Euro zone officials shocked by Greece's stance
- Thread starter Oldsoul
- Start date
I can't believe someone hasn't already topped Varoufakis. What a cowardly turncoat. He showed such promise.. I wonder what happened for him to abandon all morality like that?Audeamus said:
Clawhammer said:
"Holidaymakers warned to take cash to Greece amid financial collapse fears
Holidaymakers to Greece are being advised to take euros in notes and coins in case the escalating debt crisis forces banks to switch off cash machines"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-to-Greece-amid-financial-collapse-fears.html
"Greece moves to sideline Varoufakis after reform talks fiasco"
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/27/us-eurozone-greece-varoufakis-idUSKBN0NI0VI20150427
"At Riga on Friday, he was sharply criticized by fellow euro zone finance ministers for both his lecturing style and failure to produce reforms demanded by lenders."
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...nt-has-been-appointed-greek-finance-minister/
"The Daily Telegraph reports the comments of Roy Bailey MBE, who has lectured in economics at Essex since the 1970s. Remarking that he was "bemused" by the sudden rise of his former student Varoufakis, who got a poor grade of a lower second for his undergraduate but was allowed to stay on to study for a PhD in the 1980's was "always prepared to argue".
Bailey said: "I wouldn't say he was always scoring top marks You wouldn't say this is a stellar individual we should send to Harvard. But he shone when it came to independent thinking"."
Looks like Varoufakis is gone. How he ever got to be in such a pivotal position is mind blowing. Previous experience includes some freelance consulting on monetary supply economics in online games and a 2:2 in economics from the university of Essex..... The EU would have licked it's own ass to make this go away for a bit and hurled money at him if he had just given them some token promise of reforms as a political excuse to present to the public in other EU states. He did the opposite and sat posting confrontational and pointless nonsense to twitter.The warning to take cash by the Greek tourist board is interesting. Greece lives off tourism and I find it interesting they made such a warning. However with Varoufakis halted in his mission to destroy Greece and cause as much pain as possible in the EU there may be a much greater chance of a deal being reached that kicks this to touch for another year.
When it comes to these sort of EU negotiations, I have to wonder if there are some games going on. Some possibilities:Oldsoul said:
* Varoufakis played the role of the fall guy so that the new Greek government has an excuse for going back on their core election promises when the public realize nothing has changed and austerity is back.
* They are doing a hatchet job on Varoufakis for not falling into line, and now we'll see stories of his incompetence to justify his replacement.
* Varoufakis really is obstinate and overly idealistic.
BiGs
Active Member
I say go Greece. This can only create awareness of how unsustainable and circular our economic system really is.
We're playing a game of musical chairs, the music stopped and Greece was the one left without a chair. Germany says they can just sit on the floor and keep playing, but Greece is like "no thanks mate, we'll just sit out this game and join in on the next" ...as the rules of the game goes.
The game has to end eventually. The more parties not participating in its continuation, the closer we will get to true change.
We're playing a game of musical chairs, the music stopped and Greece was the one left without a chair. Germany says they can just sit on the floor and keep playing, but Greece is like "no thanks mate, we'll just sit out this game and join in on the next" ...as the rules of the game goes.
The game has to end eventually. The more parties not participating in its continuation, the closer we will get to true change.
Greek Aid Talks Gain Urgency as Breakthrough Remains Elusive
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-gain-urgency-as-breakthrough-remains-elusive
"Differences remain on issues ranging from fiscal assumptions to asset sales and labor and pension reforms, according to three people familiar with the negotiations. Still, progress has been made in a much improved atmosphere, they said. Another official said that Greece should have enough cash to get through the week and make a 200-million-euro payment to the International Monetary Fund on May 6. The people spoke on condition of anonymity as the talks are confidential. Negotiations resume Monday."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-gain-urgency-as-breakthrough-remains-elusive
"Differences remain on issues ranging from fiscal assumptions to asset sales and labor and pension reforms, according to three people familiar with the negotiations. Still, progress has been made in a much improved atmosphere, they said. Another official said that Greece should have enough cash to get through the week and make a 200-million-euro payment to the International Monetary Fund on May 6. The people spoke on condition of anonymity as the talks are confidential. Negotiations resume Monday."
Pirocco said:
Normally yes.
Apparently poor Yanis got the cold shoulder last time though and missed out on the food and fine wine....tells you how serious it is!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/25/us-eurozone-greece-varoufakis-idUSKBN0NG0EO20150425
"
(Reuters) - As the buses carrying European finance ministers left for a gala dinner in the Latvian capital on Friday night, one of the party hung back at the hotel and then wandered off alone into the dusk.
Greece's Yanis Varoufakis had other dinner plans, he said, after a bruising first day of meetings in Riga that underlined his isolation as he tries to avert national bankruptcy.
"
'Grexit' Theater Nears Final Act of EU Rape
http://bullionbullscanada.com/intl-commentary/26619-grexit-theater-nears-final-act-of-eu-rape
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Written by Jeff Nielson
Saturday, 09 May 2015 14:01
Articles & Blogs - International Commentary
User Rating: / 2
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The putrid theatrical production created by the EU, dubbed "the Greek crisis", is now nearing its final fraudulent act. The facts need to be reviewed, since none are ever contained in the propaganda of the mainstream media.
Greece is bankrupt. This is the one point upon which both sides are in agreement. Greece's new, independent, honest government is seeking to do what all responsible entities do (in a bankruptcy it inherited rather than created): restructure the debt. For those not familiar with the structured settlements which are a routine part of bankruptcy proceedings in the corporate world; "restructuring debt" means reducing the total debt, down to a debt-load which is fiscally manageable.
This is seen as an enlightened approach, because it's win/win for both sides. For creditors; something is better than nothing. Better to have regular payments resumed on a smaller debt than to have that debt vanish (or nearly vanish) in an unstructured bankruptcy. For the debtor; it's (literally) the only way to move forward on a viable basis, without succumbing to the carnage of an involuntary bankruptcy proceeding (i.e. a simple liquidation).
This is what Greece's government has been attempting to do, since Day 1 of this pseudo-negotiation. But on the other side of the table; we have the corrupt Vampires of the EU lackeys of the One Bank. They have totally refused to engage in any good-faith negotiation, at all. Instead, they simply demand (over and over and over) that Greece's government accept their "proposal".
What is the proposal of the EU, the so-called "bargaining position", from which the Vampires have refused to budge? They want to loan this bankrupt nation more of their funny-money. And the Vampires (and the liars of the Corporate media) refer to the idea of piling more debt onto a bankrupt economy as "a bailout".
As has been noted before; the metaphor here is precise and perfect: putting out a fire with gasoline. What is the one thing someone would never consider doing when attempting to "help" a bankrupt nation? Pile more debt on top of it. What is the one thing which we would never do if we were attempting to put out a fire? Pour more gasoline on top of it.
The position of the EU Vampires is 100% fraudulent. They want to bury this crippled economy under even more debt (when it is already impossible to manage the current debt-level), in order to tighten the debt choke-hold which their Master, the One Bank exerts over all of the West's deadbeat-debtor economies. And then they (and the corrupt, Corporate media) will congratulate themselves for "bailing-out Greece again".
Nothing could be more cynical. Nothing could be more corrupt. Nothing could be more inhuman. Personifying the cynicism, corruption, and inhumanity; we have one of the chief Vampires of Germany: Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble. Those who have followed this corrupt farce will recall that it was Schaeuble who stooped to childish name-calling, when Greece's Finance Minister, Yaris Varoufakis, would not immediately knuckle-under to the EU's financial rape.
Now, as the Grexit crisis nears some sort of final resolution (because there is no more currency available to sustain this economy); Schaeuble has some further points he wishes to make. First this:
German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble does not expect a final agreement on a cash-for-reform [i.e. loans-from-blackmail] between Athens and its creditors at Monday's Eurogroup meeting, he told a newspaper, warning against a Greek default. [emphasis mine]
"Such processes also have irrational elements,"Schaeuble warned, adding: "Experiences from the rest of the world have shown a country can suddenly slide into insolvency."
However, we learn what Schaeuble actually meant by "suddenly sliding into insolvency", when he replies to a question a few paragraphs later:
When asked whether the German government was prepared for a Greek default, Schaeuble said: "There are questions that a responsible politician does not answer." [emphasis mine]
Clearly Mr. Schaeuble, Vampire of the EU, has a very interesting perspective on how a "responsible politician" is supposed to behave.
Reminder: Greece is bankrupt. It has used-up literally every euro it can scrounge out of its economy for its day-to-day operations. The EU refuses to engage in real negotiations. Greece's government refuses to submit to more of this institutionalized financial rape. But a "responsible politician" isn't even supposed to discuss (inevitable) debt-default?
There are only two possible ways in which we can interpret such an attitude. One interpretation is that Germany's "responsible" Finance Minister plans to simply bury his head in the sand, ostrich-style, and hope that somehow this imminent financial catastrophe works itself out. The other interpretation is that even though Germany knows that a Greek default is inevitable and imminent (for reasons above) that "responsible politicians" simply pretend that a solution is possible (right up to the last minute) before surprising the world with a sudden declaration of default.
Of course here we don't have wonder about this either/or scenario, since Schaeuble's prior remarks make it unequivocal that he is not "burying his head in the sand". Thus we have Germany's Finance Minister publicly stating the EU's position (and presumably that of the other "responsible" Vampires) is to publicly pretend that a settlement with Greece will be reached while they privately prepare for this imminent/inevitable default.
It's not at all surprising that these Vampires plan to act (and are acting) in such a cynical and deceitful manner. What is surprising, at least a little, is that these lackey-rapists of the EU are so smug about their own, untouchable positions in this paradigm of institutionalized financial crime that they make little effort to even cover-up their deceit and duplicity.
This isn't how responsible politicians behave in handling international negotiations, (supposedly) aimed at averting further, economic carnage in the nation of Greece. This is how sleazy loan-sharks behave. "Let's 'negotiate'. These are our only terms: we're going to loan you some more money. Do what we say, or else" Lie, bully, and lie some more. And (if necessary) break a few legs.
The process is utterly transparent. This means that the corrupt Corporate media, which unequivocally supports everything the Vampires say and do, is a direct accomplice in this European loan-sharking. But, one way or another; the EU's current bullying and blackmail of Greece can't continue much longer.
Using a currency it doesn't control (the euro); Greece can only obtain the funny-money necessary to finance the day-to-day operations of its economy in two (legitimate) ways. One is through the revenues the government (and the economy itself) generate through domestic industry, commerce, and taxation. The other way is through being given some of the newly-printed euros being cranked-out by the white-hot printing press of the EU.
Even though this funny-money is just conjured out of thin air, by the trillions, costing nothing to produce, backed by nothing, and worth nothing; the European Central Bank won't simply give any of its funny-money to Greece's beleaguered government (and nation). Nor will these corrupt Vampires consider even a single euro of debt-forgiveness (i.e. reduction). Only more loans. Always more loans.
Obviously there are only two possible outcomes, as this crisis enters its final days (at least in its present form). The most-obvious and (sadly) most-likely scenario is that Greece's government will be bribed/blackmailed/bullied sufficiently to submit to more EU rape, join (again) this club-of-corruption of once-sovereign nations, and accept the EU's "bail-out offer": piling billions and billions of euros in additional debt onto a bankrupt economy.
The other scenario is less likely (despite the honesty/integrity demonstrated by this government so far), because it requires that things get worse in Greece, before they get better. Note the previous warning by Vampire Schaeuble. Even though he "does not expect a final agreement"; he was:
warning against a Greek default.
If Greece's government does not submit to this rape; it has no choice but to declare (at least a partial) debt-default. But Schaeuble has already put Greece's government on notice that if Greece does this there will be consequences.
What does this mean? First it means Grexit: kicking Greece out of the EU, to make it easier for the Vampires to exact their revenge (on behalf of their Master). When that happens; Greece will no longer want (or be able to?) use the euro, and so it will create its own currency, likely resuming the use of its former currency, the drachma. What happens then?
We can look to India, where these serial currency-manipulators attacked its currency the rupee, driving it downward in value (and creating enormous harm and suffering) until they managed to blackmail India's government into instituting a gold import embargo. We can look to Russia; where these currency-manipulators unsuccessfully attempted to destroy Russia's economy, by driving its currency (the ruble) as close to zero as possible.
Those were large, powerful nations, with large and (relatively) robust economies. And the One Bank was at least partially successful with its economic terrorism against one, and almost successful against the other. Greece's economy is small, and already in ruin thanks to years of previous economic terrorism.
What happens if Greece tries to break away from this parasitic cabal of slave nations? Almost certainly its economy will be totally destroyed. The One Bank's psychopaths may go all the way toward turning it into a "failed state". Or, the banksters may seek to simply drive this honest government out, get one of Greece's puppet-parties back into power, and then welcome Greece back into the Club.
Greece's only salvation would be strong economic (and political) support from the international community, i.e. those nations outside the corrupt cabal of the West. For incentive to assist Greece; these nations need only consider the famous words of another German, Pastor Martin Niemoller:
First they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Finally, they came for me and there was no one left to speak out.
http://bullionbullscanada.com/intl-commentary/26619-grexit-theater-nears-final-act-of-eu-rape
PDFPrintE-mail
Written by Jeff Nielson
Saturday, 09 May 2015 14:01
Articles & Blogs - International Commentary
User Rating: / 2
PoorBest
The putrid theatrical production created by the EU, dubbed "the Greek crisis", is now nearing its final fraudulent act. The facts need to be reviewed, since none are ever contained in the propaganda of the mainstream media.
Greece is bankrupt. This is the one point upon which both sides are in agreement. Greece's new, independent, honest government is seeking to do what all responsible entities do (in a bankruptcy it inherited rather than created): restructure the debt. For those not familiar with the structured settlements which are a routine part of bankruptcy proceedings in the corporate world; "restructuring debt" means reducing the total debt, down to a debt-load which is fiscally manageable.
This is seen as an enlightened approach, because it's win/win for both sides. For creditors; something is better than nothing. Better to have regular payments resumed on a smaller debt than to have that debt vanish (or nearly vanish) in an unstructured bankruptcy. For the debtor; it's (literally) the only way to move forward on a viable basis, without succumbing to the carnage of an involuntary bankruptcy proceeding (i.e. a simple liquidation).
This is what Greece's government has been attempting to do, since Day 1 of this pseudo-negotiation. But on the other side of the table; we have the corrupt Vampires of the EU lackeys of the One Bank. They have totally refused to engage in any good-faith negotiation, at all. Instead, they simply demand (over and over and over) that Greece's government accept their "proposal".
What is the proposal of the EU, the so-called "bargaining position", from which the Vampires have refused to budge? They want to loan this bankrupt nation more of their funny-money. And the Vampires (and the liars of the Corporate media) refer to the idea of piling more debt onto a bankrupt economy as "a bailout".
As has been noted before; the metaphor here is precise and perfect: putting out a fire with gasoline. What is the one thing someone would never consider doing when attempting to "help" a bankrupt nation? Pile more debt on top of it. What is the one thing which we would never do if we were attempting to put out a fire? Pour more gasoline on top of it.
The position of the EU Vampires is 100% fraudulent. They want to bury this crippled economy under even more debt (when it is already impossible to manage the current debt-level), in order to tighten the debt choke-hold which their Master, the One Bank exerts over all of the West's deadbeat-debtor economies. And then they (and the corrupt, Corporate media) will congratulate themselves for "bailing-out Greece again".
Nothing could be more cynical. Nothing could be more corrupt. Nothing could be more inhuman. Personifying the cynicism, corruption, and inhumanity; we have one of the chief Vampires of Germany: Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble. Those who have followed this corrupt farce will recall that it was Schaeuble who stooped to childish name-calling, when Greece's Finance Minister, Yaris Varoufakis, would not immediately knuckle-under to the EU's financial rape.
Now, as the Grexit crisis nears some sort of final resolution (because there is no more currency available to sustain this economy); Schaeuble has some further points he wishes to make. First this:
German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble does not expect a final agreement on a cash-for-reform [i.e. loans-from-blackmail] between Athens and its creditors at Monday's Eurogroup meeting, he told a newspaper, warning against a Greek default. [emphasis mine]
"Such processes also have irrational elements,"Schaeuble warned, adding: "Experiences from the rest of the world have shown a country can suddenly slide into insolvency."
However, we learn what Schaeuble actually meant by "suddenly sliding into insolvency", when he replies to a question a few paragraphs later:
When asked whether the German government was prepared for a Greek default, Schaeuble said: "There are questions that a responsible politician does not answer." [emphasis mine]
Clearly Mr. Schaeuble, Vampire of the EU, has a very interesting perspective on how a "responsible politician" is supposed to behave.
Reminder: Greece is bankrupt. It has used-up literally every euro it can scrounge out of its economy for its day-to-day operations. The EU refuses to engage in real negotiations. Greece's government refuses to submit to more of this institutionalized financial rape. But a "responsible politician" isn't even supposed to discuss (inevitable) debt-default?
There are only two possible ways in which we can interpret such an attitude. One interpretation is that Germany's "responsible" Finance Minister plans to simply bury his head in the sand, ostrich-style, and hope that somehow this imminent financial catastrophe works itself out. The other interpretation is that even though Germany knows that a Greek default is inevitable and imminent (for reasons above) that "responsible politicians" simply pretend that a solution is possible (right up to the last minute) before surprising the world with a sudden declaration of default.
Of course here we don't have wonder about this either/or scenario, since Schaeuble's prior remarks make it unequivocal that he is not "burying his head in the sand". Thus we have Germany's Finance Minister publicly stating the EU's position (and presumably that of the other "responsible" Vampires) is to publicly pretend that a settlement with Greece will be reached while they privately prepare for this imminent/inevitable default.
It's not at all surprising that these Vampires plan to act (and are acting) in such a cynical and deceitful manner. What is surprising, at least a little, is that these lackey-rapists of the EU are so smug about their own, untouchable positions in this paradigm of institutionalized financial crime that they make little effort to even cover-up their deceit and duplicity.
This isn't how responsible politicians behave in handling international negotiations, (supposedly) aimed at averting further, economic carnage in the nation of Greece. This is how sleazy loan-sharks behave. "Let's 'negotiate'. These are our only terms: we're going to loan you some more money. Do what we say, or else" Lie, bully, and lie some more. And (if necessary) break a few legs.
The process is utterly transparent. This means that the corrupt Corporate media, which unequivocally supports everything the Vampires say and do, is a direct accomplice in this European loan-sharking. But, one way or another; the EU's current bullying and blackmail of Greece can't continue much longer.
Using a currency it doesn't control (the euro); Greece can only obtain the funny-money necessary to finance the day-to-day operations of its economy in two (legitimate) ways. One is through the revenues the government (and the economy itself) generate through domestic industry, commerce, and taxation. The other way is through being given some of the newly-printed euros being cranked-out by the white-hot printing press of the EU.
Even though this funny-money is just conjured out of thin air, by the trillions, costing nothing to produce, backed by nothing, and worth nothing; the European Central Bank won't simply give any of its funny-money to Greece's beleaguered government (and nation). Nor will these corrupt Vampires consider even a single euro of debt-forgiveness (i.e. reduction). Only more loans. Always more loans.
Obviously there are only two possible outcomes, as this crisis enters its final days (at least in its present form). The most-obvious and (sadly) most-likely scenario is that Greece's government will be bribed/blackmailed/bullied sufficiently to submit to more EU rape, join (again) this club-of-corruption of once-sovereign nations, and accept the EU's "bail-out offer": piling billions and billions of euros in additional debt onto a bankrupt economy.
The other scenario is less likely (despite the honesty/integrity demonstrated by this government so far), because it requires that things get worse in Greece, before they get better. Note the previous warning by Vampire Schaeuble. Even though he "does not expect a final agreement"; he was:
warning against a Greek default.
If Greece's government does not submit to this rape; it has no choice but to declare (at least a partial) debt-default. But Schaeuble has already put Greece's government on notice that if Greece does this there will be consequences.
What does this mean? First it means Grexit: kicking Greece out of the EU, to make it easier for the Vampires to exact their revenge (on behalf of their Master). When that happens; Greece will no longer want (or be able to?) use the euro, and so it will create its own currency, likely resuming the use of its former currency, the drachma. What happens then?
We can look to India, where these serial currency-manipulators attacked its currency the rupee, driving it downward in value (and creating enormous harm and suffering) until they managed to blackmail India's government into instituting a gold import embargo. We can look to Russia; where these currency-manipulators unsuccessfully attempted to destroy Russia's economy, by driving its currency (the ruble) as close to zero as possible.
Those were large, powerful nations, with large and (relatively) robust economies. And the One Bank was at least partially successful with its economic terrorism against one, and almost successful against the other. Greece's economy is small, and already in ruin thanks to years of previous economic terrorism.
What happens if Greece tries to break away from this parasitic cabal of slave nations? Almost certainly its economy will be totally destroyed. The One Bank's psychopaths may go all the way toward turning it into a "failed state". Or, the banksters may seek to simply drive this honest government out, get one of Greece's puppet-parties back into power, and then welcome Greece back into the Club.
Greece's only salvation would be strong economic (and political) support from the international community, i.e. those nations outside the corrupt cabal of the West. For incentive to assist Greece; these nations need only consider the famous words of another German, Pastor Martin Niemoller:
First they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Finally, they came for me and there was no one left to speak out.
Without taking any stance on the Euro crisis, this must be one of the worst articles I have read on that subject matter in a long time. Not only does the author seem to lack any basic understanding of economics, finance and politics, but even the linguistic skills are incredibly poor.
Oldsoul said:
Not quite sure what you are implying. The article argues for a write-off of existing debt and not extending further loans to Greece. Given that this is not even a feasible solution I'll leave it at that.
Now if you want to compare Greece to Ireland I don't even know where to start. Completely different economies, mentalities, etc. And Ireland did introduce many austerity measures in addition to requesting a bail-out.
Greece's bailout creditors signal that talks over aid are at an end
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b913c958-101f-11e5-ad5a-00144feabdc0.html
"In a series of meeting in Brussels, Mr Tsipras was told his cash-strapped government must quickly decide whether to accede to more economic reforms or face bankruptcy.
"We need decisions not negotiations now. It's my opinion that the Greek government has to be, I think, a little more realistic," said Donald Tusk, the European Council president, who met Mr Tsipras privately on Wednesday.
"There's no more space for gambling, there's no more time for gambling. The day is coming, I'm afraid, where someone says the game is over."
The IMF was equally direct, announcing its lead negotiators had returned to Washington, citing "major differences" and a lack of progress in negotiations. "There are major differences between us in most key areas," said Gerry Rice, IMF spokesman. "There has been no progress in narrowing these differences recently."
"
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY[/youtube]
The IMF walkout is to me a serious indicator that Greece is going to default. The EU would have done anything it could be the IMF seem to have had enough.
Source:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b913c958-101f-11e5-ad5a-00144feabdc0.html
"In a series of meeting in Brussels, Mr Tsipras was told his cash-strapped government must quickly decide whether to accede to more economic reforms or face bankruptcy.
"We need decisions not negotiations now. It's my opinion that the Greek government has to be, I think, a little more realistic," said Donald Tusk, the European Council president, who met Mr Tsipras privately on Wednesday.
"There's no more space for gambling, there's no more time for gambling. The day is coming, I'm afraid, where someone says the game is over."
The IMF was equally direct, announcing its lead negotiators had returned to Washington, citing "major differences" and a lack of progress in negotiations. "There are major differences between us in most key areas," said Gerry Rice, IMF spokesman. "There has been no progress in narrowing these differences recently."
"
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY[/youtube]
The IMF walkout is to me a serious indicator that Greece is going to default. The EU would have done anything it could be the IMF seem to have had enough.
Source:
nein souvlaki today, try tomorrow
I'm surprised that everyone is surprised over the surprisingly lack of any progress. Greeks are at their best sitting around talking about doing something. To act is against their nature. I expect that they had Angela busy making the coffees and serving the baklava. If she was any younger, they all would have copped a feel. Though metaphorically, they all have.