Fake Gulo Gulo? (Mongolia Wildlife Series)

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xx12xx

New Member
I was wondering if this coin is a Fake or just a different strike. Notice the .999 in the second one where it looks like a coma and the last number is kind of crooked. Also the antique finish looks overdone in the coin. And most of the letters look a little bit thicker. The weight is fine.

Any expert opinions? I have no idea how to post images, so I posted a link where you can compare the two.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=115295
 
Sorry, can't access your pix at Kitco. If you want, you can PM me a picture. I have a Gulo that I can compare it to.
 
Sorry about that lol. I don't think have permission yet to upload photos, I tried but I couldn't. I'll keep trying though, in the meantime here is a link for flickr. Actually this way is better because I believe you can really zoom in on the details by pressing on the pictures then on the upper right choose "all sizes" and go to the large 2048 option.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93686703@N05/
 
xx12xx said:
I was wondering if this coin is a Fake or just a different strike. Notice the .999 in the second one where it looks like a coma and the last number is kind of crooked. Also the antique finish looks overdone in the coin. And most of the letters look a little bit thicker. The weight is fine.

Any expert opinions? I have no idea how to post images, so I posted a link where you can compare the two.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=115295
Click to expand...

The antique finish is too dark. While I can't see the decimal point in great deatail on the photo, I can tell you that on a genuine Gulo the decimal point is in no way comma shaped. It is a clean, crisp dot. The letters in TOPOR do look "thick", but it's hard to determine from the photo if they are overly so. The fact that it isn't in an original airtite is a major flag.

Since you appear to have two, why aren't you compaing them under magnification yourself? Did you recently purchase the one in question? If so, from where?
 
don't have a wolverine but have an owl comparing under the loupe
the reverse... on the #5 there are two thin parts
on this number.... the skinny vertical part of the 5
that conects the top of the 5 down to the half circle
that connecting verticle line on my reverse does not
taper at all... it's super thin but it's uniform all the
way top to bottom... also that .999 is a discrete dot
it's not a comma... i see what you're seeing... definitely
looks fake to me if it were an owl... but again i don't
have a wolverine to compare to

actually on closer inspecting and i'm looking at pic #4 reverse
it gets a little pixalated on the #5 area but comma still looks
way off

btw ngc will grade these now again... you might need to download
their waiver form however since it does have jewel insets b4 sending
off
 
I bought it on Ebay recently. The seller had 100% feedback but only as a buyer, and 0% as a seller. As soon as I got the coin I thought it was kind of weird, specially the over-done antique finish. Then I just looked at the back and I noticed the coma shaped dot and the last 9 crooked. The rest looks pretty decent if its a counterfeit.

I have the wooden box and the certificate, but we know anyone can get them by itself on Ebay. So I have no idea if I should put in a dispute with PayPal.

I haven't heard about these series being faked.
 
try looking up an already graded wolverine on NGC by cert number
you can really zoom in on that then compare to coin in hand
 
xx12xx said:
I bought it on Ebay recently. The seller had 100% feedback but only as a buyer, and 0% as a seller. As soon as I got the coin I thought it was kind of weird, specially the over-done antique finish. Then I just looked at the back and I noticed the coma shaped dot and the last 9 crooked. The rest looks pretty decent if its a counterfeit.

I have the wooden box and the certificate, but we know anyone can get them by itself on Ebay. So I have no idea if I should put in a dispute with PayPal.

I haven't heard about these series being faked.
Click to expand...

I just checked Ebay sold Gulo listings and if it was the auction that ended on 2/25 from Canada, you might want to get the coin thoroughly check out. The COA looks completely bogus based on the font, offset printing and paper quality. And that is definitely not the original airtite.

As for not hearing of fakes. Unfortunately, when a coin commands these prices, THERE WILL BE FAKES.

For your sake I hope I'm wrong. If you do have a known good coin, take them both to a reputable coin shop to start. Most will be glad to compare both to help you out.

The good news is Paypal will bail you out if you get proof it's a fake. Just be mindful of the time limitation to file a claim.
 
Yeah, that's the one silversmith. I thought the seller took the photo in a dark setting and because of that the coin looked that dark, I asked the seller plenty of questions and he seemed genuinely honest (but how can we know for sure). To my surprise when I took it out the package the coin finish looked like pencil graphite.
 
this really sucks these fakes are popping up i have couple owls
and didn't want to submit for grading... but now i'm gonna have
to... inevitable... this is a pretty fair looking fake which is
the sad part of it all... damn scammers i will say i;m am curious
to see how pricing is reflected in this series once graded ones
start hitting
 
So I compared it to a PCGS certified coin: (thanks for the idea Cabaret)

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/20784369/

And the coin even though it looks similar, the dot does not look nothing at all like that. The spacing between letters are also to crunched together and a little fatter. So my conclusion is that indeed it is a fake.

How bad will this be for the market? I mean if there are only 2500 pieces minted and you start getting a flood of counterfeits, will this decrease their value? Do you think it will be like a Panda kinda thing?

There was another thread with an auction from a China seller that alas it has exactly the same coin holder. and supposedly the coin is oxidized. While checking his feedback negative feedback from buyers say his items are fake. Bad News I guess.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mongolia-20...3136156?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item257561d69c
 
boy really knew how tough it was to pull off a fake like this
seems that they went to all the trouble to knock this particular
coin off they mighta made a bunch

i was looking at this sellers past sales and noticed a hedgehog
oh good grief
 
xx12xx:

Get some proof and file a claim with ebay. It will take some effort and time on your part, but at least you'll get your money back. Keep us posted on your progress. This forum is a good resource to use in the future.

cabarevolt:

I agree...these fakes will have a negative effect on the price. I'm planning on selling my Wolverine, Owl & Hedgehog soon. At least I have receipts from reputable dealers to show where I bought them. I hope that will help.
 
well don't knock getting them graded... again i;m sure someone here more
knowledgeable should have a realistic idea how the prices would be affected
if a fair number of graded started popping up... to a certain degree the threat
of fakes should help support prices for lower graded species from the series
just because they're authenticated

another issue is grade rarity for this type of strike to begin w/ and im not sure
that verdict is in but i suspect they're grade rare to begin w/ due to minting
procedure

and i know alot of people don't use NGC but if you don't have a relationship
w/ your local coin dealer and walked in w/ you wolverine or owl and explained
the situation i'm sure he'd have instantaneous sympathy w/ your real need to authenticate and
toss your coin into his next outgoing batch and you get to build him as a contact
at the same time

if you decide to sell yours w/out the NGC slab... THE ABSOLUTE LAST thing i personally
would do is set them at auction... do a trade w/ someone reputable or sell buy it now
if you have good feedback and take excellent close up pictures... avoid an auction
in this enviornment

another reason you wanna be careful about auctions in this enviornment for this particular
series is because you can't control your buyer... so say he wins and tries to return to
you his fake coin and exchange it for your real coin....... there are some other issues there
as well.. just take close close up photos and bin only if ungraded

you can ship regisered as well... another thing you can do is wear video recording glasses
when packing items... i do this on large ticket items start to finish... you can buy the glasses
for like 50bucks... takes all of 2 seconds to turn them on and off save to flash bingo bango
 
another thing on NGC submissions and the waiver that's required
to submit particular style coins... obviously to include jewel/crystal
inset varieties

i'm not sure as to how this affects the NGC gurantee and their potential
liability... might be that they're just worried about knocking out one
of those little eyes but then once slabbed and if they decide to ship
back to client as finalized graded then it's just as if it were any coin
going forward from that point

might however how some sort of other relevance througougt the life
of the ngc slabbed coin however... not sure on any of that

i sometimes laugh when i think what it would be like for the grader
when opening the box if i decided to send in one of my egypt fiji
2 ounce coins w/ the huge thick stone on it... sheeeesh they'd probaly
think

oh wait... what if i sent in that huge paperweight new cylindrical coin
coming out of the polish mint :lol:... i'd tell em to just glue 5
or six slabs together and make it happen
 
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