How Did I do? My first crack at NGC and getting pandas Graded...look!

S

silverbulldog

New Member
How did I do guys and gals?

I picked a few of my Pandas and picked a few of my Dad's Pandas to have graded. The 1992 is my Dads and he paid $200 for the coin in OPM...with a MS-69 grade what kind of money am I looking at if I auction this coin off on e bay closing on a weekend night?

Thanks guys who have been at this for a long time.

To be honest I am quite disappointed that I got 2 MS67's.. I guess it really shows that I cannot distinguish the higher coin grades since I thought most of my coins were at minimum MS-68 but I was off.

Also what are my most valuable of the bunch?

001 2003 CHINA PANDA MIRRORED BAMBOO S10Y MS 68

002 2003 CHINA PANDA MIRRORED BAMBOO S10Y MS 68

003 2003 CHINA PANDA MIRRORED BAMBOO S10Y MS 69

004 2001D CHINA PANDA LARGE ""D"" S10Y MS 69

005 1998 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE S10Y MS 67

006 1996 CHINA PANDA SMALL DATE S10Y MS 68

007 1993 CHINA PANDA - FROSTED SMALL DATE S10Y MS 67

008 1989 CHINA PANDA S10Y MS 69

009 1992 CHINA PANDA LARGE DATE S10Y MS 69

thanks for your help.

silverbulldog
 
thanks Tamo I know your a panda Expert I have read some of your post on the cc and this forum! I was thinking the same thing. To bad the 1992 is my Dads...what do you think I would get for it in NGC MS69?

thanks worldbubble it helps me not hang my head over the 67's since I was not expecting those at all and those will probably be sold at a huge discount if I part with them anytime soon. I was hoping for at least 1 70 but I know most of the coins I sent in are harder to get 70's on than current year pandas and late 2000's pandas.
 
What I am more interested to know is the distinguishing marks between the grades.

- What size loupe did you use for inspection before sending them in
- Do your MS69 have ANY marks that you saw ie: 1 or 2, compared to your MS67 that may have a few 5-6 ?
- Is there a sharp edge such to show the quality of the strike, strong or soft etc...
- Is the rim clean with no marks, is the strike in the centre or off a little
- Did you send to CGC first or use that option at all
- Did you send any multiples or single batch
- Were the coins sent in OMP or did you remove them for inspection

I think pricing is what the market will pay and ebay is probably your best indicator, or use some of the other sites the reference pricing. What is beneficial I believe is being able to identify a MS69 as best you can before sending in. Hence sharing the knowledge.

The fact you sent them in is a good start.

Edit - Just out of curiosity why did you think you would get MS68 minimum ? No offense at all but had you had any previous experience or more gut feel etc... :)
 
Austacker said:
What I am more interested to know is the distinguishing marks between the grades.

- What size loupe did you use for inspection before sending them in
- Do your MS69 have ANY marks that you saw ie: 1 or 2, compared to your MS67 that may have a few 5-6 ?
- Is there a sharp edge such to show the quality of the strike, strong or soft etc...
- Is the rim clean with no marks, is the strike in the centre or off a little
- Did you send to CGC first or use that option at all
- Did you send any multiples or single batch
- Were the coins sent in OMP or did you remove them for inspection

I think pricing is what the market will pay and ebay is probably your best indicator, or use some of the other sites the reference pricing. What is beneficial I believe is being able to identify a MS69 as best you can before sending in. Hence sharing the knowledge.

The fact you sent them in is a good start.

Edit - Just out of curiosity why did you think you would get MS68 minimum ? No offense at all but had you had any previous experience or more gut feel etc... :)
Click to expand...

HI austacker,

the Loupe I use is a 10X Nikon
I also have a 5X Nikon big size magnifying glass with handle that I used

My MS 69's should have no marks at all.

I actually have not gotten my coins back I just got confirmation they shipped and saw my grades on my account.

All coins have no marks on Rims and every coin except the 1996 and 1993 was in OPM...the other two were in original capsules.

I can check the coins when they return to give you some better answers but I know for a fact none of the coins had more than 1 contact mark at most. Most of the coins looked flawless to the naked eye.

the only thing I can imagine that would bring down my grades would be luster.

Having said all that I find it much harder to evaluate grades when coins are double sealed...Its hard to tell if something is in between the plastic or actually on the coin.

My 1996 had some very cool Toning around the edge with blues and greens and purple colors so maybe that's why they gave me a MS68

I did see a contact Mark on my 1993 but I sent it in anyways because I dont have a 1993 graded higher than 67 and I thought it would at least be 68.

I would say it is not worth sending any coin that does not have very high luster almost proof like as well as a strong strike.

I know they grade conservatively but this lot was some of my best Panda's I own upon my own inspection.

I have more coins I will send in but I will be a lot more careful this 2nd time around with what I send in.

Also all 9 coins were shipped together.

I feel like I might have lost money or just broken even at best on what I thought was a killer batch of high grade coins.
 
thanks for your feeback first of all..to answer your last question I missed....

Just out of curiosity why did you think you would get MS68 minimum ? No offense at all but had you had any previous experience or more gut feel etc


To answer this question the reason I thought I had MS68 Minimum for all my coins is I could not find a single mark on any coin except the 1993.

Also I own a ton of graded coins by NGC and PCGS and I study Pandas and other Chinese coins I look at hundreds of coins per week online and zoom in on the pictures to compare grades and learn about them.

I have almost a full set of 10Yuan pandas by Date Graded except the 2000, 1999, 1994, & 1992 and all those coins I own are Graded.

I have another 40-50 Pandas in my collection that are Raw and I choose the best ones I could that were a bit older...

When I buy Pandas graded by NGC or PCGS I mainly by MS 69's so I know what they look like. I also have a few MS-68's in the better dates to fill spots in my collection when I was getting started.

btw I lived in Hong Kong before and now I live in the USA so I have a strong passion for Pandas and any Chinese or Asian Coins.

Silverbulldog
 
tamo42 said:
IIRC, NGC and PCGS both use 5x magnification when grading.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is what I learned as well.,,,I actually have a 3X, 5X, 10X, & 22X tools.

I started with a 22X when I did not know what I was doing.

Once I started looking at a lot of coins I started using the 3-5X ones since they do not give me a headache at the shows.

These are great for seeing most details....if you need to look for small details like doubling sometimes the 10x is nice.

thanks for adding to my thread Tamo!
 
Hey SB thanks a heap for your detailed response, it is with learning we can all gain from it. I have a lot still in OMP and have always been hesitant to send, due to cost and also my level of experience. While I am pretty confident I don't have a lot of the finer knowledge needed. I also want to keep some in OMP as I feel at some stage these will be worth more than MS67/68's so it is important to make sure only the best are sent in for grading.

I am sure once you see them back you can compare and see if it is more obvious or not ? Cheers
 
I think is better ncs first and later ngc it. Because you have better coins to grade. In all my grading (first ncs) i have only a one or two 67s. All 69s and a few 68s.
70 only in a pf and 2012 release search for stadistics here. You have my posts and yennus posts
 
For the 68 , 67 .
It is better to sell on board than trying to sell on ebay as the fees are way too high .
 
Austacker said:
Hey SB thanks a heap for your detailed response, it is with learning we can all gain from it. I have a lot still in OMP and have always been hesitant to send, due to cost and also my level of experience. While I am pretty confident I don't have a lot of the finer knowledge needed. I also want to keep some in OMP as I feel at some stage these will be worth more than MS67/68's so it is important to make sure only the best are sent in for grading.

I am sure once you see them back you can compare and see if it is more obvious or not ? Cheers
Click to expand...

I hear ya Austacker...

I feel the same way about OPM Pandas being worth more than MS67/MS68's. The problem with some years in OPM is they actually have damage from the capsules being too loose and rubbing against the high points. Take notes of all the 1989's and 1990's for example who have rubs on many of the Panda's heads. I guess my point is you really need to examine the coin through the packaging as best you can before buying any coins.

I struggled over what coins to send in for a while since I have many more opm Pandas as well. Some of my 1990's I think are very high grades with the deep mirror fields and frosty devices but I just did not want to ship them in OPM for fear of them getting damaged in transit by rubbing on the case inside the seal. Does anyone know other years aside from the 1989 and 1990 that get damaged while still in OPM because of the capsule?

Now I switch out some Raw coins in the old Capsules to the New 3 Prong Capsules or at least the new Rounded "Puffy" centered capsules.

I hope they come in today or else I will need to take a trip to my LCS just to keep my itch for coins under control.

any other feedback about my coins is appreciated guys!
 
Lim said:
For the 68 , 67 .
It is better to sell on board than trying to sell on ebay as the fees are way too high .
Click to expand...

your right...considering I will not make anything on those 67's and 68's Ill just keep them myself. I was only planning on selling anything If I got a 70 or on the 1998 or 2003 I got several 69's.

My grades only made me break even if I am lucky. The more I think about it this was more of a learning lesson than anything else. I am not making money off this lesson...here are some of the prices I paid for these coins

2003 Mirrored Bamboo - $ 150/each

1998 Silver Panda small date - $ 87-

1992 Silver Panda - $ 210-

2001 D Silver panda - $ 70-

1996 Silver Panda - $ 70-

1993 Silver Panda - $ 80-

1989 Silver Panda - $ 60-

As you can see I might have made money on the 1992 and 2001 and maybe a few bucks on the 1989 but that's about it. Is there anything I am missing here?

Silverbulldog
 
Has anybody seen other dates aside from 1989's and 1990's that get damage on the pandas head or any part of the coin because the capsules are too loose?

this makes it harder to buy OPM online since its tough to see any rubbing. One rub on the panda's head can take you from a MS69 or 70 down to a 66-67 in zero seconds flat.

make sure you really check coins out before buying..especially these two dates who can come in OPM and be damaged.

any light you pros can shed is appreciated
 
I got my coins back.

From my experience on getting these coins graded as well as graded coins I have purchased from ms67 all the way up to ms70 I believe a big part of the grade is luster or how deep mirrored the coins fields are.

Obviously contact marks and rubs will take away from a grade but the big part I overlooked was "Eye Appeal" or Luster.

If you want a MS69 or MS70 when you are sending coins in for grading the coin better have incredible Eye Appeal and high Luster with No contact marks whatsoever.

Good luck all you panda collectors.

The worst part is the 2 best grades and coins that are worth the most were the 2 coins out of the batch my Dad graded.

His coins were MS69's ...a 1992 and 2003 Mirrored bamboo both 69's.

my coins were all the lower grades from MS67-MS69
 
silverbulldog said:
Has anybody seen other dates aside from 1989's and 1990's that get damage on the pandas head or any part of the coin because the capsules are too loose?

this makes it harder to buy OPM online since its tough to see any rubbing. One rub on the panda's head can take you from a MS69 or 70 down to a 66-67 in zero seconds flat.

make sure you really check coins out before buying..especially these two dates who can come in OPM and be damaged.

any light you pros can shed is appreciated
Click to expand...


Not a pros ..but check out those 2003 pandas ms 69 on ebay .. Some had obvious rubs/contact mark on the head due to the capulse but still scoring a ms 69 :)
 
Lim said:
silverbulldog said:
Has anybody seen other dates aside from 1989's and 1990's that get damage on the pandas head or any part of the coin because the capsules are too loose?

this makes it harder to buy OPM online since its tough to see any rubbing. One rub on the panda's head can take you from a MS69 or 70 down to a 66-67 in zero seconds flat.

make sure you really check coins out before buying..especially these two dates who can come in OPM and be damaged.

any light you pros can shed is appreciated
Click to expand...


Not a pros ..but check out those 2003 pandas ms 69 on ebay .. Some had obvious rubs/contact mark on the head due to the capulse but still scoring a ms 69 :)
Click to expand...

I have noticed that some 2003's that I have looked at before have a rub on the head. The high point on the 2003 is definitely the very center of the forehead which usually will take away the most points for a mark right in the center of the coin. Neither of my 2003's had a rub and both have no contact marks so I don't understand why I would get two MS-68s.

The only reason I could see my 2003's coming back as MS-68 is because I did not conserve and they both have an even tone hue on the coins. They are not blast white but I have been told by many professional collectors that toning does not effect grade but I know the toning takes away from some of the eye appeal depending on the color so I think this is why I got MS68's on those two coins.

My Dads 2003 that got a MS69 was Blast White and a coin I personally picked for him. His coin was not better than mine just brighter and got a MS69. Kinda garbage since he does not need more money but I do and he sends in 1 coin and gets an MS69 and I send in two and get both MS68's.

I think the value of my coins actually went down or stayed where they were so not good...I lost money on both of those MS68's now unless I sit on them for a few years.

thanks LIM!

any other Panda collectors want to weigh in?
 
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