High Relief designs are here to stay!

[mmissinglink]

It's clear beyond any doubt that many of those people who are buying coins, medals, and even rounds are loving high relief designs. Many major mints have recognized this....even the U.S. Mint which is usually quite slow in picking up on what's hot and in demand has produced a couple of high relief coins over the past several years including the new gold American Liberty coin (which I like a lot).

Some of you already know my unsurpassed love for high relief Chinese medals, but I also like some other modern and high relief coins, medals, and rounds produced by other mints from around the world.


Today, my hat is tipped to one of my favorite new high relief coin series, the Swiss Wildlife silver series. This series doesn't benefit from the high profile marketing of the Perth Mint so you may have never seen or heard of the Swiss Wildlife series....but in my opinion the Swiss Wildlife series is high quality and very appealing......

2013 Niue Ultra High Relief Swiss Wildlife series - Alpine Ibex

2014 Niue Ultra High Relief Swiss Wildlife series - Capercaillie

2015 Niue Ultra High Relief Swiss Wildlife series - Mountain Hare




What other modern high relief coins and medals do you like that gets little attention? I can think of several from a variety of mints but I've already shared one of my favorites....what's one of yours?




.

 

[andrewlee10]

This is 20 coins series if I am not wrong.

I see some of the real coin. It is another type of technology.

 

[Fat Freddy]

$110-$130 USD/oz (7.2x-8.5x spot) is a painful price for pretty. These are for rabid devotees only.

 

[mmissinglink]

$110-$130 USD/oz (7.2x-8.5x spot) is a painful price for pretty. These are for rabid devotees only.

Using your bizarre logic, all stackers and coin collectors are rabid devotees because all have paid, at one point or another, more for the coin or blob, than the content of its metal(s) would cost if buying the raw metal itself.

The fact that stackers, 2 years ago were enthusiastically paying around USD $24 / oz is testament to this reality....using your logic. The fact that a stacker may pay a penny more for a coin or blob than the melt value is testament to this fact....using your logic.

You are a rabid devotee, Fat Freddy, just like all the rest of us, whether you acknowledge it or not.

This following coin is priced at about 114 million times it's metal value but I bet that there's probably not a coin lover alive who wouldn't love to own it for 17.2-18.5 X it's metal value:
http://cointrackers.com/coins/988/1913-liberty-head-v-nickel/


We (stackers) are all rabid devotees, using Fat Freddy's logic.



.

 

[Fat Freddy]

Wow---the power of projection as a defensive tool never ceases to amaze!

All PM items carries premiums. Low-premium items carry premiums of 7%-15%(ish) per oz and the pretty, current "designer" coins cited in this thread carry premiums of 620%-750%. There's a big difference between the 7%-15% range and the 620%-750% premium range. I differentiate between these two premium ranges as being modest and badly inflated and there isn't anything "bizarre" about differentiating between them. If anything, refusing to notice and pay heed to the cost difference between these two premium ranges is bizarre.

On another note... Comparing a 1913 Liberty Head V Nickel to bullion coins/bars or these current, pretty "designer" coins is invalid. The realms of classic numismatic coins, current low-premium bullion and current "semi-numismatic" coins (one small section of which is the current, pretty "designer" bauble coins) are radically different worlds. Recognized classic numismatic coins are rare historic artifacts that have been around for many years (and frequently centuries). The current, pretty "designer" coins are currently-manufactured consumer trinkets that vendors try to hype up and pass on as "rare &/or valuable coins". If you don't believe me and you truly believe they're really all the same, here's a challenge for you... Try to sell one of these pretty, current "designer" coins to a professional LCS or a professional coin show vendor and see what kind of purchase offers you can develop. You may (?) be able to offload these current baubles among the frenzied masses on Ebay, but the real professionals who deal in classic numismatic coins will disdain the current baubles and probably make minimalist or no offers to buy them. I don't believe I've ever seen any of these current baubles in any of the dozens of coin shows I've attended.

IMO, neither all stackers nor classic numismatic coin collectors are rabid devotees, but people who pay >7x spot for current, pretty "designer" bauble/trinket coins are.

 

[sterling-nz]

$110-$130 USD/oz (7.2x-8.5x spot) is a painful price for pretty. These are for rabid devotees only.

Using your bizarre logic, all stackers and coin collectors are rabid devotees because all have paid, at one point or another, more for the coin or blob, than the content of its metal(s) would cost if buying the raw metal itself.

The fact that stackers, 2 years ago were enthusiastically paying around USD $24 / oz is testament to this reality....using your logic. The fact that a stacker may pay a penny more for a coin or blob than the melt value is testament to this fact....using your logic.

You are a rabid devotee, Fat Freddy, just like all the rest of us, whether you acknowledge it or not.

This following coin is priced at about 114 million times it's metal value but I bet that there's probably not a coin lover alive who wouldn't love to own it for 17.2-18.5 X it's metal value:
http://cointrackers.com/coins/988/1913-liberty-head-v-nickel/


We (stackers) are all rabid devotees, using Fat Freddy's logic.



.

These coins have quite a history

 

[mmissinglink]

@ Fat Freddy,

Your arguments are absurd on grounds of lack of logic alone. Using your bizarre logic, all stackers and coin collectors are rabid devotees.


Now please stop your nonsense and if you don't have anything productive to add to this thread, then please go away. This forum doesn't need a resident troll.



.

 

[Fat Freddy]

@ Fat Freddy, Your arguments are absurd on grounds of lack of logic alone. Using your bizarre logic, all stackers and coin collectors are rabid devotees. Now please stop your nonsense and if you don't have anything productive to add to this thread, then please go away. This forum doesn't need a resident troll.
.

You can't come up with a valid refutation of a single thing I said, so you resort to mindless repetition, bitterness and name-calling. It's hard to tell if you're more funny than sad or more sad than funny, but I hope you do enjoy those overpriced designer baubletrinketcoins. I just hope that any as yet unseasoned newbies who read these worshipful, cult-like posts about these overpriced baubles from First Coin and the few other vendors like them don't make the mistake of concluding that paying through the nose for these baubles is the one and only true essence of what stacking is all about.

Please be sure to let us all know how it goes when you try to resell one of these baubles to professional show vendors at the next major coin show near where you live. I'm sure a lot of us would like to hear what kind of reception was accorded to your efforts.

 

[andrewlee10]

@ Fat Freddy, Your arguments are absurd on grounds of lack of logic alone. Using your bizarre logic, all stackers and coin collectors are rabid devotees. Now please stop your nonsense and if you don't have anything productive to add to this thread, then please go away. This forum doesn't need a resident troll.
.

You can't come up with a valid refutation of a single thing I said, so you resort to mindless repetition, bitterness and name-calling. It's hard to tell if you're more funny than sad or more sad than funny, but I hope you do enjoy those overpriced designer baubletrinketcoins. I just hope that any as yet unseasoned newbies who read these worshipful, cult-like posts about these overpriced baubles from First Coin and the few other vendors like them don't make the mistake of concluding that paying through the nose for these baubles is the one and only true essence of what stacking is all about.

Please be sure to let us all know how it goes when you try to resell one of these baubles to professional show vendors at the next major coin show near where you live. I'm sure a lot of us would like to hear what kind of reception was accorded to your efforts.

If the market rate of the coin is 150USD. How to sell them to a dealer at 150USD. What their earning and cover the overhead costs?

Am I read your post wrongly or my understand is wrong?

 

[Jislizard]

I look at High Relief coins the way I look at TV shows.

Sure they have come a long way since the early televisions, I can now watch a show in Dolby surround sound on a high definition LED screen the size of my wall.

But the quality of the programs' content hasn't improved along with the technology, I still don't want to watch anything on TV. Occasionally a show like "Breaking Bad" will come along but you could watch that on an old CRT TV and it would be just as good. It just serves to highlight just how bad all the other TV shows are.

So High Relief, coloured, lenticular, gemstone inserts, odd shaped, 3D sculptured coins are all very accomplished feats of engineering but I wouldn't chose one of them over a Spanish Piece of eight Cob. The fancy features are just a distraction from the pretty ordinary subject matter.

The Chinese Great Wall is a good example of where having a high relief looks like it has been added for a reason other then "Because we can!". I like goats and I like Switzerland, is a goat a great subject for a high relief coin? Does it add anything to the design to have one bit in high relief? Probably if I saw one up close it might change my mind but I have one of the High Relief Dragons from 2012 and it wasn't that impressive. It does stand out from the background but as there is no background anyway it is a nice design feature.

I am a bit of a grumpy old man but coins were definitely better in my day.

 

[mmissinglink]

@ Fat Freddy,

Predictably, you are mysteriously confusing me not wanting to waste my precious time responding to your absurd comments for me not being able to refute the nutty claims of yours. The reason why I hesitate to respond to your wacko claim is because people like you wouldn't know a cogent and substantive refutation if it hit you upside the head like a sledgehammer smashing the "high striker" in a carnival.

But I have sympathy for the cognitively impaired so I will explain why your claim that I'd responded to in post #4 is absurd.

You bizarrely suggested that the reason that someone is considered by you to be a rabid devotee is because that person would pay $X - $Y over the current spot price for a silver coin. This wacko argument only takes into consideration the perceived value of the raw metal as fixed by the LBMA on some given moment that you happen to chose and nothing else....not any of the design, production, and distribution costs to name just a few of the costs associated with the production of the Swiss Wildlife ultra high relief series coins are taken into consideration by illogical you.

That's why, using that ridiculous, absurd argument of yours, any and all costs paid by a stacker or coin collector above the LBMA fix for any coin or blob makes that person a rabid devotee for precisely the same argument you have asserted.

According to your wacked out logic, anyone paying $X - $Y above the value of the metal of a 1913 Liberty Head V Nickel (or any coin or blob for that matter) is a rabid devotee. That's your nutty argument, not mine since you are the one who doesn't consider any other factor which impacts the value of a coin.

On the other hand, clearly it has always been and is my contention that there are many factors that drive value....the perceived daily value fixed in London is but one factor of many and often, it is a very meaningless factor for a great many modern and numismatic coins.


Fat Freddy, you've already shown yourself to be a troll by beginning to hijack this thread with your inflammatory and insulting comments, your ad hominem attacks, and your nutjob comments that have nothing at all to do with the spirit of this thread.

Please get lost and remove yourself from this thread and allow those who want to actually add positive and pertinent comments to do so without having to read your nasty trashmouth drivel.


.

 

[andrewlee10]

I look at High Relief coins the way I look at TV shows.

Sure they have come a long way since the early televisions, I can now watch a show in Dolby surround sound on a high definition LED screen the size of my wall.

But the quality of the programs' content hasn't improved along with the technology, I still don't want to watch anything on TV. Occasionally a show like "Breaking Bad" will come along but you could watch that on an old CRT TV and it would be just as good. It just serves to highlight just how bad all the other TV shows are.

So High Relief, coloured, lenticular, gemstone inserts, odd shaped, 3D sculptured coins are all very accomplished feats of engineering but I wouldn't chose one of them over a Spanish Piece of eight Cob. The fancy features are just a distraction from the pretty ordinary subject matter.

The Chinese Great Wall is a good example of where having a high relief looks like it has been added for a reason other then "Because we can!". I like goats and I like Switzerland, is a goat a great subject for a high relief coin? Does it add anything to the design to have one bit in high relief? Probably if I saw one up close it might change my mind but I have one of the High Relief Dragons from 2012 and it wasn't that impressive. It does stand out from the background but as there is no background anyway it is a nice design feature.

I am a bit of a grumpy old man but coins were definitely better in my day.

Everyone appreciate different beauty in their own eyes and senses. someone junk might be another person treasure.

The Dolby surround sound. LCD, LED, curve shape and 2 D TV and those high relief, coloured, gemstone insert and so other coins must have enough demand for those manufacturers to make profit and produce them.

Will the old CRT TV and VCR still produce by them in another decades ? If yes, what the demand level as compare to the new one? The time will tell and had told us.

 

[mmissinglink]

That's a valid position JLizard, though I may feel differently about certain features or characteristics of a coin than you. Thank you for sharing.



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[Jislizard]

Fortunately there is enough interest in 'novelty' in the world so that we have reached the stage where we can actually produce this diversity in the hobby, otherwise we would still be hammering a coin out of a bar of silver.

There is obviously a lot of interest in novelty coins or they would not be produced. I think the market is big enough to produce these items but without the need to make them legal tender or call them coins. Many coin collectors can be negative about them because they don't look or act like coins but they are being sold as such.

As plaques or tokens or medals they are perfectly respectable, as coins they miss the mark for me.

 

[mmissinglink]

@ JLizard,


Right, everyone has a different feeling about what a coin should be. There are some who I've come across who feel that if it isn't put into circulation, it's not a legit coin. To me, that's a needlessly narrow definition.

My definition is much more broad because the most sensible definition of a "coin" is much more broad than only circulating, spendable, official currency.

I welcome the diversity of collector coins and other similar products that are available today. I certainly don't find many of them aesthetically appealing to me but that's just my subjective taste. I especially appreciate the much greater effort and work that goes into producing many of the high relief coins, medals, and rounds that I've seen and I, as well as many other people I know, are clearly willing to reward mints for this effort by buying these high relief products.


And that is the point of this thread; for members here who appreciate and like high relief coins, medals, and rounds to share the ones they like.

It's really that simple in my view.


Like why in the world would there be a need for Fat Freddy to come into this thread attacking the way he did for no good reason??? Makes no sense at all.



.

 

[andrewlee10]

Fortunately there is enough interest in 'novelty' in the world so that we have reached the stage where we can actually produce this diversity in the hobby, otherwise we would still be hammering a coin out of a bar of silver.

There is obviously a lot of interest in novelty coins or they would not be produced. I think the market is big enough to produce these items but without the need to make them legal tender or call them coins. Many coin collectors can be negative about them because they don't look or act like coins but they are being sold as such.

As plaques or tokens or medals they are perfectly respectable, as coins they miss the mark for me.

Totally hit the nail. some like it some hate it. As long as there is a market manufacturer produce it.

Majority of the china legal tender (coin) still maintain the traditional way. However, this not the case for others.

Personally I buy what I like for collection. Buy what is potential for sell.

 

[Gatito Bandito]

Seems to me like those "real professionals who deal in classic numismatic coins" aren't really the end-market nor are the appropriate seller for these types of pieces, anyway -- correct?

In which case, who cares if they don't want to get involved with them.


Fact is, obviously some people like them enough to buy them.

Personally, I've checked out the Niue Swiss Wildlife coins in the past, since they've got some relief to them, and the designs aren't completely awful, IMO.

Just didn't totally have what I was looking for, so I passed..

Not to mention the confusion over what exactly Niue has to do with Swiss wildlife. :lol:


Anyway, maybe it's just that part of the market is changing..

In which case, who cares? Let it. It's been changing for eons, and will continue to do so. This world would be a pretty boring place if we all liked the same things, day in & day out, for all of eternity.


I think antique finish is pretty cool, when done right.

I also really like high-relief stuff.. Whether it's coins, rounds, medals -- even poured bars which have evolved from rectangles, to sexy-ass works of art which require the mold-makers to have some sort of understanding of design & craftsmanship.

These high-relief pieces are no longer flat discs & blocks of yesteryear, but thick & chunky items with "popping" designs that have eye-appeal.


Decades & even centuries down the road, there will be some people loving this stuff -- just as there are today.

And who's to say that decades & even centuries down the road, some numismatists won't be going ga-ga over some of these current-day "baubles."


Not going to disagree with anybody who says there's some over-priced, over-hyped "designer" items out there.. Because there is, and I can think of at least a couple websites who mainly deal in a lot of that category.

But not so sure that all high-relief pieces, perhaps with antique finishing, particularly fit that definition. These Niue Swiss Wildlife coins, included.


The times, they are a'changin'..

Long gone are the days of silver currency. Gotta do something with all that metal.. Might as well experiment & have some fun.


Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go play with my YPS / Silver Slacker 4-oz Lion, as I admire my Brandenburg German Taler from 1538..

 

[Fat Freddy]

@ML... If nothing else, you certainly the all-time SS master/mistress of raging, venomous hatred. Congrats on having outdone even yourself once again!

 

[mmissinglink]

Seems to me like those "real professionals who deal in classic numismatic coins" aren't really the end-market nor are the appropriate seller for these types of pieces, anyway -- correct?

In which case, who cares if they don't want to get involved with them.


Fact is, obviously some people like them enough to buy them.

Personally, I've checked out the Niue Swiss Wildlife coins in the past, since they've got some relief to them, and the designs aren't completely awful, IMO.

Just didn't totally have what I was looking for, so I passed..

Not to mention the confusion over what exactly Niue has to do with Swiss wildlife. :lol:


Anyway, maybe it's just that part of the market is changing..

In which case, who cares? Let it. It's been changing for eons, and will continue to do so. This world would be a pretty boring place if we all liked the same things, day in & day out, for all of eternity.


I think antique finish is pretty cool, when done right.

I also really like high-relief stuff.. Whether it's coins, rounds, medals -- even poured bars which have evolved from rectangles, to sexy-ass works of art which require the mold-makers to have some sort of understanding of design & craftsmanship.

These high-relief pieces are no longer flat discs & blocks of yesteryear, but thick & chunky items with "popping" designs that have eye-appeal.


Decades & even centuries down the road, there will be some people loving this stuff -- just as there are today.

And who's to say that decades & even centuries down the road, some numismatists won't be going ga-ga over some of these current-day "baubles."


Not going to disagree with anybody who says there's some over-priced, over-hyped "designer" items out there.. Because there is, and I can think of at least a couple websites who mainly deal in a lot of that category.

But not so sure that all high-relief pieces, perhaps with antique finishing, particularly fit that definition. These Niue Swiss Wildlife coins, included.


The times, they are a'changin'..

Long gone are the days of silver currency. Gotta do something with all that metal.. Might as well experiment & have some fun.


Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go play with my YPS / Silver Slacker 4-oz Lion, as I admire my Brandenburg German Taler from 1538..

Now that you have confessed you like some high relief coins, medals, or rounds, in the spirit of why this thread was created in the first place (and never mind that bratty troll who stomped upon it with a few nasty comments ), please share pics of at least 1 such coin, medal, round, or bar that contains a high relief design that you particularly like....whether you own one or not.



As for coins which depict a topic that has nothing to do with the country the coin was minted in, I can point to literally hundreds of such coins including many coins from the Perth Mint.




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[Gatito Bandito]

For high-relief, I'm much more into the medals & bars..

And considering this is the coin sub-forum, it would only be fair to keep it to coins -- which I believe many govt mints have a lot of catching up to do with those producers of medals & bars, both in terms of number of releases, as well as craftsmanship & subject matter.


With that said..

Even though I initially criticized it during its launch for various reasons (too pricey, too thick, too jumbled-looking, etc.), I still wouldn't mind owning one of these.

It shows that Perth Mint is already heading in the right direction with this style, and I have hope for them, LOL..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXjP_3oQkWk

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXjP_3oQkWk[/youtube]