Goldbugs, time to back up your trucks!

I wonder if we shouldn't be cheering the collapse of the fractional gold fraud and hoping for a zero price for paper.
 
Read on:

The long-side speculators who trade paper based claims to gold, silver and other precious metals (futures contracts) are, generally speaking, get-rich-quick schemers. They are the managers of independent hedge funds. They vie for control over the futures markets with institutions that include some of the largest banks in the world and the hedge funds that are owned or operated by current or former executives of those banks. Both long side and short side speculators at futures exchanges, like COMEX in New York, operate at extraordinarily high levels of leverage. The long side speculators are pure gamblers, as they have no influence over central bank policy. In contrast, their opponents take no gambles at all. They are the big international banks that control the world's major central banks and finance ministries.

In spite of repeated complaints, the players in "paper gold" market still set precious metals prices. When I speak of "paper gold" I include silver and platinum, because both of those metals are also traded in the form of futures contracts and futures markets also set their prices. The same dynamic is at work, and a large number of gold traders take heavy cross positions in the two other metals. Although there is not a 100% correlation between the metals, cross positioning generally means that when gold goes up, silver and platinum go up also, regardless of the state of the physical market. Indeed, physical market surpluses and/or shortages end up having little to do with precious metals pricing, at least in the short to medium term.

On October 4, 2016, for no apparent economic reason, the paper gold market was suddenly flooded with fictitious yellow metal. This was likely done by the bullion bank divisions and controlled hedge funds connected to those same international banking firms I mentioned earlier. As noted, the "gold" used for this take down is a work of fiction, as it is with all such take downs. It doesn't exist in the real world. It is purely in the form of paper futures contracts which promise potential delivery of the yellow metal. Exactly how much short selling was required to dislodge long speculators from their positions may never be known, but according to Andrew McGuire, the short sellers managed to "rinse" 1,000 tons of worth of paper gold long positions out of the market.

Those who issue such contracts and the governments that back them know that no more than about % of the speculators who purchase gold for "future delivery" will ever actually collect the physical gold. The rest are just heavily leveraged get-rich-quick schemers. Gold dropped like a stone down $42.80 an ounce, or -3.26%. Similarly, silver was down even more in percentage terms, by $1.01 per ounce, or -5.38%, while platinum dropped by $21 or 2.09%.

By now, some of you may be asking why the bullion bankers can't force gold down to, let's say, $800 an ounce or even a lot less? After all, if they can accomplish so much why not go the rest of the way? The US gold reserve is probably somewhat depleted by now, but it once stood at over 8,100 tons of gold, and probably several thousand tons still remain. The answer is simple. They could push gold down to whatever price they want.

They could set prices at $200 per ounce if they wanted to. Or, even less. But, it would last for only a fleeting moment in history. Perhaps, a day or so. Not more. The problem is that setting such a price would trigger an avalanche of physical buying from purchasers all over the world. The end result: the US Treasury would be on the hook to supply thousands of tons of gold within a few weeks. It would exhaust all its reserves within a few months. The result would be that the system bankers have concocted to manage the price of gold would be proven to be a fraud. Massive failures to deliver would multiply though the marketplace. The credibility of the prices set at futures markets would be destroyed forever.

http://averybgoodman.com/myblog/2016/10/05/why-gold-prices-dropped-so-dramatically-yesterday/
Click to expand...
 
I think there is still a lot of drop left for the year. It's still to high on the latest peak for me to start buying.
 
Lack of demand has become a key issue as silver prices waned after a strong start to 2016.

According to Thomson Reuters GFMS, U.S.-based retail sales volumes for gold and silver bars declined up to 50% in the third quarter of 2016. Another reason - both gold and silver, which don't pay interest rates to investors, are adversely impacted when central banks start floating trial balloons about rising higher interest rates, as the Federal Reserve is doing these days.
 
I love taking a critical look at the rubbish that is ad-hoc cut'n'paste junk:

JulieW said:
Read on:

In spite of repeated complaints, the players in "paper gold" market still set precious metals prices. ......... Indeed, physical market surpluses and/or shortages end up having little to do with precious metals pricing, at least in the short to medium term.

On October 4, 2016, for no apparent economic reason, the paper gold market was suddenly flooded with fictitious yellow metal. ....... As noted, the "gold" used for this take down is a work of fiction, as it is with all such take downs. It doesn't exist in the real world. It is purely in the form of paper futures contracts which promise potential delivery of the yellow metal. Exactly how much short selling was required to dislodge long speculators from their positions may never be known, but according to Andrew McGuire, the short sellers managed to "rinse" 1,000 tons of worth of paper gold long positions out of the market.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

So, "paper" gold, or "fictitious yellow metal" has no bearing on physical supplies.
OK. Got it.

And "the paper gold market was suddenly flooded with fictitious yellow metal", which, "according to Andrew McGuire, the short sellers managed to "rinse" 1,000 tons of worth of paper gold long positions out of the market."
OK. Got it.
Is this statement implying the gold price was fictitiously supported at a synthetically high price by these "1,00's of tonnes of paper gold long positions"?
Anyhow, moving forward. :)

By now, some of you may be asking why the bullion bankers can't force gold down to, let's say, $800 an ounce or even a lot less? After all, if they can accomplish so much why not go the rest of the way? ..... The problem is that setting such a price would trigger an avalanche of physical buying from purchasers all over the world. The end result: the US Treasury would be on the hook to supply thousands of tons of gold within a few weeks. It would exhaust all its reserves within a few months. ..... Massive failures to deliver would multiply though the marketplace.
Click to expand...

So, "setting" a low price using "paper gold" would "trigger an avalanche of physical buying from purchasers all over the world" and "It would exhaust all its reserves within a few months".
OK. Got it.

HANG ON!
I thought you said: "paper" gold, or "fictitious yellow metal" has no bearing on physical supplies."?

:lol:
:rolleyes:
 
I think what he is saying is if the price was that low, there would be a rush to redeem for physical.

It's all irrelevant anyway. It's out of our control and the only thing we trade on right now is the paper price and right now that price has taken a big hit.
 
Abossy said:
I think what he is saying is if the price was that low, there would be a rush to redeem for physical.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is exactly what he was saying.

Abossy said:
It's all irrelevant anyway. It's out of our control and the only thing we trade on right now is the paper price and right now that price has taken a big hit.
Click to expand...
Paper price is physical price. To try and discriminate between the two is a fools game... they are joined at the hip by arbitrage.
 
Think about it.... if paper price and physical price was different by 10% in one way or another, what would you do?

Especially as you, I or anyone or institution can convert paper to physical by its nature, why won't everyone take advantage of it.
 
Ipv6Ready said:
Think about it.... if paper price and physical price was different by 10% in one way or another, what would you do?
Click to expand...

Where is this 'physical price' you talk about ? Where would I get access to this 'physical market' that has it's own price ?



wrcmad said:
Paper price is physical price.
Click to expand...

Yes there is only the paper price because the only commodities markets are futures markets.
 
Ok, so who is actually backing up the truck on these recent price crashes?
Or will it end up being the same as the people (almost everyone on here it seemed) who was saying that silver was going to crash even lower back at US$14 and then it never happened?
 
trew said:
Ipv6Ready said:
Think about it.... if paper price and physical price was different by 10% in one way or another, what would you do?
Click to expand...

Where is this 'physical price' you talk about ? Where would I get access to this 'physical market' that has it's own price ?



wrcmad said:
Paper price is physical price.
Click to expand...

Yes there is only the paper price because the only commodities markets are futures markets.
Click to expand...

W Davis Buy and sell just now.
Spot at AUD 1656.92

1 Sovereign $399 $430
1/2 Sovereign $199 $215
200 Dollar Coin $500 $537
1 Oz Nugget $1,685 $1,728
1/2 Oz Nugget $842 $870
1/4 Oz Nugget $421 $440
1/10 Oz Nugget $168 $183
1/20 Oz Nugget $84 $92
4 Coin Nugget Set $3,118 $3,219
5 Coin Nugget Set $3,203 $3,306
 
JulieW said:
trew said:
Ipv6Ready said:
Think about it.... if paper price and physical price was different by 10% in one way or another, what would you do?
Click to expand...

Where is this 'physical price' you talk about ? Where would I get access to this 'physical market' that has it's own price ?



wrcmad said:
Paper price is physical price.
Click to expand...

Yes there is only the paper price because the only commodities markets are futures markets.
Click to expand...

W Davis Buy and sell just now.
Spot at AUD 1656.92

1 Sovereign $399 $430
1/2 Sovereign $199 $215
200 Dollar Coin $500 $537
1 Oz Nugget $1,685 $1,728
1/2 Oz Nugget $842 $870
1/4 Oz Nugget $421 $440
1/10 Oz Nugget $168 $183
1/20 Oz Nugget $84 $92
4 Coin Nugget Set $3,118 $3,219
5 Coin Nugget Set $3,203 $3,306
Click to expand...
Given the number of threads already covering it, do we really have to revisit the manufacturing premium again? :|
 
wrcmad said:
Abossy said:
I think what he is saying is if the price was that low, there would be a rush to redeem for physical.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is exactly what he was saying.

Abossy said:
It's all irrelevant anyway. It's out of our control and the only thing we trade on right now is the paper price and right now that price has taken a big hit.
Click to expand...
Paper price is physical price. To try and discriminate between the two is a fools game... they are joined at the hip by arbitrage.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up
 
JulieW said:
trew said:
Ipv6Ready said:
Think about it.... if paper price and physical price was different by 10% in one way or another, what would you do?
Click to expand...

Where is this 'physical price' you talk about ? Where would I get access to this 'physical market' that has it's own price ?



wrcmad said:
Paper price is physical price.
Click to expand...

Yes there is only the paper price because the only commodities markets are futures markets.
Click to expand...

W Davis Buy and sell just now.
Spot at AUD 1656.92

1 Sovereign $399 $430
1/2 Sovereign $199 $215
200 Dollar Coin $500 $537
1 Oz Nugget $1,685 $1,728
1/2 Oz Nugget $842 $870
1/4 Oz Nugget $421 $440
1/10 Oz Nugget $168 $183
1/20 Oz Nugget $84 $92
4 Coin Nugget Set $3,118 $3,219
5 Coin Nugget Set $3,203 $3,306
Click to expand...


W. Davis doesn't answer the phone let alone sell anything. It's like the Black Books of bullion.

"I'd like to buy some gold please."

"Get out of my shop!"


Any other examples?
 
"Black Books" of Bullion.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVGdhAetJaQ[/youtube]
 
W Davis is a convenient live price list I think. If GoldStackers had one it would probably be used, but W Davis is easy to quote.
 
JulieW said:
W Davis Buy and sell just now.
Spot at AUD 1656.92
Click to expand...

All the prices on his website are based on the spot price from the futures market with margins added/subtracted.
As the futures spot price changes so do those prices.
Just like pretty much every other price you will find online.


Going way off topic but W Davis was the dealer of choice when I started stacking.
Even if he's not very active these days the website still keeps chugging along.
 
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