I don't wanna Stack, I wanna Trade...please help

S

SS

New Member
I have been stacking and it has been pretty simple enough... go to the store,buy, and stack. But now I wanna trade and it opens up a whole lot of stuff that I just don't understand. I don't want to lump around trading the physical stuff and the 'spread' is pretty high also.

Can someone suggests or link me to a related tread. Naturally, looking for a way to trade with the minimum spread and in AUD only as the banks charges for the conversion to USD. Maybe I am paranoid but i also don't like having my fiat in USD considering what happened to MF Global.

I have been thinking about the Perth mint certificates but the whole process is not as quick and i read that it can take up to 2 weeks for you to get your money when selling. I believe ABC has an option but is ABC safe?

Any thoughts would be good.

Many thanks
SS
 
If you don't want to stack, you haven't been stacking long enough.
Physical silver is the only real silver.. just my opinion.

In fact, I think someday physical will be the only silver...
 
DoolBrevlis said:
If you don't want to stack, you haven't been stacking long enough.
Physical silver is the only real silver.. just my opinion.

In fact, I think someday physical will be the only silver...
Click to expand...

+1 Totally agree with that statement, but I guess each to there own.
 
One possibility, but it takes a bit of time and effort:

Maintain your physical stack as the foundation.

Use CFD's to trade - they have small margins (high leverage), narrow spreads, can trade small(ish) lots (500oz), and all bank accounts are maintaned in $AUD.

Trade dips (hedge your stack) and use proceeds to add to your physical.

Trade breakouts (add to your stack when cash not available) and again use proceeds to add to your physical.

Works for me. My stack has grown faster than if I was just saving and adding physical by dollar cost averaging.
 
wrcmad said:
One possibility, but it takes a bit of time and effort:

Maintain your physical stack as the foundation.

Use CFD's to trade - they have small margins (high leverage), narrow spreads, can trade small(ish) lots (500oz), and all bank accounts are maintaned in $AUD.

Trade dips (hedge your stack) and use proceeds to add to your physical.

Trade breakouts (add to your stack when cash not available) and again use proceeds to add to your physical.

Works for me. My stack has grown faster than if I was just saving and adding physical by dollar cost averaging.
Click to expand...

What cfd do you trade?
Cheers
Peter
 
Thank you Wrcmad, I will look into IG Markets.

DoolBrevlis, thanks for your concern, but by any definition, I am a true stacker. I won't be selling any of my stacks until exit time. Just wanna trade my new fiats.

Nukz, thanks for mentioning ASX:ETPMAG , but I am a bit uncomfortable that its YTD return is negative while silver is positive 20%.
 
I tried to buy ETPMAG once but it told me I needed some certified documents registered with them first... is that normal?
 
grinners said:
I tried to buy ETPMAG once but it told me I needed some certified documents registered with them first... is that normal?
Click to expand...

ETPMAG is a call warrant, not a "share", so you would need to sign the appropriate documentation for warrant trading.
 
I've started trading GOLD on igmarkets recently and the reason i do that is that it has a 1% margin compared to silvers 5% margin. you can leverage yourself 5 times more and gold and silver do track pretty similarly at the moment.

the main advantage is that for the same margin amount if i CFD silver i'll need it to move 5 times more then gold when compared to margin the same amount in gold.

just my two cents.. worth.
 
wrcmad said:
One possibility, but it takes a bit of time and effort:

Maintain your physical stack as the foundation.

Use CFD's to trade - they have small margins (high leverage), narrow spreads, can trade small(ish) lots (500oz), and all bank accounts are maintaned in $AUD.

Trade dips (hedge your stack) and use proceeds to add to your physical.

Trade breakouts (add to your stack when cash not available) and again use proceeds to add to your physical.

Works for me. My stack has grown faster than if I was just saving and adding physical by dollar cost averaging.
Click to expand...

Like the sounds of all that. Is there a book or some reference I can read about to learn?
 
Nukz said:
I'm abit of a fan of ASX:ETPMAG...

very liquid and gives user a easy in/out strategy.
Click to expand...

Sorry guys - ETPMAG is just as vulnerable to manipulation as SLV is in the US, so caveat emptor there...

I've just read the thread and I'm wondering whether you had a plan before u started stacking?

I also get the impression that you've not been holding phys for very long and aren't used to moving sufficiently fast to take advantage of price volatility with confidence yet.

Stacking can become quite obsessive and it's wise to step back every now & again, regularly, and take stock.

Task stock of what you've bought, work out your average prices for items & then check against current spot.

Look to see where each format you hold sits in terms of premium to spot and if you're going to sell work out the best way to maximize your profit & minimize your selling costs.

It's very easy to get on the horse but also easy to fall off & take a kicking if you don't have a solid 'plan' in terms of what you want to achieve. Is it to build up a personal holding to sit on for the medium/long term? Are you aiming to provide yourself with pocket money or 'hobby' income as a sideline, or did you intend to get into the game full-time and be an active trader?

Whichever you choose you should use all the free tools at hand to help you, since losing money or timing sales & purchases badly can come back to bite you hard in the pocket.

Feel free to drop me a line if you want a soundboard - I'm happy to help if you're already committed (financially), but you have to have a handle on what you want to achieve from the outset.

:D
 
Terry88 said:
Like the sounds of all that. Is there a book or some reference I can read about to learn?
Click to expand...


There are thousands of different books on trading, but I don't know of one in particular on what I do. Trading is like stacking - there are a thousand different ways to go about it and everyone has a different opinion on which way is best. In the end, you have to find the way that suits you and your plan best. I know this is probably an unhelpful statement.

I traded shares, futures, options, warrants, CFD's in all sorts of markets for years before stacking was even a thought for me. So, over a long time, I developed a trading style and method that suited me. Learning to trade profitably cost me a bit in the beginning, but I consider it tutorial fees, and my mistakes taught me a lot. Probably the best thing you could do to get a start is attend some of the free trading seminars held by the brokerage houses, from there you could get an idea of what you want to do and which way you want to go. Like VRS says above, you have to have a plan of what you want to achieve before you can determine how to get there.
 
Hello VRS, thanks for your feedback. The physical stacks is to sit and hold. For obvious reasons I cannot say how much I have stacked.

Everyone has some form of cash flow and I like to use mine to trade silver. I believe silver will have another sets of roller coaster ride. I have not been stacking for that long but I cannot possibly see myself trading my physical. Gold...easy, silver...no way.

I cannot become a 'full-time' trader due to other commitments, but I would like to / need to get involve actively considering how much I am willing to commit financially.

I consider myself a compete newbie to trading. I like to learn about technical analyses. Where can I get drawing software and continuously updated charts to do this. I like to be confident enough to start using leverage. Some of these trading platform can give so much leverage that it is kinda scary. 1-5% margin requirement....that's scary. Playing with 20K with 1K or 2M with 100K or 10M with 500K. That's scary to me. A bit at a time...a bit at a time.

So, where can a complete newbie learn to be an active trader? Any thoughts will be great for all the newbies "traders" out there. I am all for stacking...that is the only way for silver to escape any manipulation.

But i would also like to learn to trade.

Many thanks for the feedback.
 
Having seen $600,000 turn into $4,000 over 6 months about 10 years ago I like to keep things simple. Margin calls still keep me from getting a good night's sleep, ten years on.
 
wow....that's why i would not use margin until i am absolutely confident about it. Afterall, the Hunt brothers when down due to margin call, and the May 11 smack down was also due to consecutive margin calls.

It is Ok, buddy, just keep going. It just happens that you have a 600K tuition fee which you are now sharing with us. As weird as it sounds, that my friend I thank you for. I just hope others can learn from this.
 
Hey Wrcmad, thanks for the advice.

If it is OK with everyone here, I like to use this thread as a learning platform. I am very sure newbies will find this helpful.

If anyone here has more experience (alot of people I assume) please feel free to join in.

One of my motto is to learn,practice, and teach. I hope the 'experienced' guys feel the same cause as you teach, the more you really know the stuff.

Can I start it off by knowing some of the terms?

1. PM lease rate.....the rate which the central bank charge for lending bullion banks their silver or gold. Some believe that the leased PM never gets paid back. As it gets 'leased' the central banks do not have to report it as a 'sale'. What I don't understand is how can it be -ve (currently -0.37%). If i want to lend you something I want a +ve return, not a -ve return.

2. Open Interest....I believe it is an open contract which has not been closed. Therefore the higher the OI, the more participant there is. Q: how can one know how many a shorts or how many are longs? I though that it would be the same, as when one is selling then another is buying, and vice versa. oh yeah, how can one get the OI numbers and what platform as we referring to?

thank you all in advance.
 
SS said:
wow....that's why i would not use margin until i am absolutely confident about it. Afterall, the Hunt brothers when down due to margin call, and the May 11 smack down was also due to consecutive margin calls.
Click to expand...

Trading successfully is all about risk management and not so much about always being right. If you expose yourself highly leveraged risk, expect to get burned quickly, because it only takes one bad trade to wipe you out.

Margin and leverage is a fantastic tool, but you need to use stop losses to protect yourself. You must have a risk management plan before you have a trading plan.

If you manage risk effectively, you can trade with positive expectancy on a 50% win:loss ratio. This way, with considered trades using the information at hand, you will come out a winner.
 
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