Does buying physical silver bullion mean you are investing?

mmissinglink

mmissinglink

Active Member
Unequivocally YES!

No matter what your reason is for buying physical silver bullion, the goal is to come out at the end on top of where you'd be if you spent that money on other commodities or other vehicles of preserving or increasing wealth.

Sorry to have to break the news to some of you who believe otherwise but buying silver bullion is a form of investing. If instead of buying silver bullion you used your fiat money to buy other physical assets or commodities like diamonds as just one example, thinking that diamonds will preserve or increase wealth, that would also mean you engaged in a form of investing.

All investments carry real and significant risk; the purchase of physical silver is a risky investment. That's especially true for all those stackers (and there are many) who believe that manipulation is the main cause of what the price of silver is on a daily basis, day after day, year after year.


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I also buy socks. Does that mean I'm investing in socks? If there was some kind of guarantees that silver would stay at today's price for the rest of my lifetime, I'd still buy it even though there is zero chance of my "investment" increasing in value.
 
If you are purchasing socks because you think that over time this will preserve or increase your wealth, then yes, socks is an investment for you.

An investment does not have to increase in relative value...it can be an asset or commodity that maintains relative wealth.

If you are buying silver bullion because you like the way it shines, then you are buying it for a totally different reason than the vast majority of people who buy physical silver bullion. And in that case, you'd probably want to buy this extra shiney 1 oz silver APMEX round that I have for sale...I'll give it to you for a great price of only $60,000. The shine would be worth that much to you I'll bet.



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Standard meaning says it is expected to increase wealth, not merely preserve.

Definition of 'Investment'


An asset or item that is purchased with the hope that it will generate income or appreciate in the future. In an economic sense, an investment is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth. In finance, an investment is a monetary asset purchased with the idea that the asset will provide income in the future or appreciate and be sold at a higher price.

Investopedia explains 'Investment'


The building of a factory used to produce goods and the investment one makes by going to college or university are both examples of investments in the economic sense.

In the financial sense investments include the purchase of bonds, stocks or real estate property.

Be sure not to get 'making an investment' and 'speculating' confused. Investing usually involves the creation of wealth whereas speculating is often a zero-sum game; wealth is not created. Although speculators are often making informed decisions, speculation cannot usually be categorized as traditional investing.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/investment.asp

~ ~
For myself, I do expect to increase my financial standing as opposed to not buying silver, so it is an investment.
In one possible scenario, fiat becomes worthless, my silver may be worth no more than I paid for it, but it allows me to make purchases that I could not make with the fiat I traded for the silver. Not likely, but still an investment.
I am wealthier with the silver.
 
"I also buy socks. Does that mean I'm investing in socks?"


When the price of everything triples+++, then you can open a socks shop! In its own way, a pair of socks serves the same purpose as an ASE!



JMO


OC

Edit! (UNUSED SOCKS!)
 
mmissinglink said:
If you are purchasing socks because you think that over time this will preserve or increase your wealth, then yes, socks is an investment for you.

An investment does not have to increase in relative value...it can be an asset or commodity that maintains relative wealth.

If you are buying silver bullion because you like the way it shines, then you are buying it for a totally different reason than the vast majority of people who buy physical silver bullion. And in that case, you'd probably want to buy this extra shiney 1 oz silver APMEX round that I have for sale...I'll give it to you for a great price of only $60,000. The shine would be worth that much to you I'll bet.



.
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I have easy access to Apmex rounds for a little over spot but if I didn't and wanted it, I'd pay way more. I have a 1970 Mercury Cougar 428 Cobra Jet Eliminator that I paid way over book value for. I knew I was paying more than book for it but they are hard to find and I wanted it. I would hardly call it an investment. I do invest but when I do, its in the stock market. Not everything you buy or collect is an investment
 
I agree. Let's see.. 7 billion people.. we are in a age where car's are being made every 18 seconds and I bet you phones and computers every couple of seconds (unless customized) but the generic stuff are being made in seconds and by the millions.. Go back 10 years and you dont even have a iphone..

Now imagine 30 year's from now.. you think with the increasing population and the new toy's that will be on the market, the silver price will be a nice cool 20 dollars an ounce? in less than 5 year's time we will see a billion ounces of silver being consumed.. right now its around 750ish but wait and see what happens in 30 years time.


In 30 year's I doubt america will even exist lmao
 
Definition said:
Definition of INSURANCE
2: a means of guaranteeing protection or safety
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I think you'll find this is also the case in many people's thinking.

Also it's very vague when we talk about "value" as "fiat money" is currently the standard.
No longer is it: (just a few examples)
1) hours of labour as not all labour is valued equally
2) function as we can source expensive "brands" with relatively little difference for a greater "price"
3) quality. Although the maxim you get what you pay for, often still holds true, often it doesn't and this wasn't always this way.

Also an investment in the sense of increased purchasing power relative to other goods then I think most people here agree that silver is "undervalued" especially when compared to things like real estate.

Investment means I would imagine "the action/contract of removing one's covering" (from vestimentum)

When looking at the modern definition of investment it pretty much stands for something purchased (action/contract/share etc) for an increase in fiat currency. But because of the situation with fiat currency and the fraud that it is... I think there is a better definition.

Definition said:
Full Definition of SAVING
1: preservation from danger or destruction : deliverance
2: the act or an instance of economizing
3 a plural : money put by
b : the excess of income over consumption expenditures often used in plural
c : a usually specified lower cost often used in plural <a savings of 50 percent>
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Therefore I think this is probably the most appropriate is SAVINGS as in to SAVE.

Perhaps this is the most profound reason. Think about it.

EDIT:
I should add that by "investing" - removing one's covering - we usually get a return because we are "naked" and are taking a risk. In another real sense I feel the exact opposite about silver because of (1) history (2) foresight (3) silver is money (4) I believe that people who have "savings" silver are "covering" themselves by "insurance".

So I am doing in a literal sense of the word investment, the opposite.
 
Yes it's an investment, meaning in the future a buyer of silver expects it to be exchangeable for more cash than he paid. Moreover most expect it to be a better investment than real estate, shares, antique, fine art, wine, bonds or term deposits, which so far it is miserably failing to do. However it does provide some diversity in investment if you also have some of the others.

Socks are for consumption
 
Socks are for consumption. Silver is the worst investment you can make. Buy silver for insurance or as a hobby. The point I'm trying to make is that what you spend money on is not necessarily an investment. If you are buying silver for investment purposes, you need to need to educate yourself on investing.
 
Some people stack silver as an insurance police if SHTF. But for anything else, I see it more as speculation than an investment. An investment has a long term slow gain. Sure, it requires taking risks, but only when the odds are in your favor. Speculating is similar to gambling, where you buy with the hopes of selling it quickly and turning a fast profit, and the risks are larger.

Seeing how silver has some pretty wild swings, you can't say with certainty where price will be in 1, 5, and 10 years. I don't care how good your crystal ball is.



Edit: HERE is a prime example of how his silver "investment" backfired. Now if he initially put that money in a different type of asset, or even just left it in fiat, he would have retained much more of his wealth.



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iluvbeanz said:
... I see it more as speculation than an investment....
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Yes, that's right I guess. 'Investment' is like where you buy a fish and chip shop and work it, or where you put money into the stock of a company with a long term view and expecting management to work the capital.

Buying silver with the view that it is undervalued and anticipating the sale of that silver in the future when it is overvalued is a 'Speculation' - so individually I have been speculating for the last 11 or 12 years in silver.

Buying silver because you believe it will hold its value well whereas something else like a term deposit will not - what is that? That's a form of saving surely? Although it implies speculative considerations about the future price.

Buying silver because it will hold or increase its exchangeable value in a time of economic calamity and upheaval would be best described as an insurance strategy? But again it implies speculation about the future price, or 'barterable' attributes.
 
a1nipper said:
mmissinglink said:
If you are purchasing socks because you think that over time this will preserve or increase your wealth, then yes, socks is an investment for you.

An investment does not have to increase in relative value...it can be an asset or commodity that maintains relative wealth.

If you are buying silver bullion because you like the way it shines, then you are buying it for a totally different reason than the vast majority of people who buy physical silver bullion. And in that case, you'd probably want to buy this extra shiney 1 oz silver APMEX round that I have for sale...I'll give it to you for a great price of only $60,000. The shine would be worth that much to you I'll bet.



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Click to expand...
I have easy access to Apmex rounds for a little over spot but if I didn't and wanted it, I'd pay way more. I have a 1970 Mercury Cougar 428 Cobra Jet Eliminator that I paid way over book value for. I knew I was paying more than book for it but they are hard to find and I wanted it. I would hardly call it an investment. I do invest but when I do, its in the stock market. Not everything you buy or collect is an investment
Click to expand...



You are missing the entire point.

I never stated ANYWHERE that anything someone buys or collects is an investment. I'm not even sure how you can misconstrue so badly what the simple point is.

Anyway, there's no point in trying to explain in yet another way to you that when someone buys bullion for the purpose of preserving or increasing wealth that this constitutes an investment of their fiat money and concurrently that there are risks involved with this and all forms of investing.


The reason why buying silver is NOT "insurance" is because the working definition of insurance in a financial context must include a guarantee of protection against loss. Blobs of silver does not and can not provide this. We understand this every single time we learn that the silver price consolidates or drops. And besides, there is NO guarantee whatsoever that silver will retain it's value over time. That's why it is an investment (with risk obviously), NOT insurance.

As for "speculation", speculation is NOT mutually exclusive from investments. In fact, I would argue that most investments are speculative in one form or another.



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mmissinglink said:
a1nipper said:
mmissinglink said:
If you are purchasing socks because you think that over time this will preserve or increase your wealth, then yes, socks is an investment for you.

An investment does not have to increase in relative value...it can be an asset or commodity that maintains relative wealth.

If you are buying silver bullion because you like the way it shines, then you are buying it for a totally different reason than the vast majority of people who buy physical silver bullion. And in that case, you'd probably want to buy this extra shiney 1 oz silver APMEX round that I have for sale...I'll give it to you for a great price of only $60,000. The shine would be worth that much to you I'll bet.



.
Click to expand...
I have easy access to Apmex rounds for a little over spot but if I didn't and wanted it, I'd pay way more. I have a 1970 Mercury Cougar 428 Cobra Jet Eliminator that I paid way over book value for. I knew I was paying more than book for it but they are hard to find and I wanted it. I would hardly call it an investment. I do invest but when I do, its in the stock market. Not everything you buy or collect is an investment
Click to expand...



You are missing the entire point.

I never stated ANYWHERE that anything someone buys or collects is an investment. I'm not even sure how you can misconstrue so badly what the simple point is.

Anyway, there's no point in trying to explain in yet another way to you that when someone buys bullion for the purpose of preserving or increasing wealth that this constitutes an investment of their fiat money and concurrently that there are risks involved with this and all forms of investing.


The reason why buying silver is NOT "insurance" is because the working definition of insurance in a financial context must include a guarantee of protection against loss. Blobs of silver does not and can not provide this. We understand this every single time we learn that the silver price consolidates or drops. And besides, there is NO guarantee whatsoever that silver will retain it's value over time. That's why it is an investment, NOT insurance.

As for "speculation", speculation is NOT mutually exclusive from investments. In fact, I would argue that most investments are speculative in one form or another.


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Insurance like all other contracts is not absolute, its a concept typically with a counter party. Therefore insurance in itself is a risk. Definitions in and of themselves are not the full picture and are by nature circular. But ive only done 3 years of doing linguistics, what do I know? :)

Silver can be an insurance and savings. It is also a risk that has its own profile like an insurance. And with insurance an event typical takes place that can trigger its potential.

Also the future is by definition unpredictable though we do know that we are always heading into uncharted waters.

Wisdom is the key, just ask.

James 1:5
 
I have 500 rolls of toilet paper stashed away.. when the SHTF, I plan to make a bundle.
 
Miloman said:
mmissinglink said:
a1nipper said:
I have easy access to Apmex rounds for a little over spot but if I didn't and wanted it, I'd pay way more. I have a 1970 Mercury Cougar 428 Cobra Jet Eliminator that I paid way over book value for. I knew I was paying more than book for it but they are hard to find and I wanted it. I would hardly call it an investment. I do invest but when I do, its in the stock market. Not everything you buy or collect is an investment
Click to expand...



You are missing the entire point.

I never stated ANYWHERE that anything someone buys or collects is an investment. I'm not even sure how you can misconstrue so badly what the simple point is.

Anyway, there's no point in trying to explain in yet another way to you that when someone buys bullion for the purpose of preserving or increasing wealth that this constitutes an investment of their fiat money and concurrently that there are risks involved with this and all forms of investing.


The reason why buying silver is NOT "insurance" is because the working definition of insurance in a financial context must include a guarantee of protection against loss. Blobs of silver does not and can not provide this. We understand this every single time we learn that the silver price consolidates or drops. And besides, there is NO guarantee whatsoever that silver will retain it's value over time. That's why it is an investment, NOT insurance.

As for "speculation", speculation is NOT mutually exclusive from investments. In fact, I would argue that most investments are speculative in one form or another.


.

.
Click to expand...

Insurance like all other contracts is not absolute, its a concept typically with a counter party. Therefore insurance in itself is a risk. Definitions in and of themselves are not the full picture and are by nature circular. But ive only done 3 years of doing linguistics, what do I know? :)

Silver can be an insurance and savings. It is also a risk that has its own profile like an insurance. And with insurance an event typical takes place that can trigger its potential.

Also the future is by definition unpredictable though we do know that we are always heading into uncharted waters.

Wisdom is the key, just ask.

James 1:5
Click to expand...


I never said anything about insurance being foolproof (absolute). But the important point that I think you are missing is that when you buy insurance what you are intending to buy is essentially a guarantee of protection against loss. That's exactly what insurance is....there would be no other sound reason to buy it if that's not what it is. Blobs of silver is not and can not be insurance as some misguided stackers claim it is. It's an investment with its own set of risks.




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mmissinglink said:
I never said anything about insurance being foolproof (absolute). But the important point that I think you are missing is that when you buy insurance what you are intending to buy is essentially a guarantee of protection against loss. That's exactly what insurance is....there would be no other sound reason to buy it if that's not what it is. Blobs of silver is not and can not be insurance as some misguided stackers claim it is. It's an investment with its own set of risks.
Click to expand...

I disagree. And you are by using the word "guarantee". I am not going to start to get into counter party risk and non-performance.

Definition said:
guarantee
gar()nti/
noun
noun: guarantee; plural noun: guarantees; noun: guaranty; plural noun: guaranties

1.
a formal assurance (typically in writing) that certain conditions will be fulfilled, especially that a product will be repaired or replaced if not of a specified quality.
"we offer a 10-year guarantee against rusting"
synonyms: warranty, warrant, contract, covenant, bond, assurance, promise More
"all repairs have a one-year guarantee"
something that ensures a particular outcome.
"a degree is no guarantee of a fast-track career"
synonyms: promise, assurance, word, word of honour, pledge, vow, oath, bond, commitment More
"they gave their guarantee that the hospital would stay open"
2.
Law
an undertaking to answer for the payment or performance of another person's debt or obligation in the event of a default by the person primarily responsible for it.
a thing serving as security for a guarantee.
less common term for guarantor.
synonyms: guarantor, warrantor, underwriter, voucher, sponsor, supporter, backer; More
bondsman
"I will not venture to be your guarantee"

verb
verb: guarantee; 3rd person present: guarantees; past tense: guaranteed; past participle: guaranteed; gerund or present participle: guaranteeing

1.
provide a formal assurance, especially that certain conditions will be fulfilled relating to a product, service, or transaction.
"the company guarantees to refund your money"
provide a guarantee for.
"the cooker is guaranteed for five years"
provide financial security for; underwrite.
"a demand that 100,000 be deposited to guarantee their costs"
synonyms: underwrite, sponsor, support, back, insure, indemnify, vouch for, put up collateral for, give earnest money for, provide surety for, provide (financial) security for; More
informalbe ready to pick up the tab for;
informalbankroll
"they have to guarantee the loan with their own personal assets"
2.
promise with certainty.
"no one can guarantee a profit on stocks and shares"
synonyms: promise, swear, swear to the fact, pledge, vow, undertake, give one's word, give an assurance, give assurances, give an undertaking, give a pledge, swear an oath, take an oath, cross one's heart (and hope to die); More
archaicplight
"can you guarantee that he wasn't involved?"

Origin
late 17th century (in the sense 'guarantor'): perhaps from Spanish garante, corresponding to French garant (see warrant), later influenced by French garantie 'guaranty'.
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I KNOW silver and gold can be considered insurance. Apparently highly creditable people also agree with this point of view. Even MSM agrees!

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0...st-eagle-mutual-funds-calamity-insurance.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...e-gold-remains-the-best-insurance-policy.html

The big thing you are still stuck on is the word Guarantee, well as I've said it's not absolute and there are risks with insurance and guarantees.

Silver and gold can indeed act as protection for loss in a financial calamity by becoming revalued as the main form of value, whilst fiat currency might return to its intrinsic nature. I've clearly defined what an investment is. I would say with strong evidence that gold and silver are ANTI-INVESTMENTS.

Gold and silver represent a form of wealth without counter party risk. It is the payment itself as opposed to fiat with is a pledge by someone else to pay more unbacked promises of someone else. Gold and silver are the ultimate form of payment and insurance against this wicked system. It certainly has risks and is not perfect by any means. But they have remained the ultimate form of money and protection against fiat collapse. I happily stand on the premise of gold and silver as the ULTIMATE form of insurance that will withstand a currency reset. I think SOROS was right gold is the ultimate bubble.

Meaning we have not seen the end yet, Ultimate as in at the very end of this system if there is one. That there is an insurance policy on sale right now.

Defintion said:
ultimate
ltmt/
adjective
adjective: ultimate

1.
being or happening at the end of a process; final.
"their ultimate aim was to force his resignation"
synonyms: eventual, last, final, concluding, conclusive, terminal, end, endmost, furthest; More
resulting, ensuing, consequent, subsequent
"the decline and ultimate collapse of the Empire"
antonyms: immediate
basic or fundamental.
"the ultimate constituents of anything that exists are atoms"
synonyms: fundamental, basic, primary, prime, elementary, elemental, absolute, actual, definitive, central, key, crucial, vital, essential, pivotal More
"ultimate truths about human civilization"
antonyms: peripheral
Physics
denoting the maximum possible strength or resistance beyond which an object breaks.
2.
being the best or most extreme example of its kind.
"the ultimate accolade"
synonyms: best, ideal, greatest, supreme, paramount, superlative, highest, unsurpassed, unrivalled, topmost, utmost, optimum, quintessential; More
rareapogean
"the ultimate gift for cat lovers"
antonyms: worst

noun
noun: ultimate; noun: the ultimate; plural noun: ultimates

1.
the best achievable or imaginable of its kind.
"the ultimate in decorative luxury"
synonyms: utmost, optimum, last word, very limit, height, epitome, peak, pinnacle, acme, apex, apogee, zenith, culmination, perfection, nonpareil, extreme, extremity; More
crme de la crme, dernier cri, beau idal;
ne plus ultra;
informalthe best thing since sliced bread, the bee's knees, the cat's pyjamas/whiskers;
archaicnonesuch
"a studio apartment offering the ultimate in luxury living"
2.
a final or fundamental fact or principle.
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I think you are pontificating in respect of your own circumstances.

I buy silver to maybe use down the track. I don't care if I make a loss. I am currently buying the coins of my choice at a slight premium. Silver is there should it be required in the future. I expect to work until I drop so I may never cash in my silver. How can it be an investment?
 
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