Gold at ATH.....what do your tea leaves say?

The tea leaves have spoken, the price of gold (currently $3825/oz $AUD) is:

  • In bubble territory - a correction is imminent, but buying the dip is a good idea.

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Overvalued - its time to start selling and continue doing so. Bear market on the horizon.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Plateauing - minimal movement expected from here on.

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • Undervalued - This is a great buying opportunity.

    Votes: 5 31.3%
  • I dont drink tea.

    Votes: 7 43.8%

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
I'm trying to get to my claim this week to do some camping and digging with a bud and my dog.
If i get some nice gold I'll take pics but last time I was out there in could only get within about 2 miles. We were planning to hike with the dogs and I wanted to go upstream further to pan so we did that. Maybe we can get in there now with all the gear and it will be easy or it may just be a day trip again.
The snow has been melting fast, snowboard season is almost over and it's time to get the rc cars in tip top shape so i can play with my toys whoohoo!
Let's go gold!! I need a badass crawler now!
 
Hello folks.
I've said this once over a decade ago: gold does nothing, it's people buying and selling it that do.
According to gold.org data, 2024 was the 3rd consecutive year that central banks (that exist to battle speculants that try to preserve the purchasing power they earnt) purchased over 1000 tonnes.
That's even more than the occasional record 600 tonnes they annually purchased a decade ago.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1222333/000095012309004971/y01161sv3asr.htm
OFFICIAL SECTOR SALES
Historically, central banks have retained gold as a strategic reserve asset. However, since 1989 the official sector has been a net seller of gold to the private sector, supplying an average of 407 tonnes per year from 1989 to 2007. This has resulted in net movements of gold from the official to the private sector. Owing to the prominence given by market commentators to this activity and the size of official sector gold holdings, this area has been one of the more visible sources of supply.

Central bank & other institutions
- positive figure means total net = selling
- negative figure means total net = buying
year / tonnes / average gold price that year / estimated cost per tonne based on average gold price

1997 326 $330.98
1998 363 $294.24
1999 477 $278.88
2000 479 $279.11
2001 520 $271.04
2002 547 $309.73
2003 620 $363.38
2004 479 $409.72
2005 663 $444.74
2006 365 $603.46
2007 484 $695.39
2008 235 $871.96
2009 34 $972.35
2010 -79.2 $1224.53
2011 -480.8 $1571.52
2012 -569.3 $1668.98
2013 -623.8 $1411.23
2014 -583.9 $1211.71
2015 -576.5 $1160.06
2016 -389.8 $1250.74
2017 -374.8 $1257.12
2018 -651.5

During the nineties they sold gold from their stock - at a "limit" high enough to keep the gold price low, as low as < $300 an ounce.
Price is now 10 times that, and now they buy >1000 tonnes annually.

While they don't need gold at all - in the early 70's the US regime digged the dollarfixed price, and before, they'd had banned people 40 years from possessing gold other than ancient coins / relics.
Since 2020 regimes started to sabotage the economy (first excuse their sponsored Wuhan lab-gained-of-function virus, further excuses russian and other viruses, sabotages now lasting 5 years, after a decade of price stability, causing increases, making these permanent by forcing increased minimum wages and a plethora of other limits.

The regimes will continue what they started in 2020, until they reached their goal of watering existing money, along with frontrunning speculants while suggesting doom to trick them into selling in the bottom range and cheer to trick them into buying at the top range.
5 years is not that much, typical central planned cycles last double that, it takes time to convince speculants and frontrunning requires rinse and repeats, so the warmongering will likely continue till 2030.

And by then of course, speculants will need again dollars instead of gold, to buy the stuff they intended, and the regimes will return from buying gold back to selling gold too, like in the nineties.
After inflicting less ounces for the dollars, inflicting less dollars for the ounces.

They don't have silver stocks anymore, why I chosed silver, for what it matters, because if regimes notice that the price ratio favors silver, they ofc support the gold price, to compensate this drive at speculants.
Because as said, that's why central banks exist: to compensate the effects of what speculants do, to fight them.

Gold drives on bad news.
Central banks cause that bad news.
Gold sinks on good news.
Central banks cause good news by stopping causing bad news.

That's why peace in the world "too soon" is highly undesired by regimes, and why Mister Trump, whose blahblah promised peace, was/is gets tagged as Dare Devil Danger Democracykiller and Doomsbringer.

Since what central banks = regimes do on the gold market depends on what speculants do on the gold market, this topics question is like questioning yourself.
Speculants decide where the price of gold goes too, central banks then mimic their actions.
So, ask yourself the question, are you willing to pay for ex $5000 for 1 ounce gold?
If not, be wary of thinking other people will.
The moment that all speculants ask eachother, indicates doubt, which is the harbinger of pessimism, which is the harbinger of hammering sell buttons.
Some manage to cut losses short, most don't.
Because regimes always move property from large majorities to small minorities.

A way to judge a price, is comparing it to house prices, because a house tends to be peoples biggest lifetime spending.
Before 2000, other prices were driven up, gold wasn't, because of regimes and existing 70's gold speculants selling gold as much as new speculants bought. After 2000, regimes started wars (based on false claims) against Irak and others, and, as has always been, produced new dollars to finance it.
That drove prices up (house price doubled), speculants saw their dollars watering (regimes forced down deposito rates), and started to convert dollars to gold. Regimes did the same, driving the gold price up twice as fast, inflicting speculants half the ounces they would have had without.
Then in 2008, the regimes central banks decided to swicht from "losening" to "tighten", but advertised it as losening (Quantitative Easing operations paid banks to NOT lend out money, by an interest rate on reserves (held at the central bank) that they set higher than the rate depositors received.
In the US, Fed paying banks on the as "excess reserve" tagged money, was technically forbidden by law, but no problem, they fixed that a year before they started the tightening and brought the crisis, in 2007, by inverting words in the definition of excess reserves.

House prices are now rising again, that is, speculants became willing to pay more, or, lacked the choice, in the expectation of further rises.
But it's not about the direction, it's about the ratio.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS
Average US house price was at the start of going to war $210K.
In 2024 it was $500K. That's +150%
Gold $300 to $3000 is +900%
But, one has to take into account the history before that history.
House 1980 to 2000 went * 3
Gold 1980 to 2000 went * 0.3 (that's worser than nowhere)
So gold was in 2000 undervalued to house almost 10 times.

For a speculant that in 2000 swapped his saved dollars for gold (the best moment in generations - since possessing gold was made illegal since early '30's (reason US regime didn't want speculants profit from their forced $20 > $34 refixing) until early '70's and what you don't have you cannot sell) to 25 years later swap gold back to dollars to buy a house, makes the deal of a lifetime.

Look at the topics voting results.
Not many votes, but still, none voted "overvalued / time to start selling and continuing to do so"
(Btw, the latter makes no sense, because if you think the price is a peak, of course you sell all in one go, in order to have the technical (trade resolution) max possible ounces sold within the highest price range)
None votes "overvalued", since in order to be at the winning site, you have to do the opposite of what most do, so this topics voting results are loud screaming SELL SELL SELL ASAP.

Afterwards, in some future, at what will turn out to have been the bottom, you'll read that the worst is yet to come, that you should wait to buy, that you should go slow, while it should have been BUY BUY BIY ASAP.

And why?
Because those that sell ounces high, need suckers to buy ounces high.
And afterwards, need suckers to sell ounces low.

It's often said that in stocks, gold and everything the long term matters, and that the latest gyrations do not count.
Yet, every day, a thousand experts measure the latest gyrations, to then deliver advice on what they so called think is next.
Somethings wrong here eh? :p
 
Gold is out of reach for most NPCs now.
It always becomes unaffordium during the collapse of currencies.
There hasn't been much need for cbs to buy gold until recently with all the cracks forming and disaster on the horizon.
I don't think 5k is high at all in the grand scheme of things comparing aircoins and real estate, the bubble markets etc.
 
Central banks switched around the year 2009 from selling gold to buying gold.
Last year 2024 was thus the 15th year in a row that they bought gold from the market, one can easily sum up the annual figures, it's > 8000 tonnes re-added since 2010.
And they don't need it. Already not since early seventies.
Peoples trust in currencies is not based on gold.
Expecting central banks to again fix gold price, giving gold speculators profit in terms of purchasing power, is not realistic to expect.
It has been proven in the past that they did not. As said in previous post, US regime banned people from possessing it. For 40 years, starting during the Great Depression.
They now don't need to do that, since gold isn't fixed in price, unlike then.
All central banks need to do to make gold speculants loose, is when these sell gold, sell gold too, with the same price impact as during the buy gold period, but inverted.
During the bull period, a gold speculant received half the ounces for the dollars.
So, during the bear period, he'll receive half the dollars for the ounces.
Directly mathematical, or, superimposed on the general prices - inflation trend.
For example, even if he would receive the same amount dollars for the ounces, that same amount will buy half of what it could have bought instead of gold.
 
In contrast to @Pirocco's thesis that CBs don't need to hold gold reserves therefore any purchases or sales they make is designed to manipulate retail behaviour is the argument that CBs buy and sell gold in order to manage risks associated with their balance sheets, ie their currencies, financial institutions and markets.

CB gold purchasing/selling is not intended to fleece funds from the retail sector, nor is it a policy designed to force domestic users of currencies into some nefarious economic endgame where the ultimate outcome for them is a loss.

Therefore his decision to invest in silver rather than gold is built upon faulty premises. I'm happy to expand on my assumptions if anyone is interested. I just wanted to point out briefly that I consider @Pirocco's line of reasoning faulty.
 
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In contrast to @Pirocco's thesis that CBs don't need to hold gold reserves therefore any purchases or sales they make is designed to manipulate retail behaviour is the argument that CBs buy and sell gold in order to manage risks associated with their balance sheets, ie their currencies, financial institutions and markets.

CB gold purchasing/selling is not intended to fleece funds from the retail sector, nor is it a policy designed to force domestic users of currencies into some nefarious economic endgame where the ultimate outcome for them is a loss.

Therefore his decision to invest in silver rather than gold is built upon faulty premises. I'm happy to expand on my assumptions if anyone is interested. I just wanted to point out briefly that I consider @Pirocco's line of reasoning faulty.
There is no reasoning, it's just what figures proved.
In the period central banks sell, the gold price is low.
In the period central banks buy, the gold price is high
That is the opposite of a speculants motive - buy low sell high.
A speculant hunts gains on gold.
A central bank hunts losses on gold.
Because these losses are compensated for with the speculants lost dollars, that is, competing purchasing power that central banks got rid of.
The risk of governments is speculants, and their management of this risk (what you do not detail here) is precisely compensating for what speculants do.
Speculants that want to swap dollars for gold, compensated for by making gold more expensive, so that speculants receive less ounces. This way they limit the amount gold that speculants receive.
And vice versa, speculants that want to swap gold back for dollars, governments do the same, causing the speculants to receive less dollars by making gold cheaper.

The futures market (Comex) also exist to battle speculants.
They do so by putting orders that drive the price up, to then cancel or cancelling out (adding 1 short to 1 long equals no position, no price effect) the orders, thereby undoing the price up.
This way, they evade losses (and also windfall profits) due to speculators trade.
"Hedging".
 
Therefore his decision to invest in silver rather than gold is built upon faulty premises.
Remember the Quantitative Easenings?
Back then, the precious metals business proclaimed that it was money printing, and that result would be high inflation, and that precious metal would help you avoiding purchasing power loss.
The reality was the opposite, it was "tightening" instead of "loosening".
After years spending new dollars (loosening) on war on terror, rampant inflation (doubling house prices) due to it, they cut it off, again tightened, but made it look like further loosening.
It was instead tightening, the Fed paid banks to NOT lend out.
The Fed chosed to use the Excess Reserves balance to put the "new" money in, and included this balance in the Monetary Base, making it appear expanded. But that part wasn't circulating, it stayed parket at the accounts of banks at the central banks, and why, because the Fed paid them a rate higher than the market rate, in order to leave it there.
And later on, the Fed just destroyed the new dollars, electronic dollars created, then destroyed, with only the low interest rate the Fed paid as actually available for spending.
And indeed, that high inflation didn't occur.
Only after the economic sabotage in 2020, explained as antivirus, inflation reappeared.

Remember the claim of the precious metals business that QE1 had been 16 trillion instead of the official 1.2 trillion?
That was so called discovered by a GAO investigation that Bernie Sanders put on his site.
And that would result in even higher than before claimed inflation.
Reality: a scam, the 1.2 trillion was the not term-adjusted blind sum of loans totalling 16 trillion, thus completely ignoring paybacks for loans.
The scam was a way to trick people into buying high.
That it was high, has been proven, golds price returned to the $1200-$1500 price range.
It was only the economic sabotage in 2020, that made people again willing to pay more.
And later on, again economic sabotage (trade restrictions with Russia, China, ...)

A story that repeated since a century.
For ex, Lyndon B. Johnsons Vietnam War and War on Poverty, big spendings of new dollars, without buying more gold to back them, resulting in loss of confidence in the dollar, resulting in other currencies governments using their Bretton Woods right to swap their dollars for gold, resulting in the US regime to dump the right, without dollar fixing, they did allow speculants to buy gold.
Just a couple years later, their OPEC, with Israels war as excuse, rationed oil production, causing shortage, driven up prices and rampant inflation.
https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart
Golds inflation adjusted price tenfolded between 1970 and 1980.
The very same situation as today, see the chart.
And you know what inflation adjusted price means eh.
It means a higher value = profit in terms of purchasing power.
The thing is, profit is always grabbed.
It's the same principle of the futures markets working, the reason the spot price is driven towards the forward price, by giving free money as long as it differs. It's what causes "arbitration" to occur spontaneously.

The thing now is, to grab profit, one needs another willing to pay the profitable price.
And that's the motive for the misleading.
The same as in the stock market. The first thing that people hear when they ask the bank about their paper losses is that stocks are for the long term. Yet, every day, every gyration, experts analyze. Somethings wrong eh?

Near the end of a bull market, it's all positivity, the top 20 winning investments of the year and so on.
And when the bear pops up, it's all negativity, a couple percents down gets called a plunge, 20% is apocalypse and at the end of the bear market, 70% is now nations are in danger of default.
While in fact, that end is the best moment in a generation to buy.

And why? Because a trade requires a buyer and a seller.
One that wants to sell at the peak, needs a sucker to buy at the peak.
One that wants to buy at the bottom, needs a sucker to sell at the bottom.
It's as obvious as that.
 
QE is not inflationary. Sure it inflates the price of assets but it's just an asset swap ie money already in existence (reserves) for bonds. There is no new money created.
 
The effect of QE on balance sheets if the central bank were to buy $50 billion in bonds from a bank:

Screenshot 2025-03-26 at 8.53.15 pm.png
 
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Now if the precious metals industry wants to run with a line that QE is inflationary in order to convince unsuspecting retail investors to part with their money for gold or silver then it's either because it's acting nefariously or it's just plain stupid (yeh ok, it could actually give a shit about others). I'm in the camp that it acts as a whole nefariously (and yeh again, there's going to be individual exceptions), after all what industry doesn't promote self-interest? And you can chuck our pollies and our media into the same boat.

But that doesn't mean that CB buying or selling is part of a plan to manipulate the price of gold and investment behaviour which was the crux of your argument. Monetary policy is just what central bankers do. It's what they're paid to do. And if they don't do it then maybe they won't get paid. They believe that what they're doing is enacting responsible policy decisions, and if they don't make those decisions they fear the outcomes. Both on a professional and personal level. Real or imagined. Based in fact or simply just fiction that can be disregarded.

Price inflation on the other hand is a fiscal phenomenon.
 
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Bonds are just a form of money. So in the example above prior to QE there was $100 billion of "money" in the banking system in the form of bonds. After QE there is still $100 billion of "money" in the banking system made up of $50 billion in bonds and $50 billion in reserves held on the balance sheet of the CB. No extra money has been created.
 
No doubt that central banks actions influence gold prices, it's the intent behind their actions that remains a point of contention....and always will be. I try to block out the noise and just keep stacking :D

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Well i found some old snuffer bottles in my camping gear yesterday and there was gold if that makes you guys feel any better.

Impressive..... To think, that was probably there for eons before you laid your eyes on it. Well done mate.
 
No doubt that central banks actions influence gold prices, it's the intent behind their actions that remains a point of contention....and always will be.

Absolutely. They manipulate the cash rate in order to influence the bond market, and either expand (QE) or contract (QT) their balance sheet in an attempt to influence lending. This has a direct impact on the value of all assets.

I think the days of monetary policy dominance over fiscal are drawing to a close. Trump and Bessent are certainly hurrying that along (the EU is of course is more stubborn) and we'll see a return to a more Keynesian based regime where fiscal policy becomes the main economic tool used to manipulate economic conditions.

In Australia our politicians don't have a mind of their own so they'll just follow what's happening overseas, though personally I'm happy to see Keynesian traditions as opposed to the Monetarist and New Consensus schools which are the dominant paradigms currently.
 
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Future targets in gold are hidden within the strength of the gold miners. Gold miners in my opinion have now finalised being accumulated and now on their way higher - much higher - which would mean the underlying commodity is going to soar.

NEM is my guage on this, being the largest gold miner it behaves... very interestingly lets just say that. I've never seen a stock behave to precision concepts that are mainly used in futures markets, but Newmont does. Meaning there is some very very high-level players interested in the company.
 
QE is not inflationary. Sure it inflates the price of assets but it's just an asset swap ie money already in existence (reserves) for bonds. There is no new money created.
The QE total amount is not lend out by banks because the central bank pays them to NOT lend it out, as a method to curb price increases aka a "tightening" cycle.
The only prices that rise are due to misled speculants, that THINK QE1=1200 billion is gonna be spent on stuff, and due to that thought, become willing to pay more for speculative monetary products like gold silver and anything chosed to store value.
But prices of stuff did NOT rise, only the speculative products, meaning profit in terms of purchasing power, and profit is grabbed by the first that sell, at the loss of the last that sell. It's just a owner shift, based on misleading in order to frontrun out and back in.

The basis to decide what to do, buy sell or nothing, is nor gold or whatever speculated upon itself, but what others do, including banks / central banks.
The frontunners gain or loss is entirely dependent on what all the others trading it do.
One can predict the end of the world tomorrow, if nobody sells, the price stays, and the predictor can't buy back in lower and thus no second ride rinse & repeat.
The weather can be forecasted quite accurately. Because of detections and measurements. Ex, to rain, it needs at least a cloud above you. Regardless what you do, it's gonna rain.
A market is the opposite, if people leave umbrellas at home then it's not gonna rain, whatever you told them.
So what do your tea leaves say: nothing. Your gain or loss depends totally on what others do, central banks are the biggest gold traders out there, and their history shows them doing the precise opposite of what speculants do, simply because that is their existence reason: to fight speculators in order to make these fail / to undo the price effects they caused. Central banks block market corrections, block bankrupties of bad companies.
 
My new gold forecast.
$6250-6500 aud an ounce mid 2026
Approximately another 30% increase from today.
I could be wrong, it possibly could go much higher.
Pump up the jam!
Happy stacking everyone
A flashback 2011, links don't work anymore but quotes included:

https://www.kitcomm.com/search.php?...rteronly=1&exactname=1&searchuser=theplantguy Page 4 is the period.
STAGE 1: PERMABULL - TRICKING PEOPLE TO BUY THE PRICE HIGHER:
$38 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=79452 04 april 2011 "Great way to start the week......don't you think?"
$39 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=79517 05 april 2011 "39 ...One more step up the ladder"
$40 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=79723 07 april 2011 "Thursday..............Yet another up day"
$41 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=80243 13 april 2011 "Hump Day...........Up Day"
$42 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=80318 14 april 2011 "Killer Thursday............Movin' on up"
$43 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=80419 15 april 2011 "A Fabulous Friday............Great Finish For The Week"
$44 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=80679 19 april 2011 "Monday.........Up Up and Away"
$45.5 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=80932 20 april 2011 "A Whale of a Wednesday............45+"
$46.50 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=81069 21 april 2011 "A Thundering Thursday...............Look at that puppy go!!"

STAGE 2: GRAB PROFIT AT THE HIGHER PRICE:
$49.50 25 april 2011 (morning) PEAK 1

STAGE 3: TRANSFORMATION PROCESS BETWEEN PERMABULL AND PERMABEAR:
(including 1 change-mind due to a double top occurrence)
$46 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?81423-How-is-this-morning-for-a-little-reality 25 april 2011 10:13 AM "How is this morning for a little reality?"
OW PRICE RETURNS TO HIGH LET'S SWAP BACK TO PERMABULL:
$48 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=81462 25 april 2011 04:09 PM "Monday Mayhem.............Y'all survive? Monday Mayhem............Y'all survive? What a day. Actually, not all that bad. The long term trend is still up. Just a minor bump. A "little" more volatility than usual."
$46 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=81576 26 april 2011 "A downturn of 2 days or 2 weeks is not significant in the over all scope of things"
$49.50 28 april 2011 PEAK 2
$48 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=81937 29 april 2011 "Silver..........Something to consider"
$44 1 may 2011 SECOND PROFITGRAB / NOW THEY ALL GET OUT

STAGE 4: PERMABEAR - TRICKING PEOPLE INTO SELLING LOWER:
$33 https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread....never-going-to-sell-what-benefit-is-it-to-you 7 may 2011 "Silver...If you are never going to sell, what benefit is it to you?"

ADDENDUM: A LITTLE POST-PROFITGRAB (POST-MORTEM FOR THE BUY-HIGHER FOLKS) CHIT CHAT ABOUT THE PROFITGRAB:
https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread....old-physical-at-the-top&p=1346165#post1346165
05-06-2011, 05:58 PM

"A 5 minute call to my bullion dealer. A little friendly haggling over price, and the deal was done. Truck picked up my silver on Wed, funds wired to my account today. You need a very good relationship with your dealer. I've talked to him at least once a week for almost 10 years."

That bullion dealer was probably hedged, so received the for the $50 purchase - compensating dollars, from the same suckers, DURING the price uptrend.

Replace "tea leaves" with theplantguy and you know what to do: the opposite of what is said, and the same of what is done. :p
 
The QE total amount is not lend out by banks because the central bank pays them to NOT lend it out, as a method to curb price increases aka a "tightening" cycle.

Banks don't lend reserves regardless, paying interest on reserves held on the balance sheet of a CB is not a method to curb price increases. It's a method designed to curb yield.

But prices of stuff did NOT rise, only the speculative products

Yep, QE raises demand for bonds by CBs, increasing the price while lowering the yield. Funds and other agencies go looking for yield in other markets driving up the price of those assets to make up for the lower return in bonds.

central banks are the biggest gold traders out there

True if you don't include jewellery and investment demand. o_O

The majority of Central Banks don't give a shit about what the price of gold is doing because it's largely irrelevant to how they function.
 
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