Does anyone out there insure their PMs?

[bungo]

It's 3 years ago this week that my house got broken into - they didn't get away with much, mostly jewellery and some spare cash. Not great, but a big wake-up call to fix my house's security.

Since then I've started stacking, and a while back I realised that my stack wouldn't be covered unless I specified it all on my Home Contents policy. So about 6 months ago I sent my insurer a list of all my coins. Some poor data operator there had to list all the details on their system (my insurance documents now run to about 8 pages...) the good news was that it didn't increase my premium in any way, and (god forbid) if it all gets nicked I'm covered - without specifying the PMs on the policy, the most the insurer would pay out was $1000 for cash, gold and silver combined.

I'm curious - do any other Silver Stackers members insure their PMs?

The only downside I can see is that people working at the insurance company can see what my stack consists of, which I'm not 100% comfortable with in case there are any blabbermouths who work there, but in my opinion the benefits far outweigh the potential downside.

What say you?

 

[Dynoman]

I agree it's definitely a concern, my stack is "safe" however it's not insured as a separate entity as you have done. I will have to look at this ASAP. With all the natural disasters lately it really got me thinking about how I would evacuate the stack. So the really valuable numi stuff is in a very strong waterproof case. The thought of me clinging onto the case in the midst of a natural disaster is a concern to me. Kinda brings the value of life into cold perspective.

 

[Dan]

be careful if you think your your bullion is covered under your contents policy. most domestic insurers have a clause that excludes payouts for bullion specifically, most of the customer service people that you talk to are not aware of it so it pays to check the fine print yourself on your policy.

 

[Terry88]

For the Self Managed Super Fund the insurance is a requirement for Auditing purposes. So, Yes I do insure the PMS.

 

[Clawhammer]

The only downside I can see is that people working at the insurance company can see what my stack consists of, which I'm not 100% comfortable with in case there are any blabbermouths who work there, but in my opinion the benefits far outweigh the potential downside.

What say you?

Spot on about the blabbermouths!

What say I ?... Not a huge fan of insurance (like paid for off-site storage) as it cuts into my profits. I'd rather them not get my PM's at all rather than claim on insurance after they're gone. Insurance may give you a warm feeling of security, but there's nothing like having real security when you walk out the door knowing your place is a castle-keep. I say get your self a lockbox or a safe, look on youtube for some novel ways of hiding things around the house and spread your stack around the house.

Safes and safety is all about TIME. No lock or safe is uncrackable that's why they're rated on how long it takes for a (ex)locksmith (now a crook) to pick it without a key/combination. Crooks only have a limited amount of time to work...the longer you keep them looking 'working', the less they'll make off with what's not theirs.

 

[Clawhammer]

I agree it's definitely a concern, my stack is "safe" however it's not insured as a separate entity as you have done. I will have to look at this ASAP. With all the natural disasters lately it really got me thinking about how I would evacuate the stack. So the really valuable numi stuff is in a very strong waterproof case. The thought of me clinging onto the case in the midst of a natural disaster is a concern to me. Kinda brings the value of life into cold perspective.

It's healthy to be vigilant, But really how soon do these things (natural disasters) come on to people? In the current Brisbane Floods we had 2-3 days warning (yet still people did nothing). And even then, unless you're in a mudslide, flood waters won't take a safe...neither will a bushfire...often they're all that's left in the slab. We now even get tsunami warnings of at least 8 hours!? If there's an earthquake, your stuff will be more than safe under a few tonnes of rubble to be easily retrieved with an excavator (providing it's in a strong safe/lock-box).

Based on this you have to ask yourself, what are you insuring against? For the most part, insurance is covering the complacent and unprepared. A little common sense (and I use the term advisedly) goes a long way. I reckon most people could replace the whitegoods and furnishings of their contents insurance within their Credit Card limit. And I'd bet that other than theft most household contents claims are caused by stupid people flooding or burning down their own properties or leaving the front door unlocked. And as for theft, what thief is going to steal a fridge, washing machine, huge flatscreen TV or furniture these days ? If it aint mobile like a car, laptop, jewelrey or what they're really after, CASH, they're just not interested.

So what can you do to protect your stash, make you actually safe (not just FEEL safe) and save you from needless insurance premiums and claims?;

*Don't build/live on the beach or live in a flood prone area. NO EXCUSES (about cost or lifestyle whatever)...JUST DON"T DO IT !
*Don't live in a house on a steep slope where the land can slip in heavy rain or mud can pour into your house when it rains.
*If you're in the bush, keep a couple of dogs as a frontline deterrent, keep the scrub away from the house, keep alert to your surroundings, have a fire contingency fight or escape plan.
*If you're in the city, don't choose to live in a building that has heaps of floor-to-ceiling glass windows or louvers or any easy way into the home. (You may even choose to get a back-2-base security system as well as a safe and hiding your stash))
*Don't choose to live in a high crime area...if you have to, sell your house and rent in a better area... it just ain't worth the grey hairs.
*Don't tell people what you have.
*Pay attention to what you're doing, switch off the gas stove/iron/bath-taps, don't forget to lock the door/close the garage when you leave for work etc.
*put up a no-junk-mail sign and get your mail collected when you're away... nothing telegraphs you're away better than a pile of old mail spilling out of your letterbox. And buy a cheap $5 timer from bunnings to put a lamp on inside the house to make it look like someone's there when you're not.
*If there's a cyclone/bushfire/flood/zombie plauge being reported get your stuff together....don't sit there watching it unfold on the news until it's too late.

 

[Dwayne]

Actually, we got broken into last year - basically because they wanted our tv. I have no idea why though, it wasn't even all that expensive. Totally agree with the rest though, and it has made me more paranoid about security that's for sure.

 

[2ds]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, most BNE is with a shopping list, what will go is all your easy to shift stuff. Basically laptops and jewelery, probably already sold beofre they were stolen.

Bulky things like TV's or desktop computers probably wont be snatched becaue the crooks have to lug them around .

I'm sure most of the junkies who are likely to break into your house would just ignore a safe as it would be too hard a target.

If you get specifically targeted by someone who knows what you have and is after it, you could be in a large amount of trouble.

 

[Randomz]

I know people that have had new-ish TV's stolen, in one case they walked right past 2 notebook computers just inside the door.

Put the TV in the back of a van or wagon, and instant money at the local pub most likely.

 

[bungo]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, most BNE is with a shopping list, what will go is all your easy to shift stuff. Basically laptops and jewelery, probably already sold beofre they were stolen.

Bulky things like TV's or desktop computers probably wont be snatched becaue the crooks have to lug them around .

I'm sure most of the junkies who are likely to break into your house would just ignore a safe as it would be too hard a target.

If you get specifically targeted by someone who knows what you have and is after it, you could be in a large amount of trouble.

Yeah, that was precisely my experience. Left the appliances, just took cash, jewellery, digital camera. Nothing too hard to fence.

Based on this you have to ask yourself, what are you insuring against? For the most part, insurance is covering the complacent and unprepared. A little common sense (and I use the term advisedly) goes a long way. I reckon most people could replace the whitegoods and furnishings of their contents insurance within their Credit Card limit. And I'd bet that other than theft most household contents claims are caused by stupid people flooding or burning down their own properties or leaving the front door unlocked. And as for theft, what thief is going to steal a fridge, washing machine, huge flatscreen TV or furniture these days ? If it aint mobile like a car, laptop, jewelrey or what they're really after, CASH, they're just not interested.

I'm really only worried about theft. If my house burns down or gets washed away in a flood, loosing my tiny PMs collection is going to be the least of my worries that day!

 

[2ds]

I know people that have had new-ish TV's stolen, in one case they walked right past 2 notebook computers just inside the door.

Put the TV in the back of a van or wagon, and instant money at the local pub most likely.

They would have already had someone asking them for a TV, they didn't have a laptop on the shopping list so they didn't take them, the tv would have gone straight to the buyer so they couldn't get caught with stolen goods.

 

[Willow]

For the Self Managed Super Fund the insurance is a requirement for Auditing purposes. So, Yes I do insure the PMS.

Terry, what makes you say you need insurance for auditing for SMSF?

 

[Dan]

For the Self Managed Super Fund the insurance is a requirement for Auditing purposes. So, Yes I do insure the PMS.

Terry, what makes you say you need insurance for auditing for SMSF?

You as the director of the company (your SMSF) have a responsibility to safeguard your members assets, if your items were stolen and it was seen to be neglect you can be jailed under the corporations act.

 

[Big A.D.]

I'm really only worried about theft. If my house burns down or gets washed away in a flood, loosing my tiny PMs collection is going to be the least of my worries that day!

Look into getting a "cash rated" safe.

(a) They're big, imposing and most burglars will skip them in favour of something that they can carry easily.

(b) A safe with a rating of $20,000 that is cracked/stolen will get you an insurance payout of $20,000 regardless of what was in it - your insurance premiums are calculated based on them giving you $20,000 so that's what they give you.

Whether you're over-insured or under-insured depends on what you put in the safe, but it does mean you don't have to give itemised lists to your insurance company. Obviously talk to your insurer about this first (hey, talk to a couple and get the best deal you can) but a cash rated safe is certainly an option if you're mainly worried about theft and privacy.

 

[Dan]

I'm really only worried about theft. If my house burns down or gets washed away in a flood, loosing my tiny PMs collection is going to be the least of my worries that day!

Look into getting a "cash rated" safe.

(a) They're big, imposing and most burglars will skip them in favour of something that they can carry easily.

(b) A safe with a rating of $20,000 that is cracked/stolen will get you an insurance payout of $20,000 regardless of what was in it - your insurance premiums are calculated based on them giving you $20,000 so that's what they give you.

Whether you're over-insured or under-insured depends on what you put in the safe, but it does mean you don't have to give itemised lists to your insurance company. Obviously talk to your insurer about this first (hey, talk to a couple and get the best deal you can) but a cash rated safe is certainly an option if you're mainly worried about theft and privacy.

What about if you get confronted by the burglar and forced to open the safe? are you still covered?

 

[Big A.D.]

What about if you get confronted by the burglar and forced to open the safe? are you still covered?

You'd have to ask the insurance company.

You'd also have to ask your locksmith/security consultant as well since being held up rather than just burgled is an issue (which can be partially solved by time-delay digital locks, physical key + pinpad systems, camouflaged safes, etc.)

Whatever precautions you take will depend on what threats you're most worried about.

 

[Dan]

What about if you get confronted by the burglar and forced to open the safe? are you still covered?

You'd have to ask the insurance company.

You'd also have to ask your locksmith/security consultant as well since being held up rather than just burgled is an issue (which can be partially solved by time-delay digital locks, physical key + pinpad systems, camouflaged safes, etc.)

Whatever precautions you take will depend on what threats you're most worried about.

Got anything for protecting against the biggest burg of them all, aka ' the taxman '?

 

[Dynoman]

I agree it's definitely a concern, my stack is "safe" however it's not insured as a separate entity as you have done. I will have to look at this ASAP. With all the natural disasters lately it really got me thinking about how I would evacuate the stack. So the really valuable numi stuff is in a very strong waterproof case. The thought of me clinging onto the case in the midst of a natural disaster is a concern to me. Kinda brings the value of life into cold perspective.

It's healthy to be vigilant, But really how soon do these things (natural disasters) come on to people? In the current Brisbane Floods we had 2-3 days warning (yet still people did nothing). And even then, unless you're in a mudslide, flood waters won't take a safe...neither will a bushfire...often they're all that's left in the slab. We now even get tsunami warnings of at least 8 hours!? If there's an earthquake, your stuff will be more than safe under a few tonnes of rubble to be easily retrieved with an excavator (providing it's in a strong safe/lock-box).

Based on this you have to ask yourself, what are you insuring against? For the most part, insurance is covering the complacent and unprepared. A little common sense (and I use the term advisedly) goes a long way. I reckon most people could replace the whitegoods and furnishings of their contents insurance within their Credit Card limit. And I'd bet that other than theft most household contents claims are caused by stupid people flooding or burning down their own properties or leaving the front door unlocked. And as for theft, what thief is going to steal a fridge, washing machine, huge flatscreen TV or furniture these days ? If it aint mobile like a car, laptop, jewelrey or what they're really after, CASH, they're just not interested.

So what can you do to protect your stash, make you actually safe (not just FEEL safe) and save you from needless insurance premiums and claims?;

*Don't build/live on the beach or live in a flood prone area. NO EXCUSES (about cost or lifestyle whatever)...JUST DON"T DO IT !
*Don't live in a house on a steep slope where the land can slip in heavy rain or mud can pour into your house when it rains.
*If you're in the bush, keep a couple of dogs as a frontline deterrent, keep the scrub away from the house, keep alert to your surroundings, have a fire contingency fight or escape plan.
*If you're in the city, don't choose to live in a building that has heaps of floor-to-ceiling glass windows or louvers or any easy way into the home. (You may even choose to get a back-2-base security system as well as a safe and hiding your stash))
*Don't choose to live in a high crime area...if you have to, sell your house and rent in a better area... it just ain't worth the grey hairs.



*Don't tell people what you have.
*Pay attention to what you're doing, switch off the gas stove/iron/bath-taps, don't forget to lock the door/close the garage when you leave for work etc.
*put up a no-junk-mail sign and get your mail collected when you're away... nothing telegraphs you're away better than a pile of old mail spilling out of your letterbox. And buy a cheap $5 timer from bunnings to put a lamp on inside the house to make it look like someone's there when you're not.
*If there's a cyclone/bushfire/flood/zombie plauge being reported get your stuff together....don't sit there watching it unfold on the news until it's too late.

Thanx Dan & Claw. I can assume by you answer Claw that your place is built like Fort Knox. So I won't come knocking anytime soon. One of my buddy's was living in New York for a while & he was a professional minder for a Jewish Millionaire. He told me it's a real sport between the super rich Jews to steal treasure from each other. They contract pro's to break into their houses. EG: I steal your Rembrandt. You steal my Picasso etc. It goes for your PM stack as well. I don't know how they sort out who owns what after-wards. But it sounded like fun to me. All robbers no Cops!

 

[personhead]

I'm really only worried about theft. If my house burns down or gets washed away in a flood, loosing my tiny PMs collection is going to be the least of my worries that day!

Look into getting a "cash rated" safe.

(a) They're big, imposing and most burglars will skip them in favour of something that they can carry easily.

(b) A safe with a rating of $20,000 that is cracked/stolen will get you an insurance payout of $20,000 regardless of what was in it - your insurance premiums are calculated based on them giving you $20,000 so that's what they give you.

Whether you're over-insured or under-insured depends on what you put in the safe, but it does mean you don't have to give itemised lists to your insurance company. Obviously talk to your insurer about this first (hey, talk to a couple and get the best deal you can) but a cash rated safe is certainly an option if you're mainly worried about theft and privacy.

What about if you get confronted by the burglar and forced to open the safe? are you still covered?

get a small cheap safe and keep an adequate amount of valuables suitable to your area and hide the big safe

 

[Austacker]

get a small cheap safe and keep an adequate amount of valuables suitable to your area and hide the big safe

Big safes are a little hard to hide ?