Dogecoin has hit 0.015 $!

[southerncross]

OK, but If my income is Zero, IE: I don't have a job, an Employer doesn't ever pay any payroll tax etc on my behalf, zero super and all that, I don't ever qualify for a tax return because I don't have a Job. My effective Tax rate is Zero. So in effect any capital Gain I achieve is taxed at my going rate which is also ZERO.
I earn below the taxable income amount, I get taxed at my income amount even with Capital Gains.
If my effective income amount is Zero then My capital Gains are also taxed at Zero.

 

[long88]

southern cross.

you got it wrong mate. if you made 50k profit in crypto, half of those goes to cgt. then the $25k goes towards your personal income tax table, which 18k will be tax free.

as how ato works, it wont bite you now, but they will wait and build a case and gather evidence, until the day comes (please explain !!!), and you better have some money put aside (also unexplained wealth ?)

 

[southerncross]

southern cross.

you got it wrong mate. if you made 50k profit in crypto, half of those goes to cgt. then the $25k goes towards your personal income tax table, which 18k will be tax free.

as how ato works, it wont bite you now, but they will wait and build a case and gather evidence, until the day comes (please explain !!!), and you better have some money put aside (also unexplained wealth ?)

Straight off , how would you compute my taxable income level ?

 

[leo25]

Straight off , how would you compute my taxable income level ?

https://www.paycalculator.com.au
It's not one fixed rate, it gets taxed the same as if you had a job. There is no difference.

So on $50k you would get taxed a total of $8500. If you held that one specific crypto for over a year then you would get taxed on only 50% of the gains, so $25k. On $25k you would only get taxed $1200.

My advice, pay the correct tax. The ato is going to come down heavy on someone to scare everyone else to pay taxes on cryptos, don't be that person. It's a stress you don't need in your life. Just be happy about the crazy gains that have been made in crypto land.

 

[leo25]

southern cross.

you got it wrong mate. if you made 50k profit in crypto, half of those goes to cgt.

That's assuming he held that one specific crypto for over a year. Otherwise all of it goes onto his taxable income. CGT is not a separate tax, the ato makes this very clear.

To my understanding, every time you do a trade (convert one crypto to another) the clock resets. Hardly anyone holds cryptos, so I would imagine most will get taxed on 100% of the gains.

 

[jerrygold]

They are right southerncross. Anything you have brought into aussie dollars they will know about. If you reach some figure of around ~50K-100K unexplained income in a year you will likely get audited. Doesn't matter if its paypal, bank transfers from randoms or exchanges. The key is aussie dollars, they control that.

Just go over what you have got in aussie dollars from crypto, minus any outgoings in aussie dollars into cryptos and you will reach the amount you will be taxed on. You can apply for a 50% CGT discount if you have held the cryptos over a year but I have no idea how they would prove that anyhow.

The same applies for everyone doing metal trades but it seems like this isn't an issue for most people because they are doing relatively small trades.

 

[jerrygold]

That's assuming he held that one specific crypto for over a year. Otherwise all of it goes onto his taxable income. CGT is not a separate tax, the ato makes this very clear.

To my understanding, every time you do a trade (convert one crypto to another) the clock resets. Hardly anyone holds cryptos, so I would imagine most will get taxed on 100% of the gains.

Yeah imagine the ATO trying to prove you didn't hold a crypto over a year, all those crypto experts they have there who if they are crypto experts are making way more money trading than working.

 

[leo25]

Yeah imagine the ATO trying to prove you didn't hold a crypto over a year, all those crypto experts they have there who if they are crypto experts are making way more money trading than working.

They (ato) won't have to prove it. It will be up to you to prove you did have it for over a year (if they pick you out.) My advice, don't bother applying for the 50% reduction unless you can prove it.

 

[jerrygold]

They (ato) won't have to prove it. It will be up to you to prove you did have it for over a year (if they pick you out.) My advice, don't bother applying for the 50% reduction unless you can prove it.

Like I said, how would they know a valid crypto thing from a finger in their ass? Hint. They wouldn't.

 

[leo25]

Like I said, how would they know a valid crypto thing from a finger in their ass? Hint. They wouldn't.

At this point everything is unknown. I would imagine if you use an Australian exchange they will be able to see everything you do. If you trade on an overseas exchange then i would imaging they won't know. Unless something is being setup between governments where they share all exchanges info. So for example Coinbase might give all Australian citizens activity to the ato.

Since the vast majority of all crypto activity happens on exchanges, then it's all very easy to sort through and see every trade you did. There is a reason why you have to give a lot of info to get registered on a exchange.

But like I said, they will put it onto you to prove it all. So guilty until proven innocent. So if you are going to claim the 50% reduction for having it over one year, you better be able to prove it.

 

[Soprano16]

I haven't deposited a cent into an Australian Exchange, but I have done some exchanging within one and will be using them to withdraw portions from time to time

How are they going to track anything I have done? The whole reason we are in crypto is because we are sick of governments/banks trying to control us

We don't pay tax on gambling in Australia (because it's near impossible to prove your wins/losses) so why the hell should the government get a massive chunk of our crypto profits for doing nothing at all, and if anything being against crypto?

Between selling crypto privately (whether for cash or gold/silver) and making small withdraws (under 5k) at a time through an Australian exchange I can't imagine it being too hard to avoid paying any tax

 

[jerrygold]

At this point everything is unknown. I would imagine if you use an Australian exchange they will be able to see everything you do. If you trade on an overseas exchange then i would imaging they won't know. Unless something is being setup between governments where they share all exchanges info. So for example Coinbase might give all Australian citizens activity to the ato.

Since the vast majority of all crypto activity happens on exchanges, then it's all very easy to sort through and see every trade you did. There is a reason why you have to give a lot of info to get registered on a exchange.

But like I said, they will put it onto you to prove it all. So guilty until proven innocent. So if you are going to claim the 50% reduction for having it over one year, you better be able to prove it.

Even if an exchange sends all the trade information, which there could be thousands/millions depending upon the person, what will they do with it? They are going to calculate tax on all those conversions back and forth? It would be an insane amount of work for just one person. Them doing this for everyone who trades crypto? Laughable. Probably a million people in Australia have traded crypto now.

The ato does have to prove you did something wrong when it goes to court so they need evidence to prove it and calculate the amount owed to them. They can't just pull shit out of thin air.

 

[jerrygold]

I haven't deposited a cent into an Australian Exchange, but I have done some exchanging within one and will be using them to withdraw portions from time to time

How are they going to track anything I have done? The whole reason we are in crypto is because we are sick of governments/banks trying to control us

We don't pay tax on gambling in Australia (because it's near impossible to prove your wins/losses) so why the hell should the government get a massive chunk of our crypto profits for doing nothing at all, and if anything being against crypto?

Between selling crypto privately (whether for cash or gold/silver) and making small withdraws (under 5k) at a time through an Australian exchange I can't imagine it being too hard to avoid paying any tax

Unless you are making large amounts you are most definitely going to fall in the cracks. On the macro level the ATO will know income from an exchange is different than a random bank transfer. That being said they won't know it should be taxable without a more thorough investigation of which there is limited resources.

ATO has your complete bank records at their disposal so every time you do any bank activity they know it. Any activity, any amount so that is how they track it. Higher transfers just get you looked at quicker but all your records are accessible by them for awhile now. They know where you shop, if you buy alcohol, how often, etc. There is no privacy anymore.

 

[Soprano16]

You could even look at spreading it around too

Withdraw some into your own account, your parents account, your partners account etc etc

Most transfers/bank deposits under 5k don't really garner any attention and rightly so. If you have an exit strategy in place and $$ target levels you are aiming towards then it should be quite simple, but that's assuming we don't wake up one day to an instant crash

 

[leo25]

Even if an exchange sends all the trade information, which there could be thousands/millions depending upon the person, what will they do with it? They are going to calculate tax on all those conversions back and forth? It would be an insane amount of work for just one person. Them doing this for everyone who trades crypto? Laughable. Probably a million people in Australia have traded crypto now.

The ato does have to prove you did something wrong when it goes to court so they need evidence to prove it and calculate the amount owed to them. They can't just pull shit out of thin air.

I've known people that have been audited and they were forced to prove their self innocent (luckily they had the paper work to prove they did the correct thing). There is no point trying to convince anyone that you will be fine. Some people evade paying tax their whole life and never get caught and some do get caught. Like anything in life, it's a risk. If you think the risk is worth taking then that's your call.

A little tip for everyone. If you do plan to evade paying tax, don't go telling everyone on a public forum.

 

[leo25]

Between selling crypto privately (whether for cash or gold/silver) and making small withdraws (under 5k) at a time through an Australian exchange I can't imagine it being too hard to avoid paying any tax

A lot of people will want a big cash out so they can live the Bitcoin rich life. At that level there is no hiding.

 

[leo25]

Anyway Dogecoin is still rising. Now at $0.017. much wow!

With a tweet like;

Happy New Year to all the shibes out there! May your 2018 be full of wow #HappyNewYear

How could it not go up

 

[jerrygold]

I've known people that have been audited and they were forced to prove their self innocent (luckily they had the paper work to prove they did the correct thing). There is no point trying to convince anyone that you will be fine. Some people evade paying tax their whole life and never get caught and some do get caught. Like anything in life, it's a risk. If you think the risk is worth taking then that's your call.

That is different, when the ATO come at you and want information of course you have to supply something to satisfy them.

If it goes to court though they actually need evidence of foul play. The thing is though that in most cases they won't even start an investigation until they have evidence of foul play which will allow crypto to slide through like a greased up kitten. It seems your friend stated something on their tax returns that he should have had the data to prove anyhow.

Everyone should pay the tax required of them because you will nearly always lose unless you are rich. The last organization you want on your back is the ATO.