Home Safes - DON'T.

[goldpelican]

MIL is home. She has lost her nose, and the right hand side of her face is a mess of stitches and grafts. Got some more plastic surgery scheduled.

I did find out some more details of the attack. She was on a "socialisation" visit with her own dog, a 10mo lab cross, and it was a regular visit to the neighbours for the dogs to socialise - it wasn't a first or second visit, it was something like the 30th visit, so the other dog was familiar with her presence. The dog is 18mo, and from a pedigree line - the owner was intending to use it for stud purposes. Walked every day to a local park to interact with other dogs, plus my MIL's visits every second day.

My MIL bent down to interact with her own dog while the two were playing, and the shepherd reacted out of the blue in a split second, and knocked her unconscious from the impact when it bit her on the face - it was a pretty ferocious hit.

Apparently the dog had one prior incident, which was nipping the 11yo daughter on the hand, but no blood drawn - not sure how old the dog was when that happened.

So actively socialised, pedigree dog in a family home. I don't think it was a case of bad owners - I think it was just a c*** of a dog that showed its true colours.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread when the discussion was focused on the use of dogs in the home as a security measure, I've basically been a dog owner for 40 years, much of that in a rural setting where a lot of dogs pass through, with dogs grown from birth to working status from the same litter. Like people, IMO some dogs are just arseholes.

 

[hihosilver]

Sorry, but I'm reading between the lines here that you maybe another "oh, my dog has never done that before...."

Sorry but you weren't reading between the lines, you were making huge assumptions and then basing your argument on those assumptions.

you maybe another "oh, my dog has never done that before...." by default in your passage you seem to be fully aware of the damage your dog can inflict on another "fluff" ball of a dog but also any humans nearby so, that in it self screams to me that your dog is a dog that would attack at will ! :/

What I AM fully aware of is that I have a large male Rottweiler and even people who own dogs let alone people that don't like dogs are intimidated just by his appearance, having one off leash would scare the crap out of almost anyone. Also we regularly see other dogs off leash and if my dog was off leash there's a big risk of them running onto the road while playing. My keeping him on leash is part of being a responsible owner and not wanting to make people uncomfortable and also to avoid a potential traffic hazard. Nothing to do with "me being aware of the damage my dog can inflict".

We always go to this fully fenced park often where my Rottie gets to interact with these fluff balls off leash and you know what happens? They chase each other around for a while and then my Rottie ends up rolling around on his back with the little dog jumping all over him. Any humans near by will get slimed on. I know for a fact that no one will be "attacked at will". Once again, all assumptions.

See, your Rottweiler (German Shepherds, Bull Terrier(s), bull dogs, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, included) will always feel the need to enforce their position in the dog hierarchy and you will not stop it.

It is true that these large working breeds are naturally quite dominant (never did I argue otherwise) but in saying that, as I mentioned before, thats where socialization and continued training for the life of the dog comes into play.

Yes you raised it from a pup when it licked you to death but would you leave that same dog near anyone else but yourself???

Yes I would and I have many times before with no troubles what so ever. With strangers? hell no but I wouldn't leave my kids with strangers either.

I've had this same conversation for many years with many of my friends who are dog lovers and I absolutely love how they change their minds when they have kids. Suddenly, it's "oh, you were so right" where can I get rid of it? when they have had a close miss.

What breeds were they and how was their dog selected/raised/trained?

BTW, even a collie will attack if put in a situation. As a kid I was attacked by our very much loved collie and was in hospital for 8 weeks nearly loosing my eye so, don't be fooled by the breed of the dog and remember they are animals not humans like some people think

Thats a point I always try to make to people that point the finger at these large breed dogs and paint them as 'aggressive breeds'. It is actually ALL dogs that can potentially be agressive. Its just that larger breeds are able to do more damage so thats why you NEED to be on top of things with them. Problem is most people fail in that capacity. Here we are in agreement so theres no argument there.

but when you have an attack dog as a pet be very aware

A rottweiler is not an attack dog unless it was trained specifically to do so. It is a working dog first and foremost.

therefore the temperament of that dog doesn't make any difference because it's in the genes and you can not breed it out.

Based on an assumption but I'll bite anyway.

No, its not in its genes. My dogs breeder follows a strict code of ethics and selects the sire and dam carefully based on their physical conformation and temperament in accordance with the breed standard. This process has been done for many generations from a long line of proven Rottweilers both in the working and show capacity. Any aggressiveness will only come due to a genetic anomaly and is quickly weeded out. Those dogs are never made available to homes and definitely not suitable to breed. But with such strict breeding practices, this is a rarity.

Aggressiveness is not a desired trait for the breed. The Rottweiler was originally used for many duties including the guarding of livestock. Wouldn't be much good if it killed all the sheep now would it?

And yes, aggressiveness can be bred out. Its how we we were able to start to domesticate wolves and has been supported by the Belyaev Experiment.

That is why I advocate only approaching legitimate breeders especially if it involves large working breeds. I brought home a beautiful, stable puppy. From that point on, it was up to me to commit my life to the dog and put in countless hours of hard work raising it. It was what I had to do to be a responsible owner and my duty towards my family, friends, community, the breeder, myself and most of all my dog. All worth it though!

I understand you are a careful owner

However, "quickly weeded out" ? and "Those dogs are never made available to homes" oh??? and where do they end up? you mean 100% of those "weeded out" are in now in a safe environment away from humans? quick I see a pig flying outside my window...


"The Rottweiler was originally used for many duties including the guarding of livestock. Wouldn't be much good if it killed all the sheep now would it? do you know, if left unattended even a jack russell, lovely cross bread will kill the sheep/lambs. I"m not sure about this assumption but I'm assumming you live in the big smoke however, ask any rural dog owner near sheep and they will tell you differently.

"aggressiveness can be bred out" sorry I disagree here, it's an animal and within a blink of an eye that same doesy dog and the right moment can switch back into a raging bull albeit for a few minutes.


"commit my life to the dog and put in countless hours of hard work raising it" well done because I reckon (the assumption again) you are in the rare minority for large dog owners

Remember, I'm not have a pop at you but you are in the minority.

 

[hihosilver]

Sorry, but I'm reading between the lines here that you maybe another "oh, my dog has never done that before...."

Sorry but you weren't reading between the lines, you were making huge assumptions and then basing your argument on those assumptions.

you maybe another "oh, my dog has never done that before...." by default in your passage you seem to be fully aware of the damage your dog can inflict on another "fluff" ball of a dog but also any humans nearby so, that in it self screams to me that your dog is a dog that would attack at will ! :/

What I AM fully aware of is that I have a large male Rottweiler and even people who own dogs let alone people that don't like dogs are intimidated just by his appearance, having one off leash would scare the crap out of almost anyone. Also we regularly see other dogs off leash and if my dog was off leash there's a big risk of them running onto the road while playing. My keeping him on leash is part of being a responsible owner and not wanting to make people uncomfortable and also to avoid a potential traffic hazard. Nothing to do with "me being aware of the damage my dog can inflict".

We always go to this fully fenced park often where my Rottie gets to interact with these fluff balls off leash and you know what happens? They chase each other around for a while and then my Rottie ends up rolling around on his back with the little dog jumping all over him. Any humans near by will get slimed on. I know for a fact that no one will be "attacked at will". Once again, all assumptions.

See, your Rottweiler (German Shepherds, Bull Terrier(s), bull dogs, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, included) will always feel the need to enforce their position in the dog hierarchy and you will not stop it.

It is true that these large working breeds are naturally quite dominant (never did I argue otherwise) but in saying that, as I mentioned before, thats where socialization and continued training for the life of the dog comes into play.

Yes you raised it from a pup when it licked you to death but would you leave that same dog near anyone else but yourself???

Yes I would and I have many times before with no troubles what so ever. With strangers? hell no but I wouldn't leave my kids with strangers either.

I've had this same conversation for many years with many of my friends who are dog lovers and I absolutely love how they change their minds when they have kids. Suddenly, it's "oh, you were so right" where can I get rid of it? when they have had a close miss.

What breeds were they and how was their dog selected/raised/trained?

BTW, even a collie will attack if put in a situation. As a kid I was attacked by our very much loved collie and was in hospital for 8 weeks nearly loosing my eye so, don't be fooled by the breed of the dog and remember they are animals not humans like some people think

Thats a point I always try to make to people that point the finger at these large breed dogs and paint them as 'aggressive breeds'. It is actually ALL dogs that can potentially be agressive. Its just that larger breeds are able to do more damage so thats why you NEED to be on top of things with them. Problem is most people fail in that capacity. Here we are in agreement so theres no argument there.

but when you have an attack dog as a pet be very aware

A rottweiler is not an attack dog unless it was trained specifically to do so. It is a working dog first and foremost.

therefore the temperament of that dog doesn't make any difference because it's in the genes and you can not breed it out.

Based on an assumption but I'll bite anyway.

No, its not in its genes. My dogs breeder follows a strict code of ethics and selects the sire and dam carefully based on their physical conformation and temperament in accordance with the breed standard. This process has been done for many generations from a long line of proven Rottweilers both in the working and show capacity. Any aggressiveness will only come due to a genetic anomaly and is quickly weeded out. Those dogs are never made available to homes and definitely not suitable to breed. But with such strict breeding practices, this is a rarity.

Aggressiveness is not a desired trait for the breed. The Rottweiler was originally used for many duties including the guarding of livestock. Wouldn't be much good if it killed all the sheep now would it?

And yes, aggressiveness can be bred out. Its how we we were able to start to domesticate wolves and has been supported by the Belyaev Experiment.

That is why I advocate only approaching legitimate breeders especially if it involves large working breeds. I brought home a beautiful, stable puppy. From that point on, it was up to me to commit my life to the dog and put in countless hours of hard work raising it. It was what I had to do to be a responsible owner and my duty towards my family, friends, community, the breeder, myself and most of all my dog. All worth it though!

I understand you are a careful owner

However, "quickly weeded out" ? and "Those dogs are never made available to homes" oh??? and where do they end up? you mean 100% of those "weeded out" are in now in a safe environment away from humans? quick I see a pig flying outside my window...


"The Rottweiler was originally used for many duties including the guarding of livestock. Wouldn't be much good if it killed all the sheep now would it? do you know, if left unattended even a jack russell, lovely cross bread will kill the sheep/lambs. I"m not sure about this assumption but I'm assumming you live in the big smoke however, ask any rural dog owner near sheep and they will tell you differently.

"aggressiveness can be bred out" sorry I disagree here, it's an animal and within a blink of an eye that same doesy dog and the right moment can switch back into a raging bull albeit for a few minutes.


"commit my life to the dog and put in countless hours of hard work raising it" well done because I reckon (the assumption again) you are in the rare minority for large dog owners

Remember, I'm not having a pop at you but you are in the minority.

BTW, it's certainly a change talking about dogs over silver & gold whereby nothing is happening eh

 

[boyd_05]

I understand you are a careful owner

However, "quickly weeded out" ? and "Those dogs are never made available to homes" oh??? and where do they end up? you mean 100% of those "weeded out" are in now in a safe environment away from humans? quick I see a pig flying outside my window...

Weeded out was a nicer way of saying being put down. So yes, safely away from humans. My breeder has not had to do this yet in his decades of breeding but if placed in that situation, would do what was necessary to maintain the integrity of the blood line. Sounds horrible but its too much of a liability to keep such a powerful aggressive dog around humans. Peoples safety comes first.

do you know, if left unattended even a jack russell, lovely cross bread will kill the sheep/lambs. I"m not sure about this assumption but I'm assumming you live in the big smoke however, ask any rural dog owner near sheep and they will tell you differently.

Jack Russels were bred specifically for hunting so thats no surprise. My point still stands.

And yes, dogs do kill sheep. I brought up the fact about the Rotties' shepherd duties to highlight the fact that aggressiveness is NOT part of the desired Rottweiler temperament so anyone calling them an 'aggressive breed' is entirely wrong. The aggression is introduced through poor breeding or a failure by the handler.

Remember, I'm not have a pop at you but you are in the minority.

I understand I'm in the minority, unfortunately. Too many people get involved in owning/ breeding dogs that have no business doing so. Its reached a point where the situation will probably never resolve itself and the attacks will continue.

My breeder interviews every potential owner that approaches him and only deals with people that he feels would provide a suitable home. Quite a few people are turned down each litter. You could imagine the types of people that this breed attracts.

BTW, it's certainly a change talking about dogs over silver & gold whereby nothing is happening eh

+1. It's either this or get involved in the real estate threads :| lol

 

[kkkrazy]

The best private security is a Churchill in ground safe model Churchill emerald 2 code EE23. Install self

 

[centenario]

I haven't had time to read the whole thread.
I wanted to add my 2 cents
I love dogs. Thieves will pick a home with no dogs over one with dogs. However they can drug your dogs.
An alarm system with a SIM card is ok for some thieves but Professionals use a thing called frequency inhibitor and will make your alarm system useless.
Good things to have are bars at doors and windows. A decoy safe i think it's a good idea no need to put fake coins inside just a big safe will attract the thieves attention and will waste their time and efforts on it. It would be cool to have an incendiary or explosive device inside the safe lol but it would damage your home, any ideas??

Oh I just came up with the best idea, don't buy PM just buy Bitcoins, you can encrypt them into a usb pendrive and keep it on you at all times.

 

[Bobby Woodlawn]

I haven't had time to read the whole thread.
...
Good things to have are bars at doors and windows. ...
Oh I just came up with the best idea, don't buy PM just buy Bitcoins, you can encrypt them into a usb pendrive and keep it on you at all times.

Great idea's!
One - If you live in a place where you need bars on the widows, you are poor and should move before stacking.
Two - Telling stackers their endeavor is now superfluous is not a way to engender respect & admiration. -bw

 

[Shaddam IV]

I am a fan of installing two 120dB miniature howler sirens and strobes in every room of the house. It's extremely unnerving when you are being deafened in every room, if you were trying to spend time opening a safe you would be extremely nervous because you would never know if police were at the door because your ears are at the threshold of pain and you cannot hear anything but the shrieking of the alarms. It's easy to conceal the little howler transducers and they are near impossible to locate when they are going off as your ear is so overloaded that you can't tell the direction of the sound source. Throw in some strobes and it is really disorientating.

 

[spannermonkey]

I am a fan of installing two 120dB miniature howler sirens and strobes in every room of the house. It's extremely unnerving when you are being deafened in every room, if you were trying to spend time opening a safe you would be extremely nervous because you would never know if police were at the door because your ears are at the threshold of pain and you cannot hear anything but the shrieking of the alarms. It's easy to conceal the little howler transducers and they are near impossible to locate when they are going off as your ear is so overloaded that you can't tell the direction of the sound source. Throw in some strobes and it is really disorientating.

I know how to shut them up quickly
BUT I'm not telling

 

[Shaddam IV]

I am a fan of installing two 120dB miniature howler sirens and strobes in every room of the house. It's extremely unnerving when you are being deafened in every room, if you were trying to spend time opening a safe you would be extremely nervous because you would never know if police were at the door because your ears are at the threshold of pain and you cannot hear anything but the shrieking of the alarms. It's easy to conceal the little howler transducers and they are near impossible to locate when they are going off as your ear is so overloaded that you can't tell the direction of the sound source. Throw in some strobes and it is really disorientating.

I know how to shut them up quickly
BUT I'm not telling

PM me and tell me!

 

[spannermonkey]

I am a fan of installing two 120dB miniature howler sirens and strobes in every room of the house. It's extremely unnerving when you are being deafened in every room, if you were trying to spend time opening a safe you would be extremely nervous because you would never know if police were at the door because your ears are at the threshold of pain and you cannot hear anything but the shrieking of the alarms. It's easy to conceal the little howler transducers and they are near impossible to locate when they are going off as your ear is so overloaded that you can't tell the direction of the sound source. Throw in some strobes and it is really disorientating.

I know how to shut them up quickly
BUT I'm not telling

PM me and tell me!

Done
It's not an easy trick to pull of & you got to have your wits about you to pull it of

 

[kkkrazy]

Churchill in ground safe ,emerald EE23 this safe buried full arm length in concrete will give multiable day protection.can hide anywhere you can dig hole.concealed safes offer best protection.

 

[excalibur]

Who supplies these in OZ?

 

[bja]

Now where to hide the key...

 

[Big A.D.]

concealed safes offer best protection.

From safe crackers maybe.

From dudes pointing a sawn-off at your kid's head...not so much.

 

[robertc400]

Safes Galore has the CMI TDR version

 

[Shamatti]

Home safes - things to know.

That concrete interior should have been laced with steel wire, then the circular cutting saw used would not have been any use. Concrete and steel mixed interiors are not susceptible to such cutting.

Your safe should not be findable - it was out in the open in what look like (From the photos) a garage? Way too easy to find.
Locate your safe in a hidden place where it can't be found. Build an enclosed location from brick or breeze clock. This is a very small expenditure compared to the cost of the safe. Have a false back created in a cupboard. Have a fake Boiler enclosure built if it has to be in a garage, with a strongly padlocked front. This way unless intruders know there is a safe to be found, they almost certainly won't find your safe.

Have the enclosure alarmed.

If intruders know there is a safe on the premises, they might still find it, but if this was an opportunistic crime, and it sounds like it was from what the opening post sated (They returned with tools) the above advice would have prevented the loss.

 

[copperhead]

When a thief has your number your done . A technique I found for me was visits little by little for a year, copper , brass , tools and finally 20 oz silver and $400 bucks gold . I was not organized and I kept my life a hodge podge so I could not tell I was getting lifted . I ignored some suspicions and just figured I miscounted my stock . I am glad I finally figured as the intention was to take all in the end.
Sure a safe is good but it needs to be hidden in a way that probably is not practical like a
fake closet that appears smaller then it is with a hidden way in .
If some one knows you have PM you could have a home invasion some thieves will kill you
Modesty of you life is key.Once you have a predator in your life it's like you have a partner and they think they have it coming to them .
The only sobering aspect to getting stolen from is it puts things in perspective, see
One may have worries that they bought silver at $25 last week $37 two years ago now its $22
AND now it's GONE . You know what - you put your boots on and start over what else can you do , HIDE YOU STASH .

 

[Hugh Mann]

I`v been thinking a Lot about this particular thread for a few days now (as posted by the OP).

and I agree that having a safe for your stack is a bad idea, by all means have a safe for items that are Only of value to You, ie/ Pasports, photographs, books if you run a business, your 1`st teddy bear or new borns shoes etc... stuff that You Personally don`t want to lose or have trashed in a fire.
but only things of a Local value as opposed to Global value (everyone else).

for Global value things a Brute Force attempt to protect them will fail, you need smarts if you want to store them at home, you`ll never win on a brute force approach!.

you have to think like a criminal to do this, a Smuggler or drug dealer.
these folks know how to stash and hide stuff all too well, and no 2 are alike (or very seldomly).
there`s a whole Ton of ways to hide these items around the house (I`ll list a few later).

and as also mentioned earlier, Decoys (read fake stuff) is a seriously Bad idea! rather use the Real thing but in losable amounts, AKA: Honey-Pots.

leave a $115 in a wallet in assorted bills, hiden but easily findable in the predictable places, have a few jars with some 10p or Dimes in it half full, leave those on a shelf in a room.
this is your "decoy", and though they may leave your home a bit disapponted, you won`t go on the "will return later" list!

meanwhile your REAL Stack, they`ve probably walked right past several times in order to steal your prescious Fiat

a few ideas to get you thinking might be:
inside empty food tins that you can solder back up again or detergent boxes at the bottom (money laundering LOL) , or rice or flour.
get some duct tape, take a wall socket off and see how many Sovreins you can stick to the back plate (10 will be easy per socket).
Under the dirt in a plant pot.
under the floor boards or in furniture, maybe hollow out a log if you have an open fireplace.
between rashers of bacon and then freeze it "Just bringing back the bacon honey"
use a drill to hollow out a large frozen meat joint and shove some bar or coin there and repack.
card-coins taped-card-picture-glass, then hang it on the wall in plain view.
got a screw driver (and for Gods sake be carefull with thios one!) there`s plenty of real estate inside electrical items! now don`t be silly and try store $2000 worth of PM in a $4000 Hi-Fi or computer here! it`ll be the 1`st out the door, think about Larger items like Fridge freezers, tumble dryers washing machines etc... in fact, the last 2 often have large cement slabs inside them to keep them steady on spin cycles, Ideal for the hard-core stacker to swap that out for a few 100 Oz bars!
had a look around the house for tube of box section metal? maybe a bed frame? will the bottom screw off and will your rolls/tubes of coins fit in there?
there`s always under the floorboards too
maybe up in the attic/loft on a particular memorable sqr or strip of loft insulation you can hide a few in the glass wool?

avoid false bottoms in drawers or selotaping them to the back of drawers etc... that would be the 1`st place most would look after taking the underwear drawer appart and the dog house, do nothing cliche` !

^^^ not meant to be a definitive list, just stuff to get the gray matter working really.


ps: I keep none of mine in the above, but these were ideas I had before I came up with better ones, you will too! just keep thinking Smuggler style

hope this helps someone a little.

 

[BiGs]

A decoy safe and a house alarm system will prevent almost all thefts.

The comment of wire in concrete stopping this is not true. One thing I do for a living is cut open reinforced concrete slabs, sometimes with 30mm dia debar inside. My 400mm petrol saw with the right blade will cut one of these fire safes in half in about 5-10 minutes, regardless of how much steel in in the walls.