HAVE THE PERTH MINT MADE A SWEETHEART DEAL ?

silversearcher

silversearcher

Active Member
Silver Stacker
It has come to light that apparently 300,000 " 2015 1 OZ 999 Kangaroos " were allegedly released to one dealer Coin 'N Things.

http://forums.silverstackers.com/message-923058.html#p923058


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_'N_Things


What appears further evident is that these coins seem to be primarily sold on EBAY USA via "BAY PRECIOUS METALS". Bay Precious Metals is the eBay account of Coins 'N Things. CNT Inc is the largest wholesale gold dealer in the US and sells billions of dollars in gold and silver to the US Mint. What is also interesting is that Gold is obtained from producers in the United States and Canada, with about 40% coming from a refinery owned by the Canadian government. Which puts a question mark on the whole notion whether these coins were minted in Australia ? Or were they outsourced ? If so, It would be bewildering to think why The Perth Mint would do this ? However, CNT Inc does not sound like a competitor, more so a partner.

If true, why have Perth Mint made it apparent that 2016 "1 oz 9999 Kangaroo " was it's first issue ? And are there any allocations left for Australian citizens to purchase the " 2015 1 OZ 999 Kangaroo " ? All of this appears to be some outside deal not known to the public ?

Thanks to Holdfast and Silverbullion for making this topic evident . Hopefully The Perth Mint will shed some light on this subject and sort out this confusion. I'm sure that coin collectors and stackers are aware of this mystery. Members have emailed Perth Mint about this topic, and it will be very interesting to hear what their response will be.
 
No mystery, CNT are the biggest distributor of precious metals in the US. They are Perth Mint's largest customer in North America, and it is public information that CNT hold the exclusive distributorship for Perth Mint gold and platinum products in the US.

FFS, the silver kangaroos were minted in Australia. Treasury wouldn't permit them to be minted overseas. Holdfast has already linked to the Currency Determination in the other thread showing where the 2015 was authorized for minting by Perth Mint in 2015.

Perth Mint and RCM are competitors. They don't interact except at drinks events at trade fairs. CNT are a customer of both.

It is strange however that the entire mintage went offshore - that broke the mould on how some stock is normally held back for Australian distribution when it's an Australian legal tender bullion coin.
 
2015%20Kangaroo%20Currency%20Determination_zpsywbyqzfg.png


https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2015L00651/Explanatory Statement/Text
 
My guess is they were a teaser to get people interested in the unlimited bullion coins to come and open the US market a bit for them.
 
The new question is really the one I raised in the other thread! Where is the Australian percentage of 2015, s that is a requirment for legal tender silver coins privatly minted?

And all due respect GP but you cannot know for sure that the first 4 9 kangas were not minted on outsourced 4 9, s blanks!

Why were the 2015, s minted on 3 9, s? Why not 4 9, s? Why are all other PM silver bullion coins still minted on 3 9, s?

I still believe the FWS was struck on these outsoursed blanks and there is nothing wrong with doing so but PM is hiding something else the minting and un anounced even decieving sale of a 3k limeted silver kangaroo to one US monopoly before its official advertised release date would not be in question.
 
I reckon this is a marketing, legal, production and management stuff up

Originally I suspect that Perth Mint didn't care if Kangaroo was 999 or 9999 and started production with 999.

But sometime later, PM decided to go full world domination mode and create a bullion rivaling the Eagles and maples with 9999 kangaroo.

One issue was 300k 2015 kangaroos already minted, along comes CNT for whatever reason, CNT gets a good deal and PM just off loads the lot.

I'm sure someone internally asked isn't this THE first in the new series but the reply was "nah this is one off 2015 Kangaroo design for CNT" the new first series will be 9999 so no big deal.

To make this even more belivable was the lack of fanfare CNT created wth this "Exclusive" had they know, it could have been a big windfall, I'd imagine.
 
Ipv6Ready said:
I reckon this is a marketing, legal, production and management stuff up

Originally I suspect that Perth Mint didn't care if Kangaroo was 999 or 9999 and started production with 999.

But sometime later, PM decided to go full world domination mode and create a bullion rivaling the Eagles and maples with 9999 kangaroo.

One issue was 300k 2015 kangaroos already minted, along comes CNT for whatever reason, CNT gets a good deal and PM just off loads the lot.

I'm sure someone internally asked isn't this THE first in the new series but the reply was "nah this is one off 2015 Kangaroo design for CNT" the new first series will be 9999 so no big deal.

To make this even more belivable was the lack of fanfare CNT created wth this "Exclusive" had they know, it could have been a big windfall, I'd imagine.
Click to expand...


I would like to see the price paid for the 300K 2015 lot. Bulk lot price discount?

cheer$
 
Ipv6Ready said:
I reckon this is a marketing, legal, production and management stuff up

Originally I suspect that Perth Mint didn't care if Kangaroo was 999 or 9999 and started production with 999.

But sometime later, PM decided to go full world domination mode and create a bullion rivaling the Eagles and maples with 9999 kangaroo.

[ins]One issue was 300k 2015 kangaroos already minted, along comes CNT for whatever reason, CNT gets a good deal and PM just off loads the lot.[/ins]

I'm sure someone internally asked isn't this THE first in the new series but the reply was "nah this is one off 2015 Kangaroo design for CNT" the new first series will be 9999 so no big deal.

To make this even more belivable was the lack of fanfare CNT created wth this "Exclusive" had they know, it could have been a big windfall, I'd imagine.
Click to expand...

They are in the currency determination no stuffing up


CNT get good deal for taking the lot. Just like others coins as well , so they are not listed their mintages. :rolleyes:

No one will no, just sweep away :P
 
Ipv6Ready said:
I reckon this is a marketing, legal, production and management stuff up

Originally I suspect that Perth Mint didn't care if Kangaroo was 999 or 9999 and started production with 999.

But sometime later, PM decided to go full world domination mode and create a bullion rivaling the Eagles and maples with 9999 kangaroo.

One issue was 300k 2015 kangaroos already minted, along comes CNT for whatever reason, CNT gets a good deal and PM just off loads the lot.

I'm sure someone internally asked isn't this THE first in the new series but the reply was "nah this is one off 2015 Kangaroo design for CNT" the new first series will be 9999 so no big deal.

To make this even more belivable was the lack of fanfare CNT created wth this "Exclusive" had they know, it could have been a big windfall, I'd imagine.
Click to expand...

Except cnt already had the 2015s beforet their launch of the 2016, s stating 2016, s as being the first! GP even got one of the first 2016, s, some of them were in 2015 dated presentation boxes.

I personally dont care that much as I only purchased 2 of the seemingly first release deceit whereas if I knew about the 2015 then I would only have purchased 1.

I am also sure a percentage of the huge to date sales would have been lower if all collectors were a where of the 2015 issue privatly minted so an outside company could proffit from exclusive sales and added premiun of the "real first release" of the perth mint silver kangaroo.
 
fishtaco said:
The new question is really the one I raised in the other thread! Where is the Australian percentage of 2015, s that is a requirment for legal tender silver coins privatly minted?

And all due respect GP but you cannot know for sure that the first 4 9 kangas were not minted on outsourced 4 9, s blanks!

Why were the 2015, s minted on 3 9, s? Why not 4 9, s? Why are all other PM silver bullion coins still minted on 3 9, s?

I still believe the FWS was struck on these outsoursed blanks and there is nothing wrong with doing so but PM is hiding something else the minting and un anounced even decieving sale of a 3k limeted silver kangaroo to one US monopoly before its official advertised release date would not be in question.
Click to expand...

Need further explanation ???

Currency (Perth Mint) Determination 2015 (No. 2)
2015 Australian Kangaroo - Commercial Quality - Silver Investor Coin
The design on the 2015 Australian Kangaroo - Commercial Quality (1oz) silver bullion coin, consists of a pattern of shapes representing stylised sunrays surrounding a representation of a kangaroo. The coin includes the micro letter 'A" and the following inscriptions 'AUSTRALIAN KANGAROO' and [ins]'2015 1oz 999 SILVER'.[/ins]


2016 Australian Kangaroo - Commercial Quality - Silver Investor Coin
The design on the 2016 Australian Kangaroo - Commercial Quality (1oz) silver bullion coin, consists of a pattern of shapes representing stylised sunrays surrounding a representation of a kangaroo. The coin includes the micro letter 'A" and the following inscriptions 'AUSTRALIAN KANGAROO' and [ins]'2016 1oz 9999 SILVER'.[/ins]
Click to expand...
 
Yes need further explination!
This information only become know "after " the very recent discovery of the 2015, s ,you act as if you knew there were 2015, s when in fact you only learned about them same time as us and through an ebay sale discovered by another member!

PM can of course start to make light of 2015, s now and only after they were called out!

You also cannot pretend that you yourself wasnt fooled by PM into thinking the 2016, s were the first issue kangaroo!
 
I am reminded of that bit from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"But the plans were on display"
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a flashlight."
"Ah, well, the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard."
Click to expand...
 
fishtaco said:
Yes need further explination!
This information only become know "after " the very recent discovery of the 2015, s ,you act as if you knew there were 2015, s when in fact you only learned about them same time as us and through an ebay sale discovered by another member!

PM can of course start to make light of 2015, s now and only after they were called out!

You also cannot pretend that you yourself wasnt fooled by PM into thinking the 2016, s were the first issue kangaroo!
Click to expand...

The info already there

Just , did anyone read....???

No one fools anyone.... Cos we miss out from reading

The question was raise.... So it got pointed out....

The determination was there all along

Where the coins gone was unknown , until further dug out. Was bought by CNT

Was you Taco refuse to buy them as they have milkspot problem!!! :P
 
Well lets see what the Perth Mint have to say ? A lot of speculation has surrounded this coin of origins and now distribution. Best people pester Perth Mint for a answer, and hopefully they come up with an explanation. If nobody hears from them, then something is up, as silence is golden. Good to hear peoples responses, but some are a tad off tangent.
 
Yep, BB read that link from Holdfast... As GP says, " It is strange however that the entire mintage went offshore - that broke the mould on how some stock is normally held back for Australian distribution when it's an Australian legal tender bullion coin ". I'm looking forward as many are, in why Australians weren't held back a allocation. ;)
 
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