General Questions From a Noob

Ashman

Ashman

Active Member
Silver Stacker
Hi guys,

I've just signed up after jumping headfirst into metals.

I've got some questions regarding when it eventually comes time to sell.

Firstly, can someone tell me how selling to a dealer would work. I understand there are 2 spot prices (bid and ask) and I understand that they refer to the prices bulk metals are being bought for (bid) and being offered for (ask) on the open market.

My question is does a dealer pay the current bid spot price to a customer who walks in off the street with metal to sell, or does he look at the current bid spot and then subtract his own percentage off that and offer the customer that price?? (I assume he subtracts off the bid spot, and thus each dealer would offer a different price based on the margins they choose to keep.).

Secondly, regarding CGT, and trading metals privately. How does one go about keeping records when trading say silver for gold privately.

If you were to buy silver now, hold until swapping became viable, and then swap privately (ie: swap say 30oz of silver for 1oz of gold when the GSR is ~30), what happens in the future when the GSR increases and you cash out your gold? The tax office would be wondering where the extra money came from, and you would have to somehow prove to them that you swapped your silver for gold to explain the extra money.

And finally (and related to the above question) what records to you need to keep to appease the tax office when buying or selling privately?
 
Welcome.

Ashman said:
Secondly, regarding CGT, and trading metals privately. How does one go about keeping records when trading say silver for gold privately.
Click to expand...

File records here: :cool:

4088_papershredder.jpg
 
spannermonkey said:
All your questions have been asked & answered here before
use the search feature
Click to expand...

I have been looking through old posts for the last couple of days and have not found anything that directly answered my questions, hence why I posted.
 
Ashman said:
spannermonkey said:
All your questions have been asked & answered here before
use the search feature
Click to expand...

I have been looking through old posts for the last couple of days and have not found anything that directly answered my questions, hence why I posted.
Click to expand...


Ok :D

Try with the styckys first , I'm sure the answers are there somewhere .
 
Ashman said:
Hi guys,

I've just signed up after jumping headfirst into metals.

I've got some questions regarding when it eventually comes time to sell.

Firstly, can someone tell me how selling to a dealer would work. I understand there are 2 spot prices (bid and ask) and I understand that they refer to the prices bulk metals are being bought for (bid) and being offered for (ask) on the open market.

My question is does a dealer pay the current bid spot price to a customer who walks in off the street with metal to sell, or does he look at the current bid spot and then subtract his own percentage off that and offer the customer that price?? (I assume he subtracts off the bid spot, and thus each dealer would offer a different price based on the margins they choose to keep.).

Secondly, regarding CGT, and trading metals privately. How does one go about keeping records when trading say silver for gold privately.

If you were to buy silver now, hold until swapping became viable, and then swap privately (ie: swap say 30oz of silver for 1oz of gold when the GSR is ~30), what happens in the future when the GSR increases and you cash out your gold? The tax office would be wondering where the extra money came from, and you would have to somehow prove to them that you swapped your silver for gold to explain the extra money.

And finally (and related to the above question) what records to you need to keep to appease the tax office when buying or selling privately?
Click to expand...

Very good questions Ashman.

First of all it's very important to keep very accurate records of what you buy and what you sell. Just use Microsoft Excell for your records.

You have to pay capital gains on your profits but you can also claim capital losses.

Accurate records will give you peace of mind.

Dealers!

Dealers will work the trade as much as they can, they prey on the new guys who don't know how to buy and sell!

Look at the re-strike Kookaburra coins and how many got sucked in to owning re-strikes !:|

Know the market and know the spot price.

Too many people get caught up in the Spot price; it's absolute bullshit that the market would have you believe and is no true indication of the secondary market forces. Noobs talk of... they will pay this and that above spot but spot changes from day to day, week to week, month to month. Buy when you want at the price you want for the time period that you want commensurate with the profit you want.

Never go on spot, go on the coin and it's potential to make you a capital gain.

Having said that, look at the Perth mints buy from you and sell site.

Currently they buy silver bullion @ 30.10 AUD per ounce and Sell @ $41.62
http://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/Buy-Silver-Coins.aspx

You to should follow their lead, never buy expensive coins and if in-doubt buy bullion but not just any bullion, buy recognized bullion bars that are recognized by the LBMA.
 
Holdfast said:
Very good questions Ashman.

First of all it's very important to keep very accurate records of what you buy and what you sell. Just use Microsoft Excell for your records.

You have to pay capital gains on your profits but you can also claim capital losses.

Accurate records will give you peace of mind.

Dealers!

Dealers will work the trade as much as they can, they prey on the new guys who don't know how to buy and sell!

Look at the re-strike Kookaburra coins and how many got sucked in to owning re-strikes !:|

Know the market and know the spot price.

Too many people get caught up in the Spot price; it's absolute bullshit that the market would have you believe and is no true indication of the secondary market forces. Noobs talk of... they will pay this and that above spot but spot changes from day to day, week to week, month to month. Buy when you want at the price you want for the time period that you want commensurate with the profit you want.

Never go on spot, go on the coin and it's potential to make you a capital gain.

Having said that, look at the Perth mints buy from you and sell site.

Currently they buy silver bullion @ 30.10 AUD per ounce and Sell @ $41.62
http://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/Buy-Silver-Coins.aspx

You to should follow their lead, never buy expensive coins and if in-doubt buy bullion but not just any bullion, buy recognized bullion bars that are recognized by the LBMA.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

I have already started a spreadsheet with details of my first purchase.

Coins aren't my thing. I've just bought 2oz of Perth Mint gold bullion and 40oz of NTR silver bullion, and intend to stick to bullion exclusively.

Is the Perth Mint's buy/sell price really a good gauge of what prices to expect at dealers though?? I did look at them before buying and ended up getting their own gold bullion cheaper than their asking price elsewhere and the silver about $5/oz cheaper than their asking price.
 
^^ in my experience every dealer is different. Margin largely linked to turnover (but not only thing of course)
 
Not all dealers use a bid/ask - many use a feed such as Kitco, goldprice.org or Bulliondesk amongst others that is a median price.

Disclosure - apparently I'm a bottom feeding dealer.
 
Holdfast said:
Dealers!

Dealers will work the trade as much as they can, they prey on the new guys who don't know how to buy and sell!

Look at the re-strike Kookaburra coins and how many got sucked in to owning re-strikes !:|
Click to expand...

Anyone who bought restrikes when they were readily available is up big time on their initial investment, particularly the 91 kooks. I bought a bunch at $32-$33 and sold them for $39 just 2 weeks ago.

Suckered in? the suckers were those who refused to buy them in my opinion.
 
goldpelican said:
Not all dealers use a bid/ask - many use a feed such as Kitco, goldprice.org or Bulliondesk amongst others that is a median price.

Disclosure - apparently I'm a bottom feeding dealer.
Click to expand...
Lobsters live on the bottom dont they ? :)
 
roman said:
Holdfast said:
Dealers!

Dealers will work the trade as much as they can, they prey on the new guys who don't know how to buy and sell!

Look at the re-strike Kookaburra coins and how many got sucked in to owning re-strikes !:|
Click to expand...

Anyone who bought restrikes when they were readily available is up big time on their initial investment, particularly the 91 kooks. I bought a bunch at $32-$33 and sold them for $39 just 2 weeks ago.

Suckered in? the suckers were those who refused to buy them in my opinion.
Click to expand...

they would be the last one to get sucked in when they saw "Sold Out" sign, and rushed to get theirs on the higher ground,

when the early bids have already left and the lightning strike those toasted suckers :lol:
 
To be completely honest I don't care about buyers feelings after a transaction is complete, it's their decision when they choose to invest, not mine.

So long as a buyer was happy with me as a person and the product I sold it's mission accomplished and I move on, simple as that. Look at my feedback, tell me, have I preyed on 1 new guy? I think you'll recognize most of their names. In fact I often go out of my way to make sure new buyers don't get fleeced, my profit was not a result of ripping people off, it was a result of supply and demand.

I wasn't rubbing it in, I was backing up goldstackers and BB for their decision to buy out the rest of the 91 kooks. I'm getting pretty tired of reading and hearing all this negativity about dealers selling re-strikes, it's complete and utter BS, they're a great investment and will only go up in value. In fact, when they were readily available at $32-$33 they were the very best silver to invest in.

Just trying to educate in a straightforward way, people tend to take more away from an argument if you give them numbers so that's what I do when I can.
don't hate me for that, I'm not a self-centered person despite what you may think.
 
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