Farmland Investing

davo0192 said:
True
I do agree with you auspm but i realise that when I am growing my own choy sum, amaranth and all these other veggies it is not as easy. I can guarantee that to you all.

I have been growing the above and more for the last 3 years and it is very hard. It is devastating to see your crops getting eaten away by pest or something environmental.

Even to this day I still need my in laws to give me a hand (as they are farmers from China) so I am able to learn from them.

Farming in a small plot of land or even in an urban environment I find is a skill in itself and if you have no skills or no knowledge about this area you will fail in the first few years :).. I know I did and am still learning.
Click to expand...

I think it is called subsistence farming for a reason! Sharecropping seems to be the way to go!

Even when you are off the grid you are still going to have to pay land tax for your farm, so you will still need an income, you will never be free of the system.

I looked into bamboo farming but there were none available in Australia and my SMSF does not want me investing in Thailand or Nicaragua. The scope of products that can be made from bamboo is staggering but at the moment there is no need to farm it in China, they just cut it down.

Although it can be made into floorboards etc. there is no manufacturing done in Australia so basically the only Australian bamboo farmer I know just grows 150 acres of bamboo and sells the plants and poles.
 
Mr Medved said:
Jislizard said:
Even when you are off the grid you are still going to have to pay land tax for your farm.
Click to expand...
That's not true in Victoria, there are exemptions:

http://www.sro.vic.gov.au/sro/srona...575D6001DA9A3357FEFE8147EF37DCA2575D6001D1E1B

The major exemptions are for your PPoR and for primary production (farms).
Click to expand...

Sounds good. If I'm working my own farm for my own family needs, I am not going to be buying in an area where the gubmint wants to get a slice of the action.

Rates I can understand for water, sewrage etc if you have a plot that's connected to it.

But if you really want to go it alone with no government services at all, you'd really want to be in a position where you can stick the middle finger to the man and just live on your own.

I'd personally want to buy in an area that has a local farming community though, a co-op of small hobby farmers where we can trade goods among each other would be my ideal.

I go regularly to the farmer's markets here in Sydney and their produce is always amazing.

That said, even if you were skimmed by the big bad wolf, you'd have to assume the going rate for remote areas wouldn't be on the same level as city living. I would think you'd need far less to get by than you would in the city.

Depends on your lifestyle choices and expectations I guess. Apart from decent quality healthcare, I don't really much value what passes for 'entertainment' and 'services' in the city.

I wonder if you could purchase acreage with the view of setting up a solar farm in an area on it to feed the local grid, meet your needs and provide a passive income?

Sustainable energy income solutions might not be big bikkies, but we're talking about just making sure you can meet the operating costs of your rural lifestyle, not become the next JP Morgan...

As for the issue of vermin on your food, I wonder if you consider a greenhouse option? Not a full sized glass effort that would run you into 7 figures, but I've seen some hobby farms here in outer Sydney where it's basically just a weatherproof plastic sheet over support beams which keep the bad things out, but sunlight in?

The best part would be that such environments would give you a lot more freedom for innovative ideas and solutions to meet your family's needs.

Farmland investing - for yourself and your family.

I reckon your standard of living and quality of produce would make the effort really worth while, don't you think?

Ironically, you can buy 20+ acre farms with a homestead in good arable farming zones for less than the cost of your average 3 bedder in the city now.

I know which I prefer and this is what my wife and I are talking about doing a few years down the track.
 
For once I am with Auspm on this one!

We are looking for somewhere in Qld though, I am sure it has a longer growing season than Victoria with less requirement for greenhouse heaters.

Thanks for that info Mr MedVed, I would be looking to bug out and not conduct any business on the property, I will have to check locally!
 
Davo0192.Agree 100%..It is easier said than done! I have been attempting to grow all types of vegetables for some 5years now . Here are some of the stories both good and bad.

Good . I am now able to grow my own climbing beans continually using the seeds from the plants.Have had no problems with disease or pests..

Bad.. Lettuce. Some years ago, I had good success growing lettuce but all my attempts so far have proved to be of no avail..Start off good, grow quickly and look to be doing fine.Only trouble it they grow upwards and turn to seed before they actually come to a head. Same problem with Cauliflower! I think there is too much nitrogen in the soil.

Potatoes is another area where I have had limited success..Plants grow and look really healthy and yet when the time comes to harvest the crop, I have been extremely disappointed. Only about 4 to 5 average size potatoes per plant. Have use certified seed potatoes. Will try again!

Tomatoes is a success story.. No problems at all..You never however, plant tomatoes in the same place twice.

Getting the quality of your garden soil up to a high standard is an area where you have to really work on if you want success. Having a worm farm and a compost heap helps.

Having a organic garden is a challenge. Using organic seeds is another as they are not all heavy producers like Monsanto seeds.

Best of luck with your gardening.

Regards Errol 43



You can read all the books you like on gardening/farming but it all amount to naught until you do hands on. Water management is something that takes time as some plants require more than others others.

Auspm mentions about having solar power and I have being considering getting solar power for home needs but I would like a stand alone system so as to be not dependent on a feed in system. I have a solar hot water system and have had the storage unit on the roof replaced once already after 5 years...If you have a stand alone system you still have the problem of batteries.. It is hard to get away from the system.

It doesn't matter where you are you cant have everything..I have poor soil on a one acre block but no problems obtaining firewood as large trees abound..Plenty of rainfall being near the coast but have the danger of being hit by a cyclone..Close to good fishing, plenty of good farms close bye growing a huge variety of vegetables and fruit .
 
Sounds like a challenge errol43, but one you clearly relish.

Given everything you've just said, would you give it up and go live in a city today?

;)

Have you thought about a bee hive or smoke house? I have a friend who rents a place out of the city with a smoke house onsite, they do a yearly run of dried beef and home made salami (all smoked) that would make your mouth water just by one whiff of it. I buy from him twice a year and it lasts for a full 6 months each time... utterly incredible produce that you'll never see in the mainstream environment, even in a quality deli.

My wife makes home made bread daily as well as baked goods, we grow some veg and herbs but being in the city we are quite constrained.

By any chance, is there a farming co-op or market near where you live where the locals can gather once a month or fortnight to trade?

Imagine fronting up there with a pouch of silver coins for barter ;)



I'm getting off the track a little in the context of the thread, but I think it's a good diversion because so much on this forum is about how to profit from other people when a subject like this can open thinking and ideas to investing in your own family and lifestyle - and be much richer for it.

I think you'd have to be backed by serious dollars and have tied up suppliers and good rates to go into the commercial farming side of things, but I think if you tone it down to just your family and a small community group, you could really be onto something here that I'm sure would be the ideal for many who visit these forums.
 
auspm said:
hiho said:
you could purchase a small farm through your SMSF and lease it to yourself and your wife. The lease payments would go towards the loan along with your superannuation contributions.
Look it up on the net.

In saying that though I reckon youd want to enjoy the simple life from that point on becasue there aint a lot of money in it
Click to expand...

This is my long term outlook actually hiho. I want a plot of arable land simply to sustain and live off for myself and my family looking ahead, hopefully near a reliable water supply and local farming community of like minded individuals.

I know the work would be hard, but IMHO ever more rewarding and the prospect of a life around home, farmer's markets, community, CWA etc has real appeal to myself and my family.

I think the 'value' of arable land in this country is seriously overlooked by the modern population in that whilst it's almost impossible to turn a commercial profit off it's use, in terms of personal use it provides the #1 best SHTF option you and your family could have at it's finger tips.

Whilst debate on city based housing 'investment' is a question for speculators and debtors, I think in terms of maintaining your long term family and personal wealth you'd be very hard to go past quality arable land and a decent PM holding.

I won't need to be 'rich' in this life to be happy, I just need to be independent of the system and life of being comfortable & sustainable, without dependencies on the system.

A family 'hobby farm' with livestock, chickens, vegetable gardens, fruit trees, fresh water supply, bee hives, smoke house, solar panelling and wind generator with a good local community is my personal ideal of paradise - and real security for me and my family.

When you get off the grid, you remove the last component of '3rd party counter risk' in your life - the one that brings almost all of us the most angst and frustration.

I think in the years ahead as the 'system' becomes more oppressive and drives people out of the cities, this ideal will become more mainstream and more sought after than trying to match it with the elite in their rigged market games.
Click to expand...
So does this mean you will participate in the ponzi one day & get a loan to buy it ? This is a serious question aus because any half decent land with access to water wont come cheap
 
@ erroll I agree with the learning curve . My brother had a cerified organic farm for years . He had a fair bit of success with companion planting & crop rotation . But one huge mistake comes to mind with his kiwi fruit he was watching them grow & thinking wow i have the biggest kiwi fruit on the planet & thinking he was a genius until one of his friends told him you have to pull them off when theyre small because they dont ripen on the plant :lol: he had hundreds of kilos of massive kiwi fruit that he fed to the animals

Edit ...i cant remember if they didnt ripen or they got woody & inedible or both
 
So does this mean you will participate in the ponzi one day & get a loan to buy it ? This is a serious question aus because any half decent land with access to water wont come cheap
Click to expand...

It's a serious question asked on the premise of a flippant remark to garner a response in which you seek to label as hypocritical if I respond to your leading question.

You make assumptions and attempt to derail what is otherwise a good thread, hence you'll get no response from me in regards to your question.

ignored.
 
auspm said:
So does this mean you will participate in the ponzi one day & get a loan to buy it ? This is a serious question aus because any half decent land with access to water wont come cheap
Click to expand...

It's a serious question asked on the premise of a flippant remark to garner a response in which you seek to label as hypocritical if I respond to your leading question.

You make assumptions and attempt to derail what is otherwise a good thread, hence you'll get no response from me in regards to your question.

ignored.
Click to expand...
I'l take that as a yes . . Hmmm interesting ......very interesting :p:

Back on topic now ..........................................................
 
Farming covers such a multitude of sins it's very difficult to categorise. My partner and I purchased a Herb Farm eight years ago in FNQ. The purchase allowed us to secure residence and citizenship (we were Brits living in Hong Kong).
What we have is a packhouse that grows we employ a dozen staff, supply Woolies and the IGAs in the top half of Queensland. Contrary to popular belief, we've always felt Woolies has done the right thing by us (don't ask about the other one).
The pros
It's an incredible part of the world reef, rainforest, food. Three distinct microclimates within a 30 minute drive.
80% of the world's food crops can grow in the microclimates within 100 km; the big exceptions are stone fruit which require cold to set. Mangos, lychee, pineapple, banana are all easily and cheaply available locally (or can be grown in back).
We have a small 5 acre block which is private, close to an international airport, but in range of broadacre farms with a hydro setup.
No heavy machinery (think: Workcover).
We're on a range, well above sea level.
Cons
Lack of urban amenities;
Costs such as insurance are higher;
It's an all-year-round business
Local tourism businesses have been taking it on the chin.
Small business is under Governmental attack.
Tropical land maintenance is non-trivial, it never ceases to amaze me how fast stuff can grow.
We fell in love with the block, which presented as a small slice of Paradise, and we made the usual mistakes scaling up the business. I have developed serious respect for broadacre farmers in general they have a full-on life with crazy hours and massive debt (we don't, or at least not to the same degree :-)).
Now we are thinking of doing something different.
 
renovator said:
auspm said:
So does this mean you will participate in the ponzi one day & get a loan to buy it ? This is a serious question aus because any half decent land with access to water wont come cheap
Click to expand...

It's a serious question asked on the premise of a flippant remark to garner a response in which you seek to label as hypocritical if I respond to your leading question.

You make assumptions and attempt to derail what is otherwise a good thread, hence you'll get no response from me in regards to your question.

ignored.
Click to expand...
I'l take that as a yes . . Hmmm interesting ......very interesting :p:

Back on topic now ..........................................................
Click to expand...

I take it as goading. You take it however you like, it's irrelevent.

Farming covers such a multitude of sins it's very difficult to categorise. My partner and I purchased a Herb Farm eight years ago in FNQ. The purchase allowed us to secure residence and citizenship (we were Brits living in Hong Kong).
What we have is a packhouse that grows we employ a dozen staff, supply Woolies and the IGAs in the top half of Queensland. Contrary to popular belief, we've always felt Woolies has done the right thing by us (don't ask about the other one).
The pros
It's an incredible part of the world reef, rainforest, food. Three distinct microclimates within a 30 minute drive.
80% of the world's food crops can grow in the microclimates within 100 km; the big exceptions are stone fruit which require cold to set. Mangos, lychee, pineapple, banana are all easily and cheaply available locally (or can be grown in back).
We have a small 5 acre block which is private, close to an international airport, but in range of broadacre farms with a hydro setup.
No heavy machinery (think: Workcover).
We're on a range, well above sea level.
Cons
Lack of urban amenities;
Costs such as insurance are higher;
It's an all-year-round business
Local tourism businesses have been taking it on the chin.
Small business is under Governmental attack.
Tropical land maintenance is non-trivial, it never ceases to amaze me how fast stuff can grow.

We fell in love with the block, which presented as a small slice of Paradise, and we made the usual mistakes scaling up the business. I have developed serious respect for broadacre farmers in general they have a full-on life with crazy hours and massive debt (we don't, or at least not to the same degree :-)).
Now we are thinking of doing something different.
Click to expand...

When you say something different, as in get out of the game?

I think it's been one of the absolute tragedies of modern Australia (and the west in general), this massive shift from primary producing business to leverage gambling investment ideology as 'sound' business.

Very short sighted IMHO, that will be to the detriment of many looking ahead.

hyphenated, how viable would your operation be not necessarily as a commercial enterprise, but simply to sustain yourself and your family? Could you scale the operation back a little and perhaps broaden your crops to accomodate your own consumption (and perhaps a little to use for trade in a co-op arrangement) to get by?

I really have appreciation for farmers and other primary producers who try and earn a living in a world ruled by speculative debt and gambling as the 'intelligent' investment solution.
 
Starting with the loss in primary producers, there are a number of unintended consequences of politics, population and costs. Here are a few semi-random issues off the top of my head:
Most farmers have massive loans and drawings throughout the year, with payments at harvest. A lot of 'em don't know whether the year has been profitable until the year is well past.
The money is made in the markets by the wholesalers and agents. The markets are scary places.
The dominance of the supermarket chains and superstores tends to hollow-out logistics;
National pricing tends to ignore the additional costs in rural and remote areas;
Prime agricultural land is constantly being sequestered for development, and this process tends to be erosive and irreversible;
Every business is feeling over-legislated, but small business cops it (wages, health and safety, Workcover, conformance, et cetera).
The average age of farmers is constantly rising, as farming is not taken up by sons and daughters of farmers.
The money made on selling a farm is usually much less than the cost of setting up a farm.
For us, it is encouraging that Woolies has gone with support of the Aussie farmer as a plank.
It seems obvious to me that the Coles-initiated Milk and Bread wars are aimed at gutting the corner shops and small supermarket, but for some reason the ACCC thinks that's fine.
On the commercial/co-op balance question, it is difficult to answer in full, it very much depends on circumstances. Bear in mind that farmers are often in completely different markets, and if they are not, competition can be robustly "healthy" (sabotage, theft, undermining, white-anting, greed and stupidity). Co-ops are rather like a group marriage; nice in principle, but murder to work out and assemble. Take twenty-five cats. Load chuck wagon. Herd from Point A to Point B, twenty kilometres away. Repeat until sanity questioned.
On the balance front: It may be of note that several individuals and communes decided that the region is a good place to avoid the effects of a nuclear war in the seventies and eighties :-)
We run a hydroponic operation, so assuming that we are not talking about a totally apocalyptic scenario (ie there is still a power grid, freight) it would be entirely possible to move from a business-oriented operation towards greater self-sufficiency. A great deal of vegetables can be grown in a quite modest hydro facility (we use scoria as a base material, which is local volcanic rock); it is a remarkably simple and effective system. We keep chickens and guinea fowl for eggs and for pest control; if we were tougher-minded we could use them for meat. There is a full gamut of farming up the road, and increasing trading is not difficult to imagine. We have a steam still (for essential oils) and a steam kettle (for jams and syrups) and a vacuum packer, so it is quite possible to utilise gluts and run deals that way.
We are thinking of doing something else because a) we want to see some more of Oz (although we will remain based up here), and b) we are no longer intellectually challenged by doing what we do.
 
Google Joel Salatin.
Makes me want to farm. Currently working towards it. Have website/online marketing skills, so should be able to direct market easy enough.
 
charlief1 said:
Google Joel Salatin.
Makes me want to farm. Currently working towards it. Have website/online marketing skills, so should be able to direct market easy enough.
Click to expand...
A SMSF is an excellent way to aquire a debt free farm if you have enough in the SMSF.

I personally do not advocate borrowings if a SMSF buys a farm.

Once you have it with no debt any income made by the farm can be used to slowly improve it and make cash flows back to your fund.

IMO they are very powerful investments over a 10 year period if you do your research.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top