eBay Panda discussions

Yep, you're right. Spots do not affect the grade. It might have been graded that way, or it might have developed spots after the grading was done.

One of the issues with PCGS holders is that they do not do as good a job at keeping air out as the NGC holders.
 
Err. I believe milk spots does affect grading. I am not convinced if the coin has milk spot at the time of grading it will still receive ms70.

If it happens after the grading, perhaps the buyer should return the coin to PCGS under their Grading Guarantee.

I think if they receive enough return they will do something about the milk spot, especially now that they are so hungry for Chinese coin grading business.
 
low said:
Err. I believe milk spots does affect grading. I am not convinced if the coin has milk spot at the time of grading it will still receive ms70.

If it happens after the grading, perhaps the buyer should return the coin to PCGS under their Grading Guarantee.

I think if they receive enough return they will do something about the milk spot, especially now that they are so hungry for Chinese coin grading business.
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They use 'technical grading' methods as far as I recall (don't quote me for it though!).

That means it is a point scoring/criteria based assessment and not a judgment call by the grader.

This allows for consistency in grading and removes the human element (or so it's assumed; we know it's not true, humans are humans).

White spots aren't on their grading criteria as of now (I believe) but they really should account for them.

I find white spots to be annoying, I'd rather see toning or slight scratch than white spot.
 
I agree white spots should be included in the grading, I cant beleive it is not. I wouldnt buy any coin with white spots no matter how much I wanted the coin
 
From www.cointalk.com

Question: Why doesn't PCGS grade Silver American Eagles in MS-70?

Answer: The chemical rinse that the U.S. Mint uses on these coins can cause white spots to develop over time. In most cases, the spots cannot be removed. Until that problem is resolved, the responsible choice for PCGS is to stay away from the MS-70 grade, even though some technically perfect examples exist.

-- Ron Guth, PCGS President
 
Btw, PCGS has published a book on how they grade US coins, and the numerical grading is a much complicated than average collector could handle. It is said the same grading standard is applicable to every coins.

Anyway grading has evolved, for the good or bad, over the years. But white spot is white spot, most of the time it is active corrosion. It is a problem, and it is not in the best interest of PCGS to give perfect grade for a problem coin. At one time they refused to give MS70 to American Eagle, I am not sure if this has changed, but my question is, why do they give perfect grade to white spot panda coins?

It is different story if the white spot developed after the grading and encapsulation. Then I am interested if anyone actually reported it to PCGS and what their response is.
 
I guess I should have specified. I'm pretty sure NGC doesn't count white spots against the grade. PCGS cares much more about how a coin looks than NGC does.

oops, looks like I'm wrong:

Dark spots of corrosion and white "milk spots" are both detracting to the eye appeal of Proofs. A spot in the field will be more noticeable than a white spot on a frosty device. Spots are weighted similarly to the bagmarks found on Uncirculated coins. The number, location and size of the spots determine how much the grade is affected.

So they are minor annoyances and would reduce a coin from a 70 to 69 (for example).
 
I've got a NGC PF69 with one white spot and 2 tiny black spots, guess it would've been a 70 if it didn't :P
 
tamo42 said:
I guess I should have specified. I'm pretty sure NGC doesn't count white spots against the grade. PCGS cares much more about how a coin looks than NGC does.

oops, looks like I'm wrong:

Dark spots of corrosion and white "milk spots" are both detracting to the eye appeal of Proofs. A spot in the field will be more noticeable than a white spot on a frosty device. Spots are weighted similarly to the bagmarks found on Uncirculated coins. The number, location and size of the spots determine how much the grade is affected.

So they are minor annoyances and would reduce a coin from a 70 to 69 (for example).
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Cool!
 
fishball said:
I've got a NGC PF69 with one white spot and 2 tiny black spots, guess it would've been a 70 if it didn't :P
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I bought two NGC MS69's recently and was upset they had milkspots that I didnt know about when I bought them, would have found others if I knew. They were like that for the grading as at least one is clearly visible on the NGC photos.
Definately 70's without the spots!
 
kingzac said:
fishball said:
I've got a NGC PF69 with one white spot and 2 tiny black spots, guess it would've been a 70 if it didn't :P
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I bought two NGC MS69's recently and was upset they had milkspots that I didnt know about when I bought them, would have found others if I knew. They were like that for the grading as at least one is clearly visible on the NGC photos.
Definately 70's without the spots!
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Yeah that's a risk I take when buying slabs from US, some sellers don't disclose properly but luckily I've only been burnt once so far.
 
I guess the safer way is to always insist spots free NCS conserved coin.

Any visible spots are bad, and will negatively affect the resale value, be it in OMP, low MS or high MS grade.
 
1987 ngc 67 5oz panda for 450 us

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300645424764?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

shipping to aus is 18.50 for item orders under 500,and 39.50 for orders over 500. and you can also claim another 25 us off the purchase price if you claim the promotion from their site (for first time buyers), rarecoincollector.net.

they also have ngc ms69 graded 08 1oz pandas for $100. (listed on site for $110 but will honour ebay buy it now price.)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/220922095876?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


bought some myself so thought i would give someone else on ss a chance to grab some bargains
 
alexisio said:
I have a 2010 PCGS 69 Panda it has at least a dozen spots on it ! Could it have been graded like that?
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I've had a pretty hard time getting a spot/stain-free 2010 off of eBay. This year seems particularly sensitive. I've sent 3 of these back to NGC for 'appearance review'. They agreed that the coin was not worthy of MS69 with the spots and milk stains and I was reimbursed for those 3. I recently sent another 3 and am waiting for them to respond.

The database photos of these coins in the NGC registry were spotless, so it seems the issue arose after the coin was graded and encapsulated. I'm actually curious if it is the result of a solution or wash the coins go through during grading because the staining is much different than the milk stains you generally see on Maples for instance.

Either way, if you have a coin w/ spots or stains that you think is over-graded, send it to NGC for review. Its a free service and you will either be compensated or get the coin replaced if they agree with you.
 
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