I think I'll call it a hobby/collection thing - to justify it to myself :D.
Click to expand...

You have incurred "total costs" of $1536.05 for 85oz silver including CC charges! it sort of reads like your CC charges were $1536.05 lol

Hobby stackers like myself end up paying way more for small amounts of silver and gold due to shipping costs on small buys anyway but your $ cost average is already very high given it doesnt include any of your high premium silver or coins.

Can you not use paypal with online bullion dealers in us?

The biggest problem with your $ cost average of $18.07 is that many stackers would have already sold off before it reached $18us so it could be harder to sell your generic at above $18us.

You would be better off buying less volume premium silver in the hope of future premium increases rather than mostly generic at such high cost.

If you are buying silver on credit you are doing it wrong in my opinion even though you pay the card before interest charges. Credit cards are a trap and should only be used for a convenience knowing you already have your own funds available to purchase outright. :)
 
fishtaco said:
Can you not use paypal with online bullion dealers in us?
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Not everyone has a paypal account.

US dealers offer a variety of methods to pay, including paypal. I normally use Provident Metals to make my purchases and I admit that I have used credit cards in the past. I like their products and their support, but their processing of orders is a nightmare in my opinion. My last order, made exactly a week ago, was via eCheck. That automatically invoked a 4 day minimum waiting period, but at least it did have the 4% discount. Even paying by credit cards resulted in delays of upwards of 4 days before they shipped. Because of that I'm seriously thinking of trying Apmex for my next order to see if they handle shipping in a more speedy manner.

Apmex claims to ship from stock, I'm not so sure Provident is shipping from stock.

-bob
 
Welcome to the SS forum Stack'n Oz's.

It is refreshing to see the kind of unabashed honesty that you have shown.


So, I'd say you are not ill....maybe just addicted to silver like so many of us here.


Some of us were buying silver when it was about US$35 an ounce....just a few short years ago (mainly because we didn't know better at the time). That you are buying at under US$15.......well, consider yourself very fortunate compared to those who were paying nearly 3 times that amount for the same oz of silver.


Investing money into buying silver products so that you can turn a profit in the short term is possible, but you either have to really know the market very well or you have to be very lucky. In addition to that, you have to be a really sharp shopper (avoid having to pay sales tax, VAT, or any other type of surcharges, look for free shipping and lower premiums than the stackers/coin buyers around you) and it helps immensely if you are buying larger quantities of the same product at a time rather than small quantities or piecemeal. That's because volume purchasing almost always comes with lower prices.

If one is interested in flipping coins for a profit and if one is new to stacking, it may not work out so well for a while until the new stacker gains (considerably) more knowledge and understanding of the market. Oh, timing is really important too. If one got into silver when spot was under US$18, then that timing works out much better than if one got in when silver spot was much higher.


But regardless of short or long term profit that may or may not be made by buying piecemeal or small quantities, there's nothing wrong with liking and enjoying some or many of the silver products you are buying. Collecting can be enjoyable and with some products, the design is really quite extraordinary. Eventually you may get into buying old(er) coins or medals which may not only be aesthetically wonderful but because of their age, are marvel worthy. If you don't care much or at all about the type of silver you are buying and are only interested in the value of the metal, then I'd suggest you consider buying the lowest premium blobs (non-denominated, generic, common bars or rounds) and don't even bother with any coins.


Bottom line: learn as much as you can from various people / source, try to know why you are buying (set a goal), and then try to formulate a strategy that matches that goal.



I like polished silver....it's shiny.



.
 
Stack'n Oz's said:
So I have only been "stacking" bars since Feb; if 85 Troy Oz's in less than a month can be called stacking? This doesn't include any of the high premium coins I bought "just to have."

I have bought when spot was as low as $14.95, and as high as $15.75. I have used my credit card on each purchase and incurred costs of $1,536.05.

Therefore, I need Spot to hit $18.07 just to breakeven.


Clearly buying physical silver, especially with a credit card is a horrible "investment." But I am still going to buy, and buy with my credit card so it gets here quicker... I think I'm ill!! FYI - I pay off my credit card every two weeks. It's just that here in the states, they give you the option to mail a check, and though they charge less, clearly it just takes longer.



Am I ill? I ask because, I really don't see an end of the word scenario playing out and don't see hyper inflation coming either ... but I just love having the stuff lol!!


Rather than calling myself ill or a bad investor, I think I'll call it a hobby/collection thing - to justify it to myself :D.
Click to expand...

Why is it $18.07 to break even? Are there fees from your credit card even though you are paying it off every two weeks? Or are you buying stuff with a high premium? I just wish you luck none the less. I myself do not buy anything that I can not resell on eBay and make a decent profit, however I live in a large metropolitan area and have good relationships with local LCS's to get stuff at great prices. All a side, if it makes you feel good and gives you a high, will shoot you only live once and hopefully someday we will see prices beyond $18. Its better than charging crack on your CC as many folks do, just do north of me do :-).
 
Try investing in the stock market.. you can lose 1700 in a day! or an hour with leverage.. Physical silver great.. lets discuss high interest rates on credit cards and the credit trap.
 
I think I'm confusing some here:

AUSTRALIA (I don't know if this is the norm or not - but from the comments - I think it might be):

I noticed it on the Perth Bullion site right away: http://www.perthbullion.com/shop/detail/pmsbo10/

Prices depend on quantity only. NOT on HOW you pay.

I can't post pictures yet, so I'll just say that as of this writing via the link above; a 10 oz Perth Mint bar costs $232.03 AUD or $175.47USD. That's it - shipping is extra.

Right now Spot is $15.48 USD /oz. Therefore, I effectively would have lost $2.01/oz not including shipping upon purchase.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
USA:

OK - so lets try that via a US vendor. AMPEX: Same bar: http://www.apmex.com/product/59484/10-oz-silver-bar-perth-mint

Now were I to buy the same one bar, I would have two options with two very different prices.

- Option one would be to use my credit card or PayPal, in which case I would pay $199.16 USD and therefore be paying ~ $4.44/oz for the honor of buying. It usually ships the next day if you do it that way and is at your door in about 3 days.

- Option two could see me use a check or money order in which case I would realize a cost of $191.50 USD ... $3.67 over spot. BUT it takes forever for the transaction to take place. The price is locked in, but you'll be waiting for at least a week for the transaction to take place if you are buying little amounts.

There is no option for a debit card that pulls from your savings or checking account.
(Note AUS Silver is expensive here)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So yeah - if buying physical silver, not including shipping, and assuming the price stays roughly the same, I'm losing right out of the gate. LIke I said, I haven't been buying for long, and prices haven't gone up. So I am in the hole. So would anyone unless they were buying less than spot in which case, I would encourage that they buy large and sell quick lol.

As for the credit card - I don't know how you guys do credit cards, but I get to buy stuff on mine for a month sans interest, and if I pay within the month, I'll not get charged. That's what I do - I pay it off each month. Don't see how that means I don't own my silver but whatever lol.

Anyway - hope that clears that up.
 
What you are assuming though is that once you buy a bar the resell is just spot. After you buy silver the majority of the premium over spot is still there in the bar as long as it is in good condition.
 
Stack'n Oz's said:
I think I'm confusing some here:

AUSTRALIA (I don't know if this is the norm or not - but from the comments - I think it might be):

I noticed it on the Perth Bullion site right away: http://www.perthbullion.com/shop/detail/pmsbo10/

Prices depend on quantity only. NOT on HOW you pay.

I can't post pictures yet, so I'll just say that as of this writing via the link above; a 10 oz Perth Mint bar costs $232.03 AUD or $175.47USD. That's it - shipping is extra.

Right now Spot is $15.48 USD /oz. Therefore, I effectively would have lost $2.01/oz not including shipping upon purchase.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
USA:

OK - so lets try that via a US vendor. AMPEX: Same bar: http://www.apmex.com/product/59484/10-oz-silver-bar-perth-mint

Now were I to buy the same one bar, I would have two options with two very different prices.

- Option one would be to use my credit card or PayPal, in which case I would pay $199.16 USD and therefore be paying ~ $4.44/oz for the honor of buying. It usually ships the next day if you do it that way and is at your door in about 3 days.

- Option two could see me use a check or money order in which case I would realize a cost of $191.50 USD ... $3.67 over spot. BUT it takes forever for the transaction to take place. The price is locked in, but you'll be waiting for at least a week for the transaction to take place if you are buying little amounts.

There is no option for a debit card that pulls from your savings or checking account.
(Note AUS Silver is expensive here)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So yeah - if buying physical silver, not including shipping, and assuming the price stays roughly the same, I'm losing right out of the gate. LIke I said, I haven't been buying for long, and prices haven't gone up. So I am in the hole. So would anyone unless they were buying less than spot in which case, I would encourage that they buy large and sell quick lol.

As for the credit card - I don't know how you guys do credit cards, but I get to buy stuff on mine for a month sans interest, and if I pay within the month, I'll not get charged. That's what I do - I pay it off each month. Don't see how that means I don't own my silver but whatever lol.

Anyway - hope that clears that up.
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In Australia we usually get 55 days interest free on CC purchases but immediate interest charges on cash advance. Credit card and paypal purchases usually incur a fee and of of up to 3%


very rarely will we get silver at spot price, what the dealers charge in premium is how they run a profitable business so how you sell your silver is with premium also added.

In SS trade section you will find silver for sale between members at below dealer cost but not much less and rarely at spot price price because they too need to recoup the premium they paid at the least.

If you can afford to buy in bulk it saves both on premium and shipping costs.

I personally am not ready to commit to large silver buys so I have to contend with higher premium for small buys which involves more frequent shipping costs.

If I purchased all my silver over a year in one buy my $ cost average would be much lower than it is but I am not willing to commit. :)

I dont think members are suggesting you dont own your silver by using a CC but buying silver becomes a bit of an addiction to some and it would become quite easy to over extend on those CC silver purchases in a belief spot is going up but in reality it leaves them paying out interest or dead money on a whim. :)
 
Stack'n Oz's said:
I think I'm confusing some here:

AUSTRALIA (I don't know if this is the norm or not - but from the comments - I think it might be):

I noticed it on the Perth Bullion site right away: http://www.perthbullion.com/shop/detail/pmsbo10/

Prices depend on quantity only. NOT on HOW you pay.

I can't post pictures yet, so I'll just say that as of this writing via the link above; a 10 oz Perth Mint bar costs $232.03 AUD or $175.47USD. That's it - shipping is extra.

Right now Spot is $15.48 USD /oz. Therefore, I effectively would have lost $2.01/oz not including shipping upon purchase.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
USA:

OK - so lets try that via a US vendor. AMPEX: Same bar: http://www.apmex.com/product/59484/10-oz-silver-bar-perth-mint

Now were I to buy the same one bar, I would have two options with two very different prices.

- Option one would be to use my credit card or PayPal, in which case I would pay $199.16 USD and therefore be paying ~ $4.44/oz for the honor of buying. It usually ships the next day if you do it that way and is at your door in about 3 days.

- Option two could see me use a check or money order in which case I would realize a cost of $191.50 USD ... $3.67 over spot. BUT it takes forever for the transaction to take place. The price is locked in, but you'll be waiting for at least a week for the transaction to take place if you are buying little amounts.

There is no option for a debit card that pulls from your savings or checking account.
(Note AUS Silver is expensive here)

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So yeah - if buying physical silver, not including shipping, and assuming the price stays roughly the same, I'm losing right out of the gate. LIke I said, I haven't been buying for long, and prices haven't gone up. So I am in the hole. So would anyone unless they were buying less than spot in which case, I would encourage that they buy large and sell quick lol.

As for the credit card - I don't know how you guys do credit cards, but I get to buy stuff on mine for a month sans interest, and if I pay within the month, I'll not get charged. That's what I do - I pay it off each month. Don't see how that means I don't own my silver but whatever lol.

Anyway - hope that clears that up.
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Well I for one completely misunderstood your post.
You're going alright, I need a fair bit over US$19 just to break even since I've reigned in my average a fair bit, that's doesn't take into account the few bits n bobs I've previously sold at a loss. Haven't been too pedantic with record keeping I just want something to happen.

I want to see bloodshed. I want to see $100 silver or $1 silver, I don't care, I just want some action.
Stuff all that store of wealth BS, I want to be on that silver roller coaster ride we've all be promised. I want to be on that high powered jet boat that gets airborne and crashes into a ball of fire on re entry, zero survivors. But no, I find myself trapped with a round the world putt putt ticket on ss Steamboat fcking Willie.

So yes, you're quite ill to be in silver.
 
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