What you are describing is crony capitalism.
How Global Debt Created Asset Bubbles & Inequality
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Jason1
Well-Known Member
U completely misunderstood what i wrote, as i was defending the "simple" (as referenced from mmm....shiny). So what you are saying doesn't make any sense directed at me. I suggest you re read what was written
Also a "highly educated Idiot" is still a idiot and is not what I'm referring to when i say "intellect"
what you said I some what agree with, as far as the system needs every one to work together and need each other, However your implication that Simple people are the ones doing the manual work because they aren't smart enough to come up with ideas
Is disrespectful and inaccurate. thats what Im saying.
There are many reasons why some one might be doing manual labour and its not always because they are simpletons. I dont like the idea of people looking down on some ones class and making out what they do is the work of a simpleton.
Especially often complex equipment is being used often equipment the so called smart guy at the top Likely couldn't operate or even figure out, there is smart people in pretty much most stages of the process from the top to the bottom, often there are even smarter guys at the bottom than there are at the top, and there Different sorts of smart. Simple is a bad word to have used which is what Im taking issue with.
If you replaced blue collar and white collar in place of simple and intellectual then your point is correct.
the part you quoted however was not directed at you if you read that again I had quoted some one else there, So yes that part doesn't have anything todo with what you said,
the first part I wrote which you didnt quote did however.
Sorry if that wasn't made clear in my first post.
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Yep, exponential progress once we got a handle on technology.
My private property point precedes that though, the move away from tribalism to feudalism to capitalism. Apart from the last 200 hundred years or so, our progress was painfully slow.
Jason1
Well-Known Member
"Someone with the risk appetite required to put their vision and intellect on the line in order to profit. You take away the the entrepreneur and those who you argue are the actual creators of wealth eg the workers, will be reduced to digging up spuds and feeding sparrows to their children, that's if their children survive past their 2nd birthday. Just as it was in the not-to-distant past"
No offense, but at least the worker could dig up spuds and has a chance, the guy at the top with out those workers would starve completely.
money flows up.
No offense, but at least the worker could dig up spuds and has a chance, the guy at the top with out those workers would starve completely.
money flows up.
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If money does indeed flow up, how does the wage earner get money then?
I didn't mean it to be disrespectful and i didn't mean it in that way. I was just using words that someone else already used, as i was directing what i had to say to them. I was going to use quotation "simple" to show it's not my view but rather quoting what they said. My mistake for assuming people will know what i was trying to express.
I by no means think people doing the low end jobs are simple and worthless, that's why i was defending it. I was just trying to express we need people of all areas.
Oh those evil business owners. They give us jobs and paychecks. How dare they hire employees to expand their businesses. Must be greed driving them!
There was nothing to defend.
Some people are incapable of earning a lot of money because they either have no talent or have a low intellect.
Nothing wrong with a rich business owner and there is nothing wrong with a business owner wanting to pay the lowest wage possible. There is also nothing wrong with a worker wanting to get paid the highest wage possible.
The issue is when business or workers use government or other means to force or manipulate their way onto others.
^ nailed it
I thought you would like that shiney
Jason1
Well-Known Member
Im not talking about them as Im a business owner. Im talking about those way way at the top.
And I damn well know and respect that with out the workers I have Ill be starving.
And I also know as a business owner and have seen there is a path that can lead you into a very large house quickly but the path is not ethical, never have I considered that path but have been presented with it.
You would be kidding your self to think that path is not there and that those guys way at the top haven't taken that option.
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You mean businesses like the federal reserve? Or the irs?
They use government against people everyday. You dont even have to work for them.
They use government against people everyday. You dont even have to work for them.
As @JohnnyBravo300 alluded to, there are two paths, the crony-capitalist path or the capitalist path. One is moral, the other is not.
Jason1
Well-Known Member
I know that and he is right, My point these days the first one is becoming the norm.
and they are draining the big money pond at every ones expense and its only making its way right to the top, and the tidbits thats trickling down is becoming less and less.
as I said from my first post on the subject, Im not against capitalism Its far better than other systems, But there is a group way at the top where they are ruining it via greed and its expanding.
Greed was always there, but its getting worse.
and as I said in other posts, These same people would thrive just as well in a socialist environment likely even better. It doesnt change the fact they are really messing up our system.
The free-market lost the battle as well as the hearts and minds of the majority of the population during the 20thC. Hopefully we'll win them back, but it will probably take some time and may hurt.
We need to create value where we can, and it begins with ourselves and our loved ones.
Edit to add: oh, and drink more beer. And have sex regularly.
Jim4silver
Well-Known Member
Hey look everyone, the EU is doing QE again and even DEEPER NEGATIVE interest rates.
But Trump is an idiot for wanting rates below 2.25%. But those Europeans, they are the cool kids. Nothing bad to say about them.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...timulus-package-qe-mario-draghi-business-live
That stupid Trump guy tweeted this:
Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)
European Central Bank, acting quickly, Cuts Rates 10 Basis Points. They are trying, and succeeding, in depreciating the Euro against the VERY strong Dollar, hurting U.S. exports.... And the Fed sits, and sits, and sits. They get paid to borrow money, while we are paying interest!
September 12, 2019
But Trump is an idiot for wanting rates below 2.25%. But those Europeans, they are the cool kids. Nothing bad to say about them.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...timulus-package-qe-mario-draghi-business-live
That stupid Trump guy tweeted this:
Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)
European Central Bank, acting quickly, Cuts Rates 10 Basis Points. They are trying, and succeeding, in depreciating the Euro against the VERY strong Dollar, hurting U.S. exports.... And the Fed sits, and sits, and sits. They get paid to borrow money, while we are paying interest!
September 12, 2019
I dont understand how we will ever find success and prosperity in imitating the biggest losers?
It's a basic lesson we all learn at young ages and applies to everything.
Trump is making big mistakes by caving on America's principles and it will make a pathetic legacy for him.
I wish it was different but he has made the call and its on him.
No matter how much we want it to be true, the rules of life dont change for anyone.
It's a basic lesson we all learn at young ages and applies to everything.
Trump is making big mistakes by caving on America's principles and it will make a pathetic legacy for him.
I wish it was different but he has made the call and its on him.
No matter how much we want it to be true, the rules of life dont change for anyone.
Jim4silver
Well-Known Member
That's like saying if another country comes to attack us, we should "turn the other cheek" and not fight back. Why should we be violent like they are? Let's set a good example and let them overtake us.
The US financial system, etc is already fully fooked. The only thing now is how much longer will it stay afloat before it dies? Nothing can save it.
By doing what all other modern countries are doing will keep us going longer than trying to be a stand up guy so to speak.
It's like having a very old dying person on life support. Why not cut off the life support and make the old guy go to the gym, it's for his own good?
The key is not to fulfill some idealized notion of what makes a country great, it is about being "greater" than all the others that exist. We might be in a bad way financially, but hopefully better than most others when the "Big One" hits.
inequality = Pareto Principle in real life.
in other words,
You can have equality of oppoturnities as much as you want,
but there's no such things as equality of outcomes. Or free lunch.
in other words,
You can have equality of oppoturnities as much as you want,
but there's no such things as equality of outcomes. Or free lunch.