ESuper's cash grab!?

I guess thats the worse case. We may seek other avenues and speak to some governing bodies to see if its legal.

Theres no harm in asking, what I find is that esuper do not have the courtesy in actually responding the the enquiry. They are ignoring the request. The longer they leave it, the more complex it will get.

They have literally deducted funds, this was not agreed to and we have not signed anything. Maybe I should file a complaint with an accounting board or department of fair trading. You cannot go deducting funds just because if there is a clause in the T/C you have to follow it. So at any time they can change anything and this T/C clause allows them to deduct whatever they want?

If the deed was only updated with the legislation changes fair enough, however there were other bits and pieces added into it. This is what I have problems with.

Either way, hopefully someone else can raise it with esuper as well and see what their response is.

Slam
 
Small claims court. They may terminate their services to you, but you will get a refund (if they've wronged you i.e. not in the contract).
 
Slam - I'll go through the deed changes this weekend (been busy with work have not got around to it like I wanted to) and send off a please explain to Esuper. I'll let you know how it pans out.
 
When they sent me the email saying that they would deduct the $100 on the same day I emailed them back and said the account balance was zero and if a deduction was attempted then I would probably cop a $25 penalty fee. They emailed right back and said "we will pay your penalty fee". I guess they're still $75 up.
 
Thanks Boyracer. Interested to hear your feed back on the deed as well.

Thanks Jparrie, has it been resolved or is it still in dispute state? Seems like they have opened up a can of worms themselves. Please let us know how you go.
 
I'm quite amazed to learn that eSuperfund has access to the withdrawal / transfer functions of our ANZ V2+ accounts! Especially considering they repeat in many places in the establishment package documents that they simply have access to statement data!
 
Emanance said:
I'm quite amazed to learn that eSuperfund has access to the withdrawal / transfer functions of our ANZ V2+ accounts! Especially considering they repeat in many places in the establishment package documents that they simply have access to statement data!
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+1
 
Slam said:
Ok guys, no reply from Esuper. Despite me firing off the email and my brother calling them up a number of times.

We do not intend to take up the new deed, it so happens they are probably trying to ignore the situation.

Can you guys also fire off some emails and try to get a resolution to this? they have already deducted the funds and we want it back.

Is it even legal to deduct funds that you have not authorised? Can I goto ANZ bank and file an issue of unauthorised debit?

The previous deeds already have clauses in which if new legislation is passed, the existing deed will comply with new legislation. So constantly updating to the new deed isn't necessary everytime that the government decides to dick around with super. We do not intend to take out any loans for our SF (recourse or no recourse, does not matter to us).

Slam
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I personally emailed them at least three times about this matter - but it has fallen on deaf ears.
I feel that it is at the very least immoral what they have done, and at worst - illegal!!!
 
Emanance said:
I'm quite amazed to learn that eSuperfund has access to the withdrawal / transfer functions of our ANZ V2+ accounts! Especially considering they repeat in many places in the establishment package documents that they simply have access to statement data!
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It's a direct debit authority (completed when you sign up) and they would be governed by the rules around that although it has been many many years since I last looked at what they are. So not quite the same as a withdrawal functionality. I'm guessing there are grounds to get them reversed although that would be like closing the gate after the horse has bolted. I also think you could block their d/d access by contacting ANZ. Last resort option of course.

Just so happens I have a good mate who is a senior manager with a big 4 bank and an absolute font of knowledge when it comes to banking rules. Think I'll hit him up for some info on DD rules and regs.
 
ESuper is a one size fits all package - you take their bank account, their share broker, their deed, their accounting, their auditing. Their legal advice is to update the deed, or a substantial amount of demand from existing members in updating the deed is communicated to them, then they update the deed for everyone. This is something required for all the members, not just you.

Look at the bright side - The cost of the update is still a tax deductible item to your fund.

I want to bring in another member and therefore individual trustee to my SMSF, which means updating the Deed. Using ClearDocs this costs two thirds the cost of the original Deed and will probably be incurred the same financial year as the original. Not an ideal outcome but that's the way it needs to be.
 
The last year or so I have seen many younger SS members go the "all in bullion" path and use the cheap option of e super.
 
Slam said:
Thanks Jparrie, has it been resolved or is it still in dispute state? Seems like they have opened up a can of worms themselves. Please let us know how you go.
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Well, their deduction didn't happen until I had transferred $100 into the account, so no penalty. I wouldn't cop a penalty from the bank anyway because in theory they aren't technically allowed to charge penalties, but that's for another thread. Only AMP has not credited a penalty fee back to me when I've bitched about it, and they no longer have any of my money.
 
OK so I emailed esuper about this issue on Sunday arvo and surprisingly enough I received a reply 24 hours later. The main thrust of my email was expressing disappointment in how the issue was handled ie no notice etc. The reply from esuper acknowledged this and advised they will give more advance notice of this in future. I note they mention in the original email that the last trust deed was updated in 2007 so I do not expect this to be a regular occurence in future.

Esuper have also promised to refund the fee I was charged. I was not after that but I will take it :)

Slam - I've sent you via PM a copy of my original email and esupers reply in case you find it interesting.

As far as that issue is concerned I'm happy enough with the result and will not be taking it further.

Looking through the actual trust deed changes I can see they are required from the POV of it being a one size fits all trust deed. Having members with unique trust deeds does not fit with their business model and considering the low annual fee is a small price to pay.

The new clause on borrowing does not concern me as I will never require it. The other clauses are fairly minor and I would have thought might have been covered by the clause in the original trust deed requiring the trustee to act in accordance with the legislation but being more specific is no bad thing. The other items detailing changes to the PDS are fairly generic.

All in all I think the $99 is a bit steep but if it only occurs every 3-4 years then to me is not a deal breaker. (Really the main issue is the govt should stop fiddling with the rules but that is another argument altogether).
 
I think it's absolutely a cash grab. I recently transferred to Xpress Super who have a much better offering and they said their deed doesn't need upgrading every time there's a legislative change.

A wrought I tell you!

:mad:
 
Trader101 said:
I think it's absolutely a cash grab. I recently transferred to Xpress Super who have a much better offering and they said their deed doesn't need upgrading every time there's a legislative change.

A wrought I tell you!

:mad:
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Do they let you buy physical PM's? Cant find it on their site.

Cheers
 
mmm....shiney! said:
You may well find yourself receiving a letter from eSuper stating that they cannot manage your SMSF anymore as you have failed to follow their terms and conditions. I have not checked them (the T+C in relation to your objection) and you may not have done anything wrong by them, it's just a friendly warning.

Do not rely on anything they say either on the phone or via email as advice that you can rely on. They will terminate their services regardless of any advice they have given you previously and will not enter into any further correspondence.

So, you have a choice: do as they say and fall into line, or don't and risk getting kicked out.

Good luck.
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Hi Shiney, happens alot, with ESuper, they are an online provider, no personal service, get first year free and if you have a question (which many do) you have no one to ask. I am a SMSF Administrator and I transfer one fund a week from ESuper, they are huge, but alot of people leave after one year......feedback generally is poor service and no communication and after all many of my clients do need assistance for instance if they are concerned about investing in an asset and if they are allowed to....service helps and ESuper does not provide that, pm me if you need more info

Re Trust deed updates, they have 1000's of clients, $100 is steep given the volume of clients, given their lawyer will sign off on one deed (with the IP over the deed) and say $10 per deed admin, so $50 could be reasonable for a cash grab.....
 
Trader101 said:
I think it's absolutely a cash grab. I recently transferred to Xpress Super who have a much better offering and they said their deed doesn't need upgrading every time there's a legislative change.

A wrought I tell you!

:mad:
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Everyone will tell you that Xpress super is not independent and are backed by a corporate, they will have their own price hikes. We have our trust deeds updated all the time and don't pass on to our clients. For any Esuper clients, don't pay the charge and transfer to another provider. We (Redwood Advisory) offer our trust deed free of charge, and has borrowing powers too, all part of the positive customer experience.

The think abt Esuper that I am worried about, is that clients just sign up, and members don't receive education that is required and usually set up funds as individual trustees, when a corporate trustee is beneficial in some many ways particularly if you are investing in property. I can't post links as i assume i'll be breaching the rules but if you need more info pm me or go to the Redwood Advisory website and look at the blogs.

Cheers
 
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