Design for 2015 panda released

barsenault said:
andrewlee10 said:
1 oz 2014 silver panda price dropping in china market since the announcement if 2015 panda design.

I am awaiting the market reaction to the 5 oz and kg for the 2014
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You would think it would go up, not down. Why do you suppose the price is going down in light of the 2015? The 2015 image more popular? Perhaps they don't agree with dccpa??? :D
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Or they agree with me and are running from Pandas as fast as they can. :cool:

Edit: bullionexpress brings up an interesting issue. Can you avoid the import tax on coins that don't have fineness stamped on them?
 
^ yea agreed, seems like they were lazy and just mirror flipped the image from last yr.
They need a new designer. heck even I could come up with better scenarios:

one panda on a tree and another looking up in wonder how the first panda got up there lol
 
No fineness minted on the coins means GST is applicable in Australia. No weight is borderline for GST or no GST, but the lack of a fineness sinks it.

Basically these will be even dearer in Australia than ever.
 
dccpa said:
barsenault said:
andrewlee10 said:
1 oz 2014 silver panda price dropping in china market since the announcement if 2015 panda design.

I am awaiting the market reaction to the 5 oz and kg for the 2014
Click to expand...

You would think it would go up, not down. Why do you suppose the price is going down in light of the 2015? The 2015 image more popular? Perhaps they don't agree with dccpa??? :D
Click to expand...

Or they agree with me and are running from Pandas as fast as they can. :cool:

Edit: bullionexpress brings up an interesting issue. Can you avoid the import tax on coins that don't have fineness stamped on them?
Click to expand...


In my opinion, the price drop is not because of announcement of panda 2015 design. Before discussing why the price drop, we should find out why the price shot up in the first place. However, it is not the case here. More likely, the price of 5oz and 1kg would be maintained at current price level meanwhile 5oz and 1kg panda 2015 issued at higher price than 2014. It is quite common for china dealers to sell new release items at high than recommended selling price. No matter 2015 image more popular or not, in the long run, the price of 1oz 2014 will, more likely, be higher than 2015. as if 2012 higher than 2013, 2013 higher than 2014, considered that they have same mintage of 8 million.

Hope that panda 2015 look much better in actual coin:)
 
Isn't there any way for us to prove that it's .99999 silver?
like we know what it is composed of.. we can provide or show the mint website.. mintage and content. I don;t see why it HAS to be printed/ stamped on the piece...
am I missing something here? no pun intended
 
I don't know that I like it not being hallmarked. In general that is a problem for any issue today that is not Hallmarked. That may even more so be the case for a Chinese coin. The lack of the hallmark is all fine for those of us in the know and numismatic collectors. However, I can see a time 10 years from now when one is trying to sell these and the lack of a hallmark on a Chinese coin could be a problem. With that said it could make them even more desirable in some circles.
 
2012 and older Britannia coins were marked with weight, but not fineness. I'd imagine that the pandas won't be any harder than those to get into Australia.

Also, if full sealed boxes of Pandas are marked, that may help for the dealers that are importing them for re-sale.

Large import orders are done through customs brokers and most of the time the packages aren't opened to look at the actual contents anyway.
 
It's not about sneaking them into the country tax-free - it's about being able to sell them here. For a silver coin to be considered "an investment form" for GST purposes, the kicker is:

bears a mark or characteristic accepted as identifying and guaranteeing its fineness and quality
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A mark or characteristic would be satisfied by the fineness being part of the coin design - without the fineness stamped on the coin, there is nothing identifying the fineness. Having 999 is a must-have for avoiding GST on the sale of these coins.

.958 Britannias are subject to GST in Australia, because they did not meet the minimum 999 finess requirement for silver.

(GSTR 2003/10 paraphrased)
To summarise the above, for gold, silver or platinum to be in an investment form for the purposes of the GST Act, it must be in a form that:
is capable of being traded on the international bullion market, that is, it must be a bar, wafer or coin;
bears a mark or characteristic accepted as identifying and guaranteeing its fineness and quality; and
is usually traded at a price that is determined by reference to the spot price of the metal it contains.

(Section 38-385 of the GST Act paraphrased)
As defined under section 195-1 of the GST Act, precious metal means:
(a) gold (in an investment form) of at least 99.5% fineness; or
(b) silver (in an investment form) of at least 99.9% fineness; or
(c) platinum (in an investment form) of at least 99% fineness; or
(d) any other substance (in an investment form) specified in the regulations of a particular fineness specified in the regulations of at least 99.5% fineness.
No regulations have been made to specify any other substance.
To be precious metal for the purposes of GST, the metal must therefore be gold, silver or platinum.
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So it meets the fineness specification, but does not meet the mark or characteristic test - no fineness is identified, and one could argue that the lack of a weight identification means the quality is not guaranteed - if these coins are going to be "metric" (to be confirmed), say they release a 30 gram coin instead of 1oz, an uneducated or unscrupulous seller could advertise them as 1oz, and there is no mark guaranteeing this.

A private ruling could be sought to get an official answer from the ATO.
 
"bears a mark or characteristic accepted as identifying and guaranteeing its fineness and quality"
Couldn't you argue that the denomination of the coin and the design itself is a characteristic mark? I accept it as identifying and guaranteeing its fineness and quality as much as if they stamped 1oz .999999 PURE SILVER, and surely the millions of buyers for the coin that there will be without any 1oz .999 silver stated on the coin, regardless of if they were to pay GST on it, are also proof that they are accepting this mark as a guarantee that it will be 1oz of silver.
 
Unless they utilize some form of laser-etching technology...

But that would make it too difficult for the counterfeiters. :P
 
Would it be possiable to engrave or stamp the metal, fineness and weight in same location as 2014 on these new 2015 pandas? I.e done by a third party.

If this was done well would it reduce or increase its value. Also would this fix the gst issue as well.
 
bullionexpress said:
Would it be possiable to engrave or stamp the metal, fineness and weight in same location as 2014 on these new 2015 pandas? I.e done by a third party.

If this was done well would it reduce or increase its value. Also would this fix the gst issue as well.
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... you can always use a Sharpie and write those on the panda's forehead. :lol: :lol:
 
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