EQUIPMENT - weighing and testing

Fraser

Fraser

Active Member
The amount of fake product coming out of China scares me (see Fakes & Counterfeits Forum) - nothing appears safe anymore!
While (reasonably) confident that other members test their goods before putting them up for sale,
I have no testing equipment whatsoever and obviously need some before I can confidently sell anything.
The problem is, I don't even know where to start, let alone what is good and works and what isn't and doesn't !
Google just directs me to ebay, which is no help, because I need to talk to someone before going shopping.

All that said, (I think) I need:

(1) A set of scales with a sensitivity of 0.01g (for coins) and a range up to 2 to 5 kgs (for bars).
The AND HT120 looks cheap and good for small items, but only has a maximum range up to 120g.

(2) One of those "neodymium magnets", to do the quick magnet test on silver coins.

(3) A set of callipers to measure coin thickness and diameters, etc

(4) A hand held Olympus XRF Analyzer to accurately test alloy composition.
I have seen these in dealer shops but have no idea where to get one.

(5) All the other things I need, but which are currently unknown to me.

So the question is, are there any members of the silver-stackers community with a working knowledge of testing equipment,
who can tell me what brands and models are good and where in Melbourne I can get them for a reasonable price?
Or (at least) who I can go and talk to - please and thankyou...
 
Keep an eye on Grays Online auction site for surplus scales, particularly the Laboratory section. Ebay too of course.
A scientific "analytical balance" is what you want for really fine small measurements. AND is a popular top industry brand, and yes, analytical balances typically max out at a few hundred grams.

A 5MHz ultrasonic thickness gauge with 0.01mm resolution is a useful tool for metal purity testing. Ebay is swamped with cheapies, don't know if they will do the job. Maybe only look for 2nd hand ones. Generally any 2nd hand one will be a better quality industry brand than a Chinese no-namer.
 
It's probably cheaper to buy from reputable dealers/forum members* rather than go to the expense of sourcing and owning all that equipment. Unless you want a hobby as well.

*naturally "Windbags" are excluded.
 
I have a number of tests I do to measure things such as weight, density and the eddy current test, and I only had to buy a cheap $20 set of scales and some magnets. There's also heaps of information on the internet on the tests you can do with these simple tools.
 
EBay laboratory scales and calipers. Bullion deposit has a precious metals verifier that is cheaper and in my opinion better than xrf.
 
PMV is nice, I use it a lot but you really have to understand the concept behind it. Some people think you can throw anything on it and it will show if it's gold/silver/...

It's very useful and fast for 999+ gold and silver coins and bars. Anything less pure, not so much. Jewelry - useless.
 
GoldenEye said:
I have a number of tests I do to measure things such as weight, density and the eddy current test, and I only had to buy a cheap $20 set of scales and some magnets. There's also heaps of information on the internet on the tests you can do with these simple tools.
Click to expand...

GoldenEye, could you please expand on those tests, the equipment you use and where you got that equipment?
If the economic situation unfolds as we expect, then PMs will return and this is going to become vital information for everyone...
Same goes for other comments please - get real windy - go Hurricane Cat 5 on me!
 
Top of the morning to you, Mr. Windbag ;)

Scales - most stackers use cheap and cheerful digital scales bought on eBay. There's a certain sense of irony in using cheap Chinese scales to check for cheap Chinese fakes. But if you want to go full retard, you might consider these scales: http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-74366-now-this-is-how-you-weigh-a-bar.html :P

Ultrasonic thickness testers - see these threads from GP (caution: Windbag Index of 117.3) - http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-24935-ultrasonic-thickness-testing.html and http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-27287-ultrasonic-thickness-testing-of-a-fake-silver-bar.html

A "name-brand" hand-held XRF analyzer will cost you about $10k second-hand, $20k upwards for a new one. If you do buy one, please learn how to use it properly (i.e. safely) so you don't irradiate yourself or any bystanders. Alternatively, I believe Goldstackers offer XRF testing for a gold coin donation to charity.

The Precious Metals Verifier (PMV) made by Sigma Analytics is well worth considering, see http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-59307-precious-metal-verifier.html

Lastly, there are many previous posts about testing equipment - use the Search function (top menu) with suitable keywords. Happy searching!

Have a wonderfully windy day :)
 
Golden said:
PMV is nice, I use it a lot but you really have to understand the concept behind it. Some people think you can throw anything on it and it will show if it's gold/silver/...

It's very useful and fast for 999+ gold and silver coins and bars. Anything less pure, not so much. Jewelry - useless.
Click to expand...
Agreed except for the "only 999+.
Two alternatives. 1 you can add your own calibration. 2 I found instructions on how to turn the device on in such a way you can see the measure of the metre. You can then identify non 999 metals with some playing around. There are some good you tube videos of this.

But I agree with the jewelry comment and I found the ultra high relief (legends of asgard) coins troublesome.
 
whinfell said:
Top of the morning to you, Mr. Windbag
Click to expand...

Thanks whinfell, I think some clever member needs to sit down and present a detailed "sticky" on this subject.
Because every newbie is going to ask the same questions (3 year registration, but only remembered my password last week).
Even Ben (the golden pelican himself and really nice guy by the way) doesn't name the brand or where he got it.
Others are talking about "Eddy Current" and "PMV" testing instead of "Ultrasonic" or "XRF" and there's bound to be others.
And no discussion yet on the best brands and where to get scales & calipers and the fancy magnets etc...
Looks like I've got weeks of work in front of me - prefer if someone just produced that detailed "sticky"!

Special thanks also to Phil_S for opening my eyes to the Sigma Metalytics PMV, because if you can calibrate the settings,
then it is both (much) cheaper and superior to the XRF (only surface microns tested) and the Ultrasonic tester which requires goo (not suitable for high value coins).
Thanks, just saved me around $15,000+ !!! But wish he had also mentioned the best brands of scales and calipers.

PS. During the Goldrush, I'm told more people made money by selling picks and shovels than by digging.
So perhaps one (or more) of us should go into the PM testing business...
Because I can't find anyone who is currently set-up and positioned to capture the coming boom!
 
It really depends on what you're buying. If you're after pre decimal coins you don't really need anything as there's very few fakes out there. If you're only after 999 silver I would only use cheap scales and magnets. However, anything such as sterling which is not pure silver, or even hollow 999 jewellery is difficult to check without the more expensive equipment.

I understand you're only after silver, so if you stick to pre decimal coins or 999 bars or 999 coins, you should be able to check these very cheaply with the cheap scales, magnets, and info on the internet. However, if you want an easy test method in a single piece of equipment, you will need something like the PMV.
 
Fraser said:
whinfell said:
Top of the morning to you, Mr. Windbag
Click to expand...

Thanks whinfell, I think some clever member needs to sit down and present a detailed "sticky" on this subject.
Because every newbie is going to ask the same questions (3 year registration, but only remembered my password last week).
Even Ben (the golden pelican himself and really nice guy by the way) doesn't name the brand or where he got it.
Others are talking about "Eddy Current" and "PMV" testing instead of "Ultrasonic" or "XRF" and there's bound to be others.
And no discussion yet on the best brands and where to get scales & calipers and the fancy magnets etc...
Looks like I've got weeks of work in front of me - prefer if someone just produced that detailed "sticky"!

PS. During the Goldrush, I'm told more people made money by selling picks and shovels than by digging.
So perhaps one (or more) of us should go into the PM testing business...
Because I can't find anyone who is currently set-up and positioned to capture the coming boom!
Click to expand...

I believe this is true :) but did you know this though -

In 1995 when Minelab's first P.I. (pulse indicator) machine the SD 2000 hit the Goldfields of Victoria giving a bit more depth it was rumored that it made over 500 new milliomaires :P but as technology has improved you are having to dig even deeper to find the yellow stuff = bobcat or backhoe :lol:

Anyway I thought you might like to know :)
 
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