Home Safes - DON'T.

If someone was to come looking for pm's they should be seriously let down and be able to find nothing.
Your home is not a bank vault so why try to treat it as 1?

If you do store items at home you are putting your family at risk for metal, so you must ask yourself if its worth having about.

A well trained Rottweiler is wonderful for keeping your family safe, and why stop at owning just 1.
 
goldpelican said:
Dogs only make sense if you know that they will spend 100% of their lives at the property. Otherwise the absence of a dog when there's normally one around is an even bigger flag that the house is likely vacant.

Been a dog owner for almost 40 years non-stop, not every house you live in is going to be convenient for someone else to dogsit for you. Great general deterrent, but it would be silly IMO to just rely on "I've got a dog" as a home security solution.
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yes and most dogs unless they are trained ( like my 2 x useless mutts ) will most likely just be happy to let the person in after getting a treat or a pat.
 
Rinchin said:
Byron said:
Naphthalene Man said:
And what the hell would you want one of those meathead dogs for? There are enough people roaming around with dogs that they dontrain who think a tough dog will impart some sense of toughness to their clearly depauperate sense of self confidence or social status.

"Not achieving in life what you thought you would as a child? Let's get a tough dog."

Sorry for derailing. Thanks for posting GP, feel bad fort the owner and hope his important documents are not missing.
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Naphtha man has made a great point.

I used to work in one of the most disadvantaged areas of Sydney and saw more of these dogs and their meathead, houso owners than anywhere else.

Lots of them would end up as strays and attacks on children and other innocent bystanders were not uncommon.

Ferocious dogs are more of a danger to their own owners family and neighbours than any potential intruder. I'm glad some legislation has passed banning some of these breeds despite what libertarians may say.
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No idea how you can be so damn ignorant. How is banning the breed in any way going to change the behaviour of the OWNER? Its like banning guns; if we banned all guns tomorrow the only people who continued possessing guns would be those who did not respect the rules. Same thing with the dogs you talk of. The people who want to look tough be having badly trained angry dog will only want them more. The "status" of owning an illegal dangerous breed will only add appeal to the very people who are the problem.

Sorry to inform you but in a libertarian world most of these problem people would struggle to own these dogs anyway since its your ridiculous socialist centerlink system that funds this....
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Where did i say anything about banning? I love dogs and own them and, despite my jack's being bred to catch small animals (very handy for snakes next to the house), they happily get along next to free ranging guinea pigs as they have been taught. While i do get the occasional kelpie and blue heeler roaming across my paddock, i doubt i would hesitate to shoot a 'tough' breed dog if i knew that i could get away with it. Yep, i'm a breed-ist :)

Back on topic, good summary hiho.
 
Court Jester said:
goldpelican said:
Dogs only make sense if you know that they will spend 100% of their lives at the property. Otherwise the absence of a dog when there's normally one around is an even bigger flag that the house is likely vacant.

Been a dog owner for almost 40 years non-stop, not every house you live in is going to be convenient for someone else to dogsit for you. Great general deterrent, but it would be silly IMO to just rely on "I've got a dog" as a home security solution.
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yes and most dogs unless they are trained ( like my 2 x useless mutts ) will most likely just be happy to let the person in after getting a treat or a pat.
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A friend lives next door to housing apartments. One of the drop kicks in the apartments are teasing the dog constantly unseen and we reckon they are getting people used to hearing the dog barking so they can rob the place at a later date. The vast majority of dogs are friendly once you don't have the fence between you. The problem for the thief is getting the guts up to enter and hoping that this one is not in the minority.
 
Byron said:
Naphthalene Man said:
boston said:
Just one of these should suffice as back up protection. I have seen them in the flesh, and whilst a pit bull would do serious damage, a Boerboel would eat it!

We actually looked at them with intent and spoke to several owners. The story that sticks in my mind, was when an owner told us that he saw one of his dogs taking down a young bull by itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boerboel
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And what the hell would you want one of those meathead dogs for? There are enough people roaming around with dogs that they dontrain who think a tough dog will impart some sense of toughness to their clearly depauperate sense of self confidence or social status.

"Not achieving in life what you thought you would as a child? Let's get a tough dog."

Sorry for derailing. Thanks for posting GP, feel bad fort the owner and hope his important documents are not missing.
Click to expand...

Naphtha man has made a great point.

I used to work in one of the most disadvantaged areas of Sydney and saw more of these dogs and their meathead, houso owners than anywhere else.

Lots of them would end up as strays and attacks on children and other innocent bystanders were not uncommon.

Ferocious dogs are more of a danger to their own owners family and neighbours than any potential intruder. I'm glad some legislation has passed banning some of these breeds despite what libertarians may say.
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I 100% disagree here, there is no bad dogs just bad owners. My 2 x staffies have been referred to as "pitbulls" when I ahve been out walking them with people intentionally crossing the street to avoid them. It amuses me as they are as far removed from viscous as you can get, the worst they would do to you is lick you and roll over. it just shows most of these nupties ignorance and fear of the unknown and label anything that looks like a staffy as a "pitbull".

Even True American pitbulls are fine dogs when properly raised and taken care of.

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[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/7513_tonka.jpg]
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mmm....shiney! said:
Byron said:
mmm....shiney! said:
You talk shite byron.
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What's the problem?

You must be a dog owner.
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Bingo!

But I'll let somebody else debate with you over your twisted political views. Suffice to say my premise remains accurate and proven correct.
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Say what you will but i am entitled to my view as much as you are to yours. I do appreciate the polite and sensible pro-dog views put forth here but do not agree.

I'm not blaming responsible owners (which i imagine nearly all members of SS are).

However there are complete morons out there that are irresponsible and their dogs are ticking time bombs.

Have a look at the 2 year old that died here recently (as well as other children and adults), mauled by one of these dangerous breeds. I dont really like or agree with the author of this article but in this case i make an exception.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...estroy_these_deadly_animals_once_and_for_all/
 
Byron said:
mmm....shiney! said:
Byron said:
What's the problem?

You must be a dog owner.
Click to expand...

Bingo!

But I'll let somebody else debate with you over your twisted political views. Suffice to say my premise remains accurate and proven correct.
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Say what you will but i am entitled to my view as much as you are to yours. I do appreciate the polite and sensible pro-dog views put forth here but do not agree.

I'm not blaming responsible owners (which i imagine nearly all members of SS are).

However there are complete morons out there that are irresponsible and their dogs are ticking time bombs.

Have a look at the 2 year old that died here recently (as well as other children and adults), mauled by one of these dangerous breeds. I dont really like or agree with the author of this article but in this case i make an exception.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...estroy_these_deadly_animals_once_and_for_all/
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There is a large grey area but so you guys know, Libertarianism isn't pro-dangerous dog ownership under any circumstances just like it isn't pro-gun or pro-nuclear weapons ownership under any circumstances. The difference is that it doesn't advocate taking away rights rather than uphold them. The case Byron linked to would be one that would require a jury by peers to see whether the guardians of the child's rights failed in their responsibility of adequately protecting them and then, if deemed guilty, to determine whether further punishment is warranted.
 
goldpelican said:
So many people are willing to scare-monger about safe deposit boxes in banks or private companies - but when was the last time you saw that level of safe-cracking happen inside a bank vault in Australia. Houses get robbed all the time.
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Think there was a bank safe cracked in Newcastle some time in the early 80s. NAB's safety deposit boxes in their Haymarket branch got cleaned out in 1988, but as far as I know there hasn't been anything noteworthy since the "Great Chinese Takeaway".

The sheer amount of technology that's available these days to slow down attackers makes the rewards for attempting to rob a decent facility really quite poor.

Any decent safe is going to cost a minimum of $2,000 brand new and more in the region of $4,000-$7,000 for a decent sized one.

With a decent sized safety deposit box in a professional private vault costing only $250-$400 per year, you're going to have to wait more than a decade before realizing any "savings" on your own safe. Even then you still have to deal with it being in your property somewhere and the threat of someone in a balaclava jamming a stolen 9mm into your neck in the small hours of the morning.

Security really depends on who you are, what you're trying to protect and what you're trying to protect it from.
 
Is there a thread for "Safes Do"? Eg, best brands, features to look for (thick walls etc), installation guide (discreet placemnt, camo, use room geometry to force a frontal attack), support (dog, security system, response team etc), and any other methods stackers use to avoid, deter or prolong an attack?
 
Big A.D. said:
goldpelican said:
So many people are willing to scare-monger about safe deposit boxes in banks or private companies - but when was the last time you saw that level of safe-cracking happen inside a bank vault in Australia. Houses get robbed all the time.
Click to expand...

Think there was a bank safe cracked in Newcastle some time in the early 80s. NAB's safety deposit boxes in their Haymarket branch got cleaned out in 1988, but as far as I know there hasn't been anything noteworthy since the "Great Chinese Takeaway".

The sheer amount of technology that's available these days to slow down attackers makes the rewards for attempting to rob a decent facility really quite poor.

Any decent safe is going to cost a minimum of $2,000 brand new and more in the region of $4,000-$7,000 for a decent sized one.

With a decent sized safety deposit box in a professional private vault costing only $250-$400 per year, you're going to have to wait more than a decade before realizing any "savings" on your own safe. Even then you still have to deal with it being in your property somewhere and the threat of someone in a balaclava jamming a stolen 9mm into your neck in the small hours of the morning.

Security really depends on who you are, what you're trying to protect and what you're trying to protect it from.
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Didn't the safe deposit boxes at Kennards in Melbourne get cleaned out last year?
 
Terrible business and I do empathise - get a deposit box at one of those unshakeable, immovable, uncrackable high street banks for a very reasonable annual fee... unless...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5_Msrdg3Hk[/youtube]
:o
 
In another life, I was paid very well to think like a criminal to design, test and breach all manner of security systems.

I repeat... a safe is a target... targets are meant for hitting... a safe or vault is no security on its own... it is only a delaying mechanism or obstacle for criminals. A safe or vault is only a small part of an overall security plan or system.

Even as a law abiding citizen, my curiosity is immediately tweaked as soon as I see a safe or vault... I immediately start listing the possibilities of what the owner could be trying to keep hidden or secure and how vulnerable the installation may be or how it could be breached.

A lone or unattended safe is far worse than no safe at all.

A home safe... equals insecurity or worse no security at all.

If you are not able or willing to develop an effect security plan for your valuables, then you should pay a reputable third-party, a large bank or well-established vaulting service, to secure your valuables for you and carry the risk.
 
Silver Pauper said:
Even as a law abiding citizen, my curiosity is immediately tweaked as soon as I see a safe or vault... I immediately start listing the possibilities of what the owner could be trying to keep hidden or secure and how vulnerable the installation may be or how it could be breached.
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Do you? And I had you pegged for being the trustworthy type :P
 
Naphthalene Man said:
boston said:
Just one of these should suffice as back up protection. I have seen them in the flesh, and whilst a pit bull would do serious damage, a Boerboel would eat it!

We actually looked at them with intent and spoke to several owners. The story that sticks in my mind, was when an owner told us that he saw one of his dogs taking down a young bull by itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boerboel
Click to expand...

And what the hell would you want one of those meathead dogs for? There are enough people roaming around with dogs that they dontrain who think a tough dog will impart some sense of toughness to their clearly depauperate sense of self confidence or social status.

"Not achieving in life what you thought you would as a child? Let's get a tough dog."

Sorry for derailing. Thanks for posting GP, feel bad fort the owner and hope his important documents are not missing.
Click to expand...
Hmm, what would I want one of those meathead dogs for? Whilst I think I am reasonably balanced, perhaps you're right, and I am an underachiever. I will let others decide on that topic.

However, having been a registered breeder of Rhodesian Ridgebacks for some time, I think it sufficient to advise that I just like larger dogs. A well trained dog, whether obedience, tracking or trials is an absolute joy to watch.

The stories I could tell you of one of our, now deceased dogs, would astound you - like the time she protected our son and his friend from a paedophile. Without barking or growling - her presence was sufficient! Or stopping, shall we say unsavoury people from coming onto our property, once again without barking and just siting in front of them barring their entrance. I doubt that a Jack Russell or Chihuahua would have the same impact.

Have a look around at what is happening,
1. Laws are being put in place to stop you from being able to protect yourself and your possessions.
2. You are liable if you hurt someone who is intent on hurting you or your family.
3. Guns and, in Victoria knives, have/are being outlawed.
4. Dangerous dogs are banned - and some should be. Yet the highest number of dog attacks, from memory, are by the much smaller Australian Cattle dog.
5. Laws have been put in place to stop you from actively protecting your own property. Refer the anti-fortress legislation.
6. I live on acreage, and barbed wire fencing, believe it or not, is frowned upon.

So all this aside, how are you going to protect your traditional rights, property or family?

Whilst a dog may not be the be all and end all of protection, it goes a long way towards it.
 
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