Has low balling reached end game, or is it just a case of no buyers?

sammysilver said:
serial said:
sammysilver said:
I have a different take on this. We have just been through a glorious dip of about 6 months. During this time, true silver stackers bought to the hilt. What was evident at this time was that bullion was not much above spot whilst numis were starting at about 40% above spot. Most stackers are breaking the numi habit. Similarly with gold, outside sovereigns, most stackers are after the pure deal.

I broke the numi habit over a year ago and feel liberated. I have an interest in the new coins, but I won't be buying.
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I don't get this, the "numi habit" has been great for me
I have bought coins for spot or less that have turned out to be worth a great deal more because they are numi. works kind of like a hedge. worse comes to worse I get silver/gold price but I may get an increasing premium on the coin because it is collectable
whereas ASE are just silver and have a limited market
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Yes, but you state you bought numis at spot or less; how many did you buy at +40%?
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about 20% of my collection but one of the coins that I bought in a bulk lot represents 30% of my entire collection
you only have to find 1 ultra rare coin to make up for all the other ones.
plus that +40% is a good reflection of the silver I bought at $35 that is now worth far less where as the numi stuff still sells for the same price
so to put it simply silver goes down I sell for numi price - silver goes up I sell for melt
 
swoydaz said:
serial said:
as this is not a sales thread I would like t comment as well.
the problem with that coin is that it has not coa, no purity markings and is uncommon as hell making me nervous if it is real gold or that I would be able to sell it as so in the future.
now this is not me accusing you of selling fake gold, rather I am simply trying to explain why it is that items that noob stackers like me are comfortable with sell first eg pre decimal, round 50's, sovereigns etc
I lack confidence and avoid buying items that I have no experience in and with a 600 mintage I doubt I will ever handle one
however if you put predecimal up at spot odds are I will be buying it
Click to expand...

Ultrasound test shows it is ok.

I should have noted that.
Click to expand...
swoydaz I didn't mean any offense and hope none was taken. I know you wouldn't sell anything that is not real because you have a good rep here. but should I sell it in the future who is going to believe me?
that is the worry I have when buying rare bullion like that.
I need to know that I can sell it if need be, I pick up a lot of cheap silver from people who didn't think their investment strategy through and didn't think of how they would dispose of the silver they have bought when it is time to
I don't want to find myself in the position where I am at a gold buyers shop accepting 80% of spot on something because I an unable to sell it privately
 
sammysilver said:
serial said:
sammysilver said:
I have a different take on this. We have just been through a glorious dip of about 6 months. During this time, true silver stackers bought to the hilt. What was evident at this time was that bullion was not much above spot whilst numis were starting at about 40% above spot. Most stackers are breaking the numi habit. Similarly with gold, outside sovereigns, most stackers are after the pure deal.

I broke the numi habit over a year ago and feel liberated. I have an interest in the new coins, but I won't be buying.
Click to expand...
I don't get this, the "numi habit" has been great for me
I have bought coins for spot or less that have turned out to be worth a great deal more because they are numi. works kind of like a hedge. worse comes to worse I get silver/gold price but I may get an increasing premium on the coin because it is collectable
whereas ASE are just silver and have a limited market
Click to expand...

Yes, but you state you bought numis at spot or less; how many did you buy at +40%?
Click to expand...

This is a real tricky one - as I am in Perth I am able to get all of the PM stuff direct from the mint shop at issue price. This was great for some of the coins and has not been great for others. I got lunars from there from 09 onwards (when I started collecting). I, like Sammy, am slowly getting out of the numi stuff. The main reason is space and also, my collecting interests lie elsewhere (at the moment perth mint gold sovereigns if anyone has any).

I had a 4 coin dragon typeset (sold recently at issue price), an Ox typeset (can't sell below issue price), some coloured dragon proofs (also can't sell for below issue price) got some snakes and ended up turning them over for what I paid. Selling for issue price on some of those was a win because spot was higher at purchase time then it was when selling so in real terms (if I had bought bullion) I would have been selling at a loss. Investing this same money elsewhere would have been better but that is a different argument all together and not for this thread.

I stayed away from all of the Horse releases except for the 1oz proof (for my proof set). The only thing I have bought since then was the recently released Zeus coin (probably 1 - 2 years between numi purchases).

Generally, I always offer this type of numi stuff for sale on this forum first. Usually, I offer it at less than what I will get from eBay after all fees (a discounted price for the buyer and I really hate eBay). Generally speaking it doesn't sell (the Zeus coin my recent sales thread is a case in point. For sale here for $350 including shipping, sold last night on eBay after about 8 hours for $410 - my end after shipping will be over $350). I got two coins from the mint shop and doubled my money in about 2 weeks, which will probably end up being an extra 2 x 5oz bullion horse or some RCM falcons.

Looking back over all of my sales and purchases I have managed to trade up my purchases and trading this kind of 'numi' stuff has been very good for me. I think you need to know your market and know your coins. As soon as I saw that Zeus coin I knew it would be a winner (the first time I've thought that about a PM release for a long time). I also knew that when I posted it up here for sale I really didn't think it would sell here and I would need to sell on eBay.

It's very hard to be general about these things but I think many members on this forum tend to hold to the view that you should always go for best bang for buck in terms of ounces. I tend to agree to an extent but to stay blindly away from a Zeus coin (just as an example) because it is PM rubbish and you could have got 5oz for the same price is a little short sighted. Would I be buying at $350 in the hope that it goes up further - probably not, but if I could have got more at issue price I certainly would have and this community/forum is pretty good at making people aware of these kinds of opportunities. BB posted a thread on this coin before it took off and most people had the chance to get one or more if they wanted to.

For what's around at the moment my pick of the bunch is the RCM bird of prey series. Available for a pretty reasonable premium with a huge amount of potential upside. These can be got for around $28 a coin and while they may end up with spots, I think (like the RCM wolf) you will probably see some reasonable gains from these in short - mid term. I currently actually don't have any but will be buying some shortly.

Sorry about the long read but that's my take on it all
 
just to be clear I am talking about collectable numi stuff like a piece of eight
not modern numi stuff like a colour lunar coin
I agree with elemental it takes up a heap of space with those huge boxes!
 
serial said:
swoydaz said:
serial said:
as this is not a sales thread I would like t comment as well.
the problem with that coin is that it has not coa, no purity markings and is uncommon as hell making me nervous if it is real gold or that I would be able to sell it as so in the future.
now this is not me accusing you of selling fake gold, rather I am simply trying to explain why it is that items that noob stackers like me are comfortable with sell first eg pre decimal, round 50's, sovereigns etc
I lack confidence and avoid buying items that I have no experience in and with a 600 mintage I doubt I will ever handle one
however if you put predecimal up at spot odds are I will be buying it
Click to expand...

Ultrasound test shows it is ok.

I should have noted that.
Click to expand...
swoydaz I didn't mean any offense and hope none was taken. I know you wouldn't sell anything that is not real because you have a good rep here. but should I sell it in the future who is going to believe me?
that is the worry I have when buying rare bullion like that.
I need to know that I can sell it if need be, I pick up a lot of cheap silver from people who didn't think their investment strategy through and didn't think of how they would dispose of the silver they have bought when it is time to
I don't want to find myself in the position where I am at a gold buyers shop accepting 80% of spot on something because I an unable to sell it privately
Click to expand...

cheers serial, no offence taken by any means.

appreciate your kind thoughts
 
swoydaz said:
The original question remains ;)
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Really want to know ?

Your going to get offended :P

Too many half assed want to be dealers here :D

The dealers who have a physical shop or sell online , are doing well ;)
And way more physical shops around these days compared to 3-4 years ago
:D
 
spannermonkey said:
swoydaz said:
The original question remains ;)
Click to expand...

Really want to know ?

Your going to get offended :P

Too many half assed want to be dealers here :D

The dealers who have a physical shop or sell online , are doing well ;)
And way more physical shops around these days compared to 3-4 years ago
:D
Click to expand...

Sorry to disappoint but I'm not offended.
 
maybe too many have been burnt by the market
and are waiting for a clear direction.
up.
people have had more than enough time to stock up.
I'm still ahead but I got in early.
many got in at a higher price than it is now.
It doesn't breed conference.
 
Peter said:
maybe too many have been burnt by the market
and are waiting for a clear direction.
up.
Click to expand...
NAH
I'm sticking with my conclusion sorry :P
Dealers with shop fronts are doing well ;)
 
no need to rush as silver is not moving ... when it starts moving up it will be sellers market again
for now everybody cherrypicks whatever is the best
only numiz and semi-numiz sellers having nice time ))
 
worldbubble said:
no need to rush as silver is not moving ... when it starts moving up it will be sellers market again
for now everybody cherrypicks whatever is the best
only numiz and semi-numiz sellers having nice time ))
Click to expand...

For every seller there is a ????

Genuine comment btw.
 
spannermonkey said:
Peter said:
maybe too many have been burnt by the market
and are waiting for a clear direction.
up.
Click to expand...
NAH
I'm sticking with my conclusion sorry :P
Dealers with shop fronts are doing well ;)
Click to expand...

Nah is quiet time of year, we only sold 200oz today, very quiet.
 
what spot today,could be less than spot tomorrow and that is what worry buyers...big jump or a big fall...

when silver price was in the $30's I cannot remember any item at spot...these days that is almost the minimum requirement and even for that they are hardly moving...
 
I maybe at cross purposes and probably am.

But someone pointed out to me many years ago that for a sale to have taken place, there must have been a buyer.

And for a purchase to have taken place there must have been a seller.

"Price" is the point at which both parties meet.
 
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