How long do you give a seller to make it right?

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anonmiss

Active Member
Silver Stacker
So I did a trade and the coins arived and they were not acceptable. Scratched milk marked damaged, me not happy. I contacted the seller and got the hey no problem will do a refund, or I have this this and this to sell you instead. Me....um no thanks just send me your address so I can return the coins and get a refund all square no problems.
Well that was 7 days, 6 PM's and one email ago and now I'm starting to get annoyed as I have had no response from them.
I have coins that are worth less, and the member seams to have gone AWOL.
Is there any way of telling if a member has been online even if they havn't posted? (the member has made a post the day after we agred to reverse the trade.)
How long till I suck it up, accept that I'm stuck with the crap coins and leave negative feedback?
 
Sorry to hear that Anon.

I think 1 week of trying to contact the guy is well and truly sufficient - they are obviously aware of the problem and have had ample opportunity to try and resolve it.
Instead of doing the right thing, they are hiding and avoiding communication. Sounds like time for some honest feedback.

On the plus side, looks like more spot coins at the next Adelaide meet ?? :rolleyes:
 
I'd give it two weeks and not stress so much about it.

Firstly you have something of value, even if it was to all go bad at this point you haven't been ripped off

Secondly I sometimes drop out of the internet for a week at a time because of real world responsibilities.

After that I'd consider it starting to get a bit sus and I'd likely do something a bit more public ....
 
Au-mageddon said:
Sorry to hear that Anon.

I think 1 week of trying to contact the guy is well and truly sufficient - they are obviously aware of the problem and have had ample opportunity to try and resolve it.
Instead of doing the right thing, they are hiding and avoiding communication. Sounds like time for some honest feedback.

On the plus side, looks like more spot coins at the next Adelaide meet ?? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yep theres always an up side to everthing, it just might not be an up side for me. :P
 
anonmiss said:
Is there any way of telling if a member has been online even if they havn't posted?
Click to expand...

Find any post they have made in any thread and look at their profile on the left.
One of the fields is 'Last Visit'. That will tell you when they last logged in.

Eg:
anonmiss
Silver Stacker
From: South Australia
Registered: 2011-09-24
Last Visit: Today
Posts: 453
Click to expand...
 
I'd say it depends on the terms you guys agreed to before the deal. You got your coins so you didn't get ripped off.

It depends on whether or not you were told they were BU condition or not.

If they just said flat out some silver etc. then you can expect culls, milk spots, scratches etc.

It's a matter of if he told you they were BU condition before the deal.

When I sell silver that's what I go by. Unless I told them it's BU then they should expect fingerprints,scratches etc.

Not everyone keeps their silver pretty looking.
 
needler420 said:
I'd say it depends on the terms you guys agreed to before the deal. You got your coins so you didn't get ripped off.

It depends on whether or not you were told they were BU condition or not.

If they just said flat out some silver etc. then you can expect culls, milk spots, scratches etc.

It's a matter of if he told you they were BU condition before the deal.

When I sell silver that's what I go by. Unless I told them it's BU then they should expect fingerprints,scratches etc.

Not everyone keeps their silver pretty looking.
Click to expand...


That would be a fair call but in the sales thread there were a list of 10 or more items, one was listed with imperfections and I choose not to buzz that one. If the seller knows enough about coins and trading to indicate the poor conditon of one of the coins then you would expect them to be consistant if the other coins had imperfections. It is misleading to say one coin is imperfect and keep mum about the condition of the others when they were also less than perfect (to put it politley).
 
Well I have to say that I REALLY LOVE THIS PLACE.
Had another stacker offer to help out sort out the confusion and thanks to their help its all now much clearer as to what has been going on behind the sceens. I'm confident that all will be resolved in the near future. I'm really glad I asked for some advice befor jumping in head first and leaving negative feedback when with a little help from a fellow stacker it's been able to be sorted out with no angst and no nastyness needed.
I look foward to resolving the final stages of the trade and would like to say a huge thank you to Eureka Moments for doing a little leg work that has helped put my mind at ease.
2639_clap.gif
EM!!!
 
needler420 said:
I'd say it depends on the terms you guys agreed to before the deal. You got your coins so you didn't get ripped off.

It depends on whether or not you were told they were BU condition or not.

If they just said flat out some silver etc. then you can expect culls, milk spots, scratches etc.

It's a matter of if he told you they were BU condition before the deal.

When I sell silver that's what I go by. Unless I told them it's BU then they should expect fingerprints,scratches etc.

Not everyone keeps their silver pretty looking.
Click to expand...

Interesting reply:rolleyes:

I'm familiar with the sales thred.

Putting it politely....when you ask for a premium on bullion.....you exspect a perfect coin
Once a bullion coin is damaged , in my opinion its only worth spot....hence that what I would sell / buy it for .
Also, as a stacker, there is an eliment of trust that we put in each other......ruine that trust and the sight may as well shut down.

Disclosure is everything........
 
Seller has agreed to refund as all fair dinkum sellers here will if a buyer is unhappy with goods, for whatever reason.

Last time I checked caveat emptor was still a good thing. Maybe ask for pics or confirm no crap spots or damage BEFORE confirming the sale. If unsure, move on, no transaction is compulsory.

A simple question or PM can save much angst and rooting around.

Cheers anonmiss, thanks for my first ever applauding smiley! ^^^ :D He better not let you down or Im gunna look like a real goose.
 
You do realize there is a grading process to coins. It's as much the buyers responsibility to inquire about the grade of coins as it is the sellers responsibility to legitimately state the correct condition.

Its just like other collectibles. A perfect example is comics which I'm in the hobby of.

Comics come in grades from poor, good ,fine ,very fine, Near mint same thing with coins.

You're giving the buyer too much credit for making a random purchase and not doing the research. Unless of course he did inquire and was lied to about the condition.

From wiki this is a guide to coin grading. Sadly half you blokes probably don't use it and some of you might not even know it. Unless you're using high res. pics you can't just ask does the coin look pretty?











Coin grading has evolved over the years to a system of finer and finer grade distinctions. Originally, there were only two grades, new and used.

This evolved for a time to the letter grading system beginning with the lowest grade Basal State (also Poor (PO)), then continuing Fair (Fr), About or Almost Good (AG), Good (G), Very Good (VG), Fine (F), Very Fine (VF), Extra Fine (EF or XF), Almost or About Uncirculated (AU), Uncirculated (Unc) and up to Brilliant Uncirculated (BU). Gem Uncirculated was roughly equivalent in usage to BU at that time.

The British grading system is similar, except that 'Good' and 'Very Good' are 'Poor' and 'Fair' respectively. The word 'Good' used to describe a coin under the British grading system is usually an indication that it is at the higher end of its grading classification, e.g. a 'Good Fine' coin will be in a better condition than a coin that is merely 'Fine'.
 
Coin grading doesn't apply to only numismatics. It still applies to bullion coins. I knew there would be a guy coming in saying " but there not numismatists.

If you care and want a so called "premium" you better understand coin grading regardless if bullion or numismatic.


FYI when you buy bullion online many reputable dealers list the grade on bullion coins. Specially since many dealers sell culls.

It's called Due diligence. It's on both parties to be aware of the product they are selling/buying.


If someone on a random forum said I want to buy a few ounces of silver with no more info and then they paypal me, Well I sure ain't going to pull out my best looking coins. They're going to purposely get my worst looking coins.
 
needler420 said:
It's as much the buyers responsibility to inquire about the grade of coins as it is the sellers responsibility to legitimately state the correct condition.
Click to expand...

One of the things about having a national bullion mint that distributes each coin in an individual plastic capsule is that we're used to seeing even second hand coins (and third hand and fourth) in BU UNC condition.

If you're selling, say, a 1oz Kookaburra with scratches on it, you do have a certain responsibility to tell potential buyers "Hey, I've taken this out of the capsule, touched it with KFC-fingers, dropped it behind the couch, rubbed it on the carpet trying to pick it up again", etc.

It depends how you'd usually find that particular kind of product in the market place.
 
Big A.D. said:
needler420 said:
It's as much the buyers responsibility to inquire about the grade of coins as it is the sellers responsibility to legitimately state the correct condition.
Click to expand...

One of the things about having a national bullion mint that distributes each coin in an individual plastic capsule is that we're used to seeing even second hand coins (and third hand and fourth) in BU UNC condition.

If you're selling, say, a 1oz Kookaburra with scratches on it, you do have a certain responsibility to tell potential buyers "Hey, I've taken this out of the capsule, touched it with KFC-fingers, dropped it behind the couch, rubbed it on the carpet trying to pick it up again", etc.

It depends how you'd usually find that particular kind of product in the market place.
Click to expand...


I agree that the seller has the responsibility to list condition correctly. My point is if the seller doesn't list the condition and the buyer doesn't take the responsibility to inquire about it himself, then who's fault is that? More so the buyers if you ask me. As the buyer has more to lose when it comes time to sell and collect a premium. Unless as stated if the seller lies about the condition then obviously that's fraudulent.

Also the capsule theory is not great either as mostly only the perth mint encapsulates their coins. Not that a capsule would make a difference. No matter what bullion it is if I'm buying I still ask questions like has it ever been touched or held with unprotected hands. Or a 10x more important question ask their opinion on the grade of the coin. A BU grade is pretty clear cut.

I actually just made a thread asking if changing a default capsule will deduct from the premium of not having an original capsule.

It's in the gold coin section and called 2011 gold kangaroo. Its called due diligence.

If I was buying something that I knew originally came in a capsule I still take the responsibility to ask myself, if you don't you run the risk of getting one that was taken out and very well could have been touched with KFC fingers. You put too much responsibility on the seller when as a buyer you should be clear and descriptive on the products you are buying. In this case either the buyer was lied to about the condition or since the seller didn't bother to list it, the buyer didn't bother to ask. Basically what I would call a blind buy/sale. I would say its equally both their faults.
 
needler420 said:
You do realize there is a grading process to coins. It's as much the buyers responsibility to inquire about the grade of coins as it is the sellers responsibility to legitimately state the correct condition.

Its just like other collectibles. A perfect example is comics which I'm in the hobby of.

Comics come in grades from poor, good ,fine ,very fine, Near mint same thing with coins.

You're giving the buyer too much credit for making a random purchase and not doing the research. Unless of course he did inquire and was lied to about the condition.

From wiki this is a guide to coin grading. Sadly half you blokes probably don't use it and some of you might not even know it. Unless you're using high res. pics you can't just ask does the coin look pretty?











Coin grading has evolved over the years to a system of finer and finer grade distinctions. Originally, there were only two grades, new and used.

This evolved for a time to the letter grading system beginning with the lowest grade Basal State (also Poor (PO)), then continuing Fair (Fr), About or Almost Good (AG), Good (G), Very Good (VG), Fine (F), Very Fine (VF), Extra Fine (EF or XF), Almost or About Uncirculated (AU), Uncirculated (Unc) and up to Brilliant Uncirculated (BU). Gem Uncirculated was roughly equivalent in usage to BU at that time.

The British grading system is similar, except that 'Good' and 'Very Good' are 'Poor' and 'Fair' respectively. The word 'Good' used to describe a coin under the British grading system is usually an indication that it is at the higher end of its grading classification, e.g. a 'Good Fine' coin will be in a better condition than a coin that is merely 'Fine'.
Click to expand...


You do realize that this is a private fourm where trading takes place amongst a small group of individuals and such trading is based on trust and intergetey. Reputation is everthing in this communtiny and in the time I have been hear I have sean fly by nighters try to make a quick buck and leave (or been banned) with their tail between their legs.
I did not want to jeopardize the reputation of a seller and asked the stacker community for some advice. Which I recived and am thankful for.

In relation to coin grading I see it is popular with the Panda collectors amongst us, other wise it semas to be a largley US based obsession.

If we are reduced to asking a 10 point check list, with photos and proof of grading for every coin or round we trade here the sprit of the Silver Stackers trading community can be decleared dead.
 
I'm not arguring with anything you say as I agree with it. All I'm saying is when dealing with precious metals is you have to do your due diligence.


I would also say when you purchase precious metals which is basically converting currencies fiat to precious metals. IMO that should be the perfect time for a 10 point check list and pictures.

What else is more important to have a 10 point check list with pictures when you're actually talking about your networth. Its literally the purchasing power to allow you to get whatever else it is you think should have a 10 point check list or pictures.

I can see maybe if you're only buying one ounce of silver that you wouldn't make a big deal but typically when dealing with precious metals you're dealing with big transactions. You use an example of just a few silver rounds. Well what about if it were a lot of silver rounds or something like an ounce of gold. You wouldn't buy blind.
 
The way deals go on here by the time you've done your 10 point check list, requested photos and gathered the relevant DNA evidence House will have already buzzed it. :P :D
 
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