How can I support the local economy...

[Shaddam IV]

Don't forget though that Americans cannot buy items there for the same price that Australians can. Americans have to pay a state sales tax on top of the advertised prices which foreigners avoid so it is not quite as sweet as it appears for American buyers. American adverts and shop floor prices usually don't include sales tax.

 

[bordsilver]

It's a complex problem. A country with 23 million people at the bottom of the world now has the ability to shop directly from a low wage country with 300 million people that has much more buying power and where you can avoid local taxes. Can't blame people for taking the lower price. I would too for a margin that large. I guess that the eventual consequence is that so many businesses will close and lay off staff in Australia that a lot of people won't even be able to afford the USA price. You can't shop for cheap stuff on the web when you have no job.

Just to help clarify for you, the middle men don't actually do anything to improve our (ie Australia's) ability to pay for things. Instead they simply provide a service to other Australians that means that some of the flow of goods coming from overseas gets distributed to them as well.

The easiest way to think about this is to remember that if there's, say, a $100 item sold at retail domestically that can be purchased direct from overseas for, say $20, the other $80 is simply Australian-to-Australian bartering. All else equal, under both cases we are obtaining $20 of stuff from overseas and that is being paid irrespective of the middlemen within Australia. Instead of standing around retail stores all day to trade with other Australians to obtain a portion of the total flow of stuff, they could instead shine people's shoes, make gourmet dinners, clean up gardens etc etc. Our ability to pay for the foreign merchandise is (essentially) not affected by the "middlemen", it is affected by our exports and net wealth transfers from overseas.

 

[Court Jester]

when identical items can be bought and shipped to Oz for less than half the price?

Point in case - The starter motor and relay components on my motorbike went kaput. The genuine replacement parts in Oz was going to cost me $1150 !

I nearly fell off my chair when the bike shop was telling me this. They seemed almost embarrassed telling me. A quick check on a Oz website confirmed the Oz price - so it wasn't the bike shop trying to gouge me.

They told me i might like to see what else i could source. I agreed, and in than less than an hour had bought and paid for the identical genuine parts with express international shipping from good old US of A for $530 all up ($472 US).

Why would i waste my other $620? It seens my money would only have gone to a gouging local distributor.

Honestly why would I?

Any one know the answer to this (apart from supporting local jobs ra ra ra)?

sorry probably just ranting now, but interested in others views / perspectives.

Bill

It's a complex problem. A country with 23 million people at the bottom of the world now has the ability to shop directly from a low wage country with 300 million people that has much more buying power and where you can avoid local taxes. Can't blame people for taking the lower price. I would too for a margin that large. I guess that the eventual consequence is that so many businesses will close and lay off staff in Australia that a lot of people won't even be able to afford the USA price. You can't shop for cheap stuff on the web when you have no job.

Dont tell me Australian wages bla bla bla

There are items MANUFACTURED here and shipped to the USA, that you can buy cheaper there than here even though they are made here. ( Holden card and ADI gun powder )


What about software and digital downloads. Same servers, same load on the servers no local jobs or infrastructure used or needed but if you come in with an Australian IP you pay 50-100% more than the people in the USA.

Phones, food, fuel, internet, just about everything is cheaper over there.

 

[Court Jester]

Don't forget though that Americans cannot buy items there for the same price that Australians can. Americans have to pay a state sales tax on top of the advertised prices which foreigners avoid so it is not quite as sweet as it appears for American buyers. American adverts and shop floor prices usually don't include sales tax.

Yes but if Americans order online from stores in other states they also dont pay sales tax

 

[dccpa]

If it's something like $50 difference between buying here or abroad I'll happily buy here but in cases such as yours I wouldn't think twice. Or even about the local economy. Bad business telling you to look elsewhere. Should have said that if you waited a few weeks they could source it for $400 cheaper... Would have been better than losing your money altogether.

The Gov probably be upping the GST anyway to help exacerbate the issue

If the shop purchased overseas, that purchase might have violated an agreement they had with the manufacturer or distributor.

 

[Shaddam IV]

when identical items can be bought and shipped to Oz for less than half the price?

Point in case - The starter motor and relay components on my motorbike went kaput. The genuine replacement parts in Oz was going to cost me $1150 !

I nearly fell off my chair when the bike shop was telling me this. They seemed almost embarrassed telling me. A quick check on a Oz website confirmed the Oz price - so it wasn't the bike shop trying to gouge me.

They told me i might like to see what else i could source. I agreed, and in than less than an hour had bought and paid for the identical genuine parts with express international shipping from good old US of A for $530 all up ($472 US).

Why would i waste my other $620? It seens my money would only have gone to a gouging local distributor.

Honestly why would I?

Any one know the answer to this (apart from supporting local jobs ra ra ra)?

sorry probably just ranting now, but interested in others views / perspectives.

Bill

It's a complex problem. A country with 23 million people at the bottom of the world now has the ability to shop directly from a low wage country with 300 million people that has much more buying power and where you can avoid local taxes. Can't blame people for taking the lower price. I would too for a margin that large. I guess that the eventual consequence is that so many businesses will close and lay off staff in Australia that a lot of people won't even be able to afford the USA price. You can't shop for cheap stuff on the web when you have no job.

Dont tell me Australian wages bla bla bla

What are you talking about?

 

[Shaddam IV]

It's a complex problem. A country with 23 million people at the bottom of the world now has the ability to shop directly from a low wage country with 300 million people that has much more buying power and where you can avoid local taxes. Can't blame people for taking the lower price. I would too for a margin that large. I guess that the eventual consequence is that so many businesses will close and lay off staff in Australia that a lot of people won't even be able to afford the USA price. You can't shop for cheap stuff on the web when you have no job.

Just to help clarify for you, the middle men don't actually do anything to improve our (ie Australia's) ability to pay for things. Instead they simply provide a service to other Australians that means that some of the flow of goods coming from overseas gets distributed to them as well.

The easiest way to think about this is to remember that if there's, say, a $100 item sold at retail domestically that can be purchased direct from overseas for, say $20, the other $80 is simply Australian-to-Australian bartering. All else equal, under both cases we are obtaining $20 of stuff from overseas and that is being paid irrespective of the middlemen within Australia. Instead of standing around retail stores all day to trade with other Australians to obtain a portion of the total flow of stuff, they could instead shine people's shoes, make gourmet dinners, clean up gardens etc etc. Our ability to pay for the foreign merchandise is (essentially) not affected by the "middlemen", it is affected by our exports and net wealth transfers from overseas.

Yes, I understand about the wholesale layer being middle men. However many manufacturers will not sell to retail stores directly due to quantities being too small. Also with electrical goods as soon as a retailer imports an item without a C Tick they are regarded as an importer and must do compliance certification for conducted and radiated emissions and electrical safety. Even for one item. As much as I dislike wholesalers retail shops cannot realistically import many many things in small quantities.

No country ever has existed or will exist by simply by-passing it's own commerce systems for physical goods and having every citizen buy all of their non-perishables from abroad and having them posted in on an individual basis from cheaper countries. If the majority of retailers simply close life would be really shitty if you have to order everything that you need every time from the other side of the world.

 

[renovator]

It's a complex problem. A country with 23 million people at the bottom of the world now has the ability to shop directly from a low wage country with 300 million people that has much more buying power and where you can avoid local taxes. Can't blame people for taking the lower price. I would too for a margin that large. I guess that the eventual consequence is that so many businesses will close and lay off staff in Australia that a lot of people won't even be able to afford the USA price. You can't shop for cheap stuff on the web when you have no job.

Just to help clarify for you, the middle men don't actually do anything to improve our (ie Australia's) ability to pay for things. Instead they simply provide a service to other Australians that means that some of the flow of goods coming from overseas gets distributed to them as well.

The easiest way to think about this is to remember that if there's, say, a $100 item sold at retail domestically that can be purchased direct from overseas for, say $20, the other $80 is simply Australian-to-Australian bartering. All else equal, under both cases we are obtaining $20 of stuff from overseas and that is being paid irrespective of the middlemen within Australia. Instead of standing around retail stores all day to trade with other Australians to obtain a portion of the total flow of stuff, they could instead shine people's shoes, make gourmet dinners, clean up gardens etc etc. Our ability to pay for the foreign merchandise is (essentially) not affected by the "middlemen", it is affected by our exports and net wealth transfers from overseas.

Yes, I understand about the wholesale layer being middle men. However many manufacturers will not sell to retail stores directly due to quantities being too small. Also with electrical goods as soon as a retailer imports an item without a C Tick they are regarded as an importer and must do compliance certification for conducted and radiated emissions and electrical safety. Even for one item. As much as I dislike wholesalers retail shops cannot realistically import many many things in small quantities.

No country ever has existed or will exist by simply by-passing it's own commerce systems for physical goods and having every citizen buy all of their non-perishables from abroad and having them posted in on an individual basis from cheaper countries. If the majority of retailers simply close life would be really shitty if you have to order everything that you need every time from the other side of the world.

I doubt the australian retail industry is going to fall in a heap anytime soon .
What we are talking about is the blatant overcharging through sheer greed . .
I think a lot of businesses just say ok every product we sell has to have X% markup . Any good business model wont work that way its swings & roundabouts ...sure you can make 100% markup on chinese goods but you cant put the same markup on a japanese /US/german/taiwanese product & need to adjust your markup accordingly to suit the market . While theres the bullshit we have now in small businesses people will shop OS.
Most of the examples on this thread the wholesale price has no correlation to the retail price & are the reasons we send our money offshore & dont spend it in oz unfortunately .

 

[bordsilver]

It's a complex problem. A country with 23 million people at the bottom of the world now has the ability to shop directly from a low wage country with 300 million people that has much more buying power and where you can avoid local taxes. Can't blame people for taking the lower price. I would too for a margin that large. I guess that the eventual consequence is that so many businesses will close and lay off staff in Australia that a lot of people won't even be able to afford the USA price. You can't shop for cheap stuff on the web when you have no job.

Just to help clarify for you, the middle men don't actually do anything to improve our (ie Australia's) ability to pay for things. Instead they simply provide a service to other Australians that means that some of the flow of goods coming from overseas gets distributed to them as well.

The easiest way to think about this is to remember that if there's, say, a $100 item sold at retail domestically that can be purchased direct from overseas for, say $20, the other $80 is simply Australian-to-Australian bartering. All else equal, under both cases we are obtaining $20 of stuff from overseas and that is being paid irrespective of the middlemen within Australia. Instead of standing around retail stores all day to trade with other Australians to obtain a portion of the total flow of stuff, they could instead shine people's shoes, make gourmet dinners, clean up gardens etc etc. Our ability to pay for the foreign merchandise is (essentially) not affected by the "middlemen", it is affected by our exports and net wealth transfers from overseas.

Yes, I understand about the wholesale layer being middle men. However many manufacturers will not sell to retail stores directly due to quantities being too small. Also with electrical goods as soon as a retailer imports an item without a C Tick they are regarded as an importer and must do compliance certification for conducted and radiated emissions and electrical safety. Even for one item. As much as I dislike wholesalers retail shops cannot realistically import many many things in small quantities.

No country ever has existed or will exist by simply by-passing it's own commerce systems for physical goods and having every citizen buy all of their non-perishables from abroad and having them posted in on an individual basis from cheaper countries. If the majority of retailers simply close life would be really shitty if you have to order everything that you need every time from the other side of the world.

The point is that the middlemen have no bearing on our ability to pay. Every single one could be unemployed tomorrow and it won't change our ability to import the $20 of stuff. The other $80 is about distributing a portion of the ship loads of stuff to the middlemen themselves by them providing services to the people who are actually paying for the flow.

 

[Midnight Man]

Don't forget though that Americans cannot buy items there for the same price that Australians can. Americans have to pay a state sales tax on top of the advertised prices which foreigners avoid so it is not quite as sweet as it appears for American buyers. American adverts and shop floor prices usually don't include sales tax.

Couple of points - if the goods cross state lines, then sales tax doesn't apply for US purchasers either, as far as I know, and then consider that they pay considerably less shipping than we do (or, perhaps, better to say, the difference in shipping often accounts for the additional sales tax).

 

[Billythekid]

If it's something like $50 difference between buying here or abroad I'll happily buy here but in cases such as yours I wouldn't think twice. Or even about the local economy. Bad business telling you to look elsewhere. Should have said that if you waited a few weeks they could source it for $400 cheaper... Would have been better than losing your money altogether.

The Gov probably be upping the GST anyway to help exacerbate the issue

I'm the same, if it is only a little bit of a price difference i will always buy local, First choice at a town level, then my capital city/State, then Australia. When it is so much of a price difference though, I think it is a no brainer.

In the long run though I know this method of purchasing will only be bad for Australia and its prosperity.

Oh well.

Bill

 

[mmm....shiney!]

If it's something like $50 difference between buying here or abroad I'll happily buy here but in cases such as yours I wouldn't think twice. Or even about the local economy. Bad business telling you to look elsewhere. Should have said that if you waited a few weeks they could source it for $400 cheaper... Would have been better than losing your money altogether.

The Gov probably be upping the GST anyway to help exacerbate the issue

I'm the same, if it is only a little bit of a price difference i will always buy local, First choice at a town level, then my capital city/State, then Australia. When it is so much of a price difference though, I think it is a no brainer.

In the long run though I know this method of purchasing will only be bad for Australia and its prosperity.

Oh well.

Bill

If you really want to support the local economy, all you have to do is find your best price for something, then approach a local dealer and ask them if they can match it (incl delivery). It is a very simple process.

 

[hawkeye]

If it's something like $50 difference between buying here or abroad I'll happily buy here but in cases such as yours I wouldn't think twice. Or even about the local economy. Bad business telling you to look elsewhere. Should have said that if you waited a few weeks they could source it for $400 cheaper... Would have been better than losing your money altogether.

The Gov probably be upping the GST anyway to help exacerbate the issue

I'm the same, if it is only a little bit of a price difference i will always buy local, First choice at a town level, then my capital city/State, then Australia. When it is so much of a price difference though, I think it is a no brainer.

In the long run though I know this method of purchasing will only be bad for Australia and its prosperity.

Oh well.

Bill

You need to read through what people have said in this thread a bit more closely I think. It sounds like you are still falling for the propaganda. Getting the best deal you can is not going to cause damage to the Australian economy or the prosperity of the country. The global market is evolving. Participants in the Australian market need to evolve to match it or they will die. A few personal choices that you make will have an effect on that so close to zero it is irrelevant. It's like deluding yourself that your vote in a Federal election has an effect on the outcome.

 

[Shaddam IV]

If it's something like $50 difference between buying here or abroad I'll happily buy here but in cases such as yours I wouldn't think twice. Or even about the local economy. Bad business telling you to look elsewhere. Should have said that if you waited a few weeks they could source it for $400 cheaper... Would have been better than losing your money altogether.

The Gov probably be upping the GST anyway to help exacerbate the issue

I'm the same, if it is only a little bit of a price difference i will always buy local, First choice at a town level, then my capital city/State, then Australia. When it is so much of a price difference though, I think it is a no brainer.

In the long run though I know this method of purchasing will only be bad for Australia and its prosperity.

Oh well.

Bill

Participants in the Australian market need to evolve to match it or they will die.

They are. Australian consumers are choosing to bypass expensive Australian businesses that they feel that they are being ripped off by and purchasing their goods from overseas. Australian businesses are responding by choosing to bypass expensive Australian staff that they feel that they are being ripped off by and purchasing their labour and goods from overseas.

 

[bordsilver]

Participants in the Australian market need to evolve to match it or they will die.

They are. Australian consumers are choosing to bypass expensive Australian businesses that they feel that they are being ripped off by and purchasing their goods from overseas. Australian businesses are responding by choosing to bypass expensive Australian staff that they feel that they are being ripped off by and purchasing their labour and goods from overseas.

It's called productivity improvement and associated structural adjustment, which, you know, is a good thing overall (even if the poor buggy whip manufacturer has to find a new job).