Gold or Silver or Both?

[Kawa]

I'm older than you so my attitude to investing is different.I'm 15 years from official retirement and I like the idea of solid income streams.

Also remember that when you buy high yielding ASX shares likes Banks and Infrastructure stocks the dividend payments rarely reduce year to year in my experience irrespetive of their price.

So if you are essentially long in PM's it makes sense to have a similar view with shares?

The Big 4 Oz banks survived the GFC very well and actually came out stronger due to the weighting in their re capitalization through 08/09.

 

[kkkrazy]

theres the old saying a man sold his pickup truck to buy some silver,then realized he needed his pickup to carry it.but even tho cumbersome to carry a snatch and grab thief will be handicapped,my preference yellow because of the compact large value.fortune favours the brave(swift).

 

[Club2USilver]

This ended up being two threads, so I am having two queries, like a true punter i will go each way on the thing i like

Firstly, Emanance could i ask which process you followed to setup the SMSF? via an agent or one of the you beaut online mobs?
Also, in your opinion given you know the setup and maintenance costs, what would be the minimum amount of capital to start an SMSF with?

Secondly, Ilikemetals
What is FOFOA acronym standing for?
And do you have any other literature on the arguments FOR and AGAINST silver stacking, or are there any good threads on here i should look at

 

[wrcmad]

And do you have any other literature on the arguments FOR and AGAINST silver stacking, or are there any good threads on here i should look at

FOR:

AGAINST:

 

[BrickInTheWall]

Also, in your opinion given you know the setup and maintenance costs, what would be the minimum amount of capital to start an SMSF with?

I set a SMSF up via my accountant a number of years ago. He said that $200K was about the minimum that should be in a SMSF, so as to keep the accounting and reporting fees as a lower percentage than a retail fund. He has also mentioned that the ATO doesn't like a SMSF to have less than $200K, but I don't believe they can stop you setting up a fund with less.

I set my fund up with only about $40K, and it took me a few years to get it above $200K. A SMSF can be time consuming, especially when making decisions about asset allocation, and when to buy, sell and hold, etc (especially the past few years !!) ... but it has been a great learning experience.

 

[wrcmad]

Also, in your opinion given you know the setup and maintenance costs, what would be the minimum amount of capital to start an SMSF with?

I set a SMSF up via my accountant a number of years ago. He said that $200K was about the minimum that should be in a SMSF, so as to keep the accounting and reporting fees as a lower percentage than a retail fund. He has also mentioned that the ATO doesn't like a SMSF to have less than $200K, but I don't believe they can stop you setting up a fund with less.

I set my fund up with only about $40K, and it took me a few years to get it above $200K. A SMSF can be time consuming, especially when making decisions about asset allocation, and when to buy, sell and hold, etc (especially the past few years !!) ... but it has been a great learning experience.

+1 ^^

Now days you can set up a SMSF with a lower minimum, cause the maint. costs are a lot less. After being recommended on this forum (and after doing my own homework) I used http://www.esuperfund.com.au. It is easy, cheap, and you can buy PM's.

 

[Emanance]

This ended up being two threads, so I am having two queries, like a true punter i will go each way on the thing i like

Firstly, Emanance could i ask which process you followed to setup the SMSF? via an agent or one of the you beaut online mobs?
Also, in your opinion given you know the setup and maintenance costs, what would be the minimum amount of capital to start an SMSF with?

Secondly, Ilikemetals
What is FOFOA acronym standing for?
And do you have any other literature on the arguments FOR and AGAINST silver stacking, or are there any good threads on here i should look at

I used eSuperfund, I found the process quite quick, easy and free (at time of posting). The most difficult thing was I had to get a shite load of Justice of the Peace signatures, so that was a couple of visits to the courthouse, no big deal really. As for costs eSuperfund are running a deal where in the $699 set up fee is waived! and the first financial years auditing fee is also waived (another $699) So all I will have to pay in July of 2013 is $180 to the Australian Tax Office for the auditing levy. I won't have to pay eSuperfund a their $699 auditing fee until January 2014.
As both my wife and I are members of this SMSF we are able to split the expenses 2 ways, so that will ultimately work out to $440 each per year. However you can split the costs upto 4 ways as you are allowed to have upto 4 members in a SMSF.
As for the minimum amount to make this a viable option... Mine and my wife's retail fund where losing us EACH about $1000 pear year in mismanagement and their crazy expensive fee structure. I looked back over my statements at how much these operators were skimming each year, and it seemed to be increasing the more money we had in these accounts. I compared a loss of $2000 each year to $880, I would rather take the $880 loss. Between my wife and I our joint balance will be less than $50k. Therefore I believe it would still prove viable for an individual with only $25k.
Just bare in mind it is a massive responsibility to run a SMSF. Mismanagement and non compliance carries massive fines, tax penalties and even imprisonment. You have to commit yourself to learn about it and research it thoroughly. This can be very rewarding though. Make it your 'hobby' even. Just commit yourself to run it completely separately to any other investments you have so auditing won't be a hassel, follow the rules exactly and never take your eye off the ball.
Not trying to scare you off or anything, it's just not something you can go into lightheartedly. This is perhaps the biggest financial decision you can make. I know it will be for me.
I can't remember who said it but it went a little like this: The role of Retail superannuation funds in our economy is very similar to the role of plankton in the ocean. They serve mainly as food for Wall Street whales. At least with a SMSF your finances have a chance of evolving into something with a backbone

FOFOA according to this site: http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/freegold/ it stands for Friend Of A Friend Of Another. There is also this blog http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/.

My Silver go to places to keep on the pulse are of course this fine forum.
The epic www.brotherjohnf.com news site, his daily updates are quite on the pulse, but his forecasts are a bit off in my opinion though.
And the usual suspects: www.zerohedge.com, www.maxkeiser.com
And if you want to get a bit spiritual about stacking Chris Duanes http://thegreatesttruthnevertold.com/ is well worth a look. In fact I originally looked at stacking as a means to change the world because of Chris's 'Denial' video introduction to his 'academy' All 59 videos, well worth the play through in my opinion.

Disclaimer time: I am not a financial accountant, professional or adviser. All my responses are my opinions! Do your own research and due diligence to make the correct necessarily decisions unique to your own personal circumstances.

 

[FritzH]

I've finally got our SMSF set up, and hoping mine & my wife's rollover cheques arrive real soon while the prices of both Gold & Silver are so favorable. The big question is do we go Gold, Silver, or Both?

I think ultimately we will settle on a percentage between to two. Looking over the last 10 years the Gold to Silver Ratio at 58:1 is just right now at to justify a 50/50 split between to two.

But just thinking out loud and considering all the talk of the Basel III Accords roll out starting in 2013 with abolition of Tier 3 Capital and the (supposed) reclassification of Gold as Tier 1 Capital, one would think that gold will see a sharp jump in its spot price once (and if) this is confirmed. If this Tier 1 reclassification of Gold proves to be correct, we would be silly not to position ourselves 100% (or at least go 80/20) in gold and capitalisze on golds theoretical climb away from silver in the short term shortly before the fiat currency bubble finally (explodes) bursts.

But this talk of fiat currency collapse brings me to Poor mans Gold (Silver). Unlike Gold, Silver is nearly half it's historical record price, And in any hyper inflationary fiat currency collapse scenario, it would have no option but to skyrocket and close the gap between itself and gold. Gold's price will simply be too inaccessible to the majority of people in the short term early days of a fiat currency collapse, so silver will be the only viable alternative. Although I believe silvers cheaper price advantage over gold will be short term due to shortages created by decades of Silver's industrial use and it's extremely low recovery rate from recycling (only 16%). In fact I've read that at this point in time there is more gold in refined usable form on the planet right now than silver. Theoretically this could lead to a 1:1 Gold to Silver Ratio! In this scenario you would kick yourself if you hadn't position yourself with a higher percentage in silver.

I guess with the right timing around global events, one could easily switch in and out between to two metals, and do quite well by closely watching the GSR.

But if you could snap your fingers and invest say $25,000 in Gold or Silver or Both, would you go all in with one metal over the other, or a ratio, and what would that ratio be?

I think silver is still a good choice for investment. That's my personal opinion. But it's still your call.