Gloom and Doom for Oz Thread
- Thread starter JulieW
- Start date
Ahhhhh yes we pay tax to fund it. So do the Americans but look at the 10's of thousands of dollars they pay for insurance and procedures, that's the difference. Here a homeless person can get free state of the art cancer treatment from a public hospital. I would never trade that for anything.
What makes you think the model we have for the provision of public health is actually a good use of resources?
That's the propaganda message that is continually spread by those with a vested interest in maintaining the publicly funded provision of a service that many do not utilise fully, or those that have no idea what they are talking about. There is no reliable evidence to support your claim that medicare is a better system than one that is funded by users on a voluntary basis.
John Stossel on mandated Grocery Insurance:
Stossel said:
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My experience. A member of my family became severely ill in the last 14 Months. We were in and out of public hospitals weekly and sometimes twice weekly for over a year. The hospital staff were excellent, they worked hard and resources were stretched. They had all the equipment they needed to repair/get her well again. To me it appeared to work efficiently.
If her treatment wasn't covered by medicare we would have had to sell the house and then we would have become a burden on society. We are too old to get jobs now, we are retired. Have you ever wondered why the Top 10 Best Countries to live in the world nearly always have a free Medicare system? Places like Sweden, Norway, UK, NZ and Australia are nearly always in the top 10. I wouldn't swap that for anything and I think if you asked the Aussie population the great majority would agree with me.
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Medicare is great here but as I said before be also glad you/we live here in Oz and not the divided states/people of America or suicidal Europe.
I'm happy it worked out for you, but everyone has a similar story. What the champions of mandatory public health funding can't provide is evidence that a health system based upon voluntary funding would be be of lesser quality, despite the fact that every other need we have that is met by voluntary participation is superior to alternative mandatory schemes.
Or you may have had private health cover where the costs are met by you and the others that have voluntarily agreed to participate in the scheme.
It's not because these countries have publicly funded health systems, it's because the surveys conducted to measure the outcomes ask the right questions.
You wouldn't swap it, but you also insist on forcing everyone else to fund your medical costs, as do the rest of those who love medicare.
The problem in Australia with the Sacred Cow that is Medicare is that we can't even have the discussion about whether it is actually working without special interest groups and the public going into hysterics.
I may be retired but I still pay my tax and medicare levy. I am very happy to contribute to a system where the service is first class and covers everybody including the disabled, the poor, the elderly, the war veterans or those that simply just can't afford insurance. This to me this is good and caring society and one that I prefer to live in. That's what Australia is all about, helping out your mates and those that can not help themselves.
If we removed the ability to borrow into the future then does anyone still think things would be economically good here atm? I don’t see leaving a massive debt burden to our children and grandchildren anything to be proud of.
Also once china switches to a domestic market does anyone still think we will have the same purchasing power that gives us the false illusion of us doing well?
And regarding Medicare I doubt it will be any better than a private system. To be fair I don’t think it’s the system that matters, but more how people act. Corruption, stupidity and lack of morals will destroy any system.
Nothing in this world is "free" someone always pays in one way or another.
Also once china switches to a domestic market does anyone still think we will have the same purchasing power that gives us the false illusion of us doing well?
And regarding Medicare I doubt it will be any better than a private system. To be fair I don’t think it’s the system that matters, but more how people act. Corruption, stupidity and lack of morals will destroy any system.
Nothing in this world is "free" someone always pays in one way or another.
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Before you think our health system is all caring maybe you should stop to think about the burden medicare puts on our doctors. The system is underfunded and the staff are way over worked.
This article is a good reflection on what it's like in major city public hospitals.
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...r/news-story/65c5e15e3965fbc22ffc90c6e066bdb3
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...r/news-story/65c5e15e3965fbc22ffc90c6e066bdb3
How much of that is being bought on credit?
How many of those people are spending all their wages every paycheck?
How many of those people have any savings?
When I was younger, before marriage and owning a house, I bought the latest gadgets, ate out often and would gladly buy coffees when out and about. I had an overdraft, massive credit card debt, no savings and a car loan. Money came in fortnightly and by the next fortnight I would be broke again. Probably the most interesting time of my life, went on lots of holidays with friends, lots of trips into London after work for drinks etc.
Totaled up, I had around the equivalent of $50K of debt and nothing to show for it but a second hand car.
Took my wife three years to get me back into the black and I have been personal debt free ever since.
Your taxes don't pay the bills for government services, we borrow money to fund those things.
Basing public policy and mandatory legislation on subjective notions of what constitutes an ideal society favours some at the expense of others. Medicare is not the only way to achieve those goals.
Let me know when I can choose not to get cancer, blood clots, meningitis or break my arm and I'll be right with you on making funding completely voluntary.
Red herring.
Let me know when I can stop other people making bad lifestyle choices that ultimately result in chronic health conditions, and I'll be right with you on making funding completely involuntary.
Silverthorn
Well-Known Member
When I studied a semester on public economics in my third year I still clearly remember the text pointed out several empirical studies showed public health was actually more efficient. I remember it so well because it went against the current meme of the day of privatisation which was getting going back in the day.