Crypto Superannuation

ParanoidAndroid said:
I'm pretty sure once you've purchased your Bitcoin you don't need to leave it on that place of no physical address. Just lock it away in cold storage.

At least that's what I would presume.
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How do you past audit requirements?

The Esuperfund Auditors have tightened up the audit process. They demanded I produce a holding statement for other physical assets.

How exactly do you prove you still have the BTC under a cold wallet, of course you will never provide the private key to the wallet. So not one can independently audit it unless you transfer it back to the exchange and get them to produce a holding statement.
 
Show them a paper copy/screenshot of the chain showing the amount of your purchase arriving at your address.

They can find out themselves if it's still there easily enough. They might even learn something.

If an Auditor doesn't understand what an open distributed ledger is... Well you have a chance to make him look really stupid. And probably piss him off.

And he should go back to auditor school.
 
ParanoidAndroid said:
Show them a paper copy/screenshot of the chain showing the amount of your purchase arriving at your address.

They can find out themselves if it's still there easily enough. They might even learn something.

If an Auditor doesn't understand what an open distributed ledger is... Well you have a chance to make him look really stupid. And probably piss him off.

And he should go back to auditor school.
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This ain't gonna cut it, they still cannot establish you are the owner of the private key. Its transferred to an "Address", so what, it hasn't moved since. Doesn't mean you own the address. It could be your mothers wallet, could be someone elses.

Just saying. Some auditors can be anal over the technicals. Those that want to buy cryptos with Super. Better clear it off with the auditors in terms of their audit process before going ahead.
 
That's the problem with eSuperfund, they don't engage in any correspondence as their auditing is done offsite as far as I know, India I think. Sending emails is a fruitless process as would be phoning them - they just won't budge from their position.

Our auditor is also anal, she wanted an API key so she could download the transactions. I explained that as they were in cold storage and held by a third-party on behalf of our SMSF that she wasn't going to get what she wanted. Luckily the third party could supply a holding statement. In the past when we've had auditing issues we've told them that they can't get what they want (they wanted an audit of our bullion, I told them that I'm not flying to Bris and spending over $1000 in flights, accommodation and an independent audit just to satisfy them) they go ahead and submit the return to the ATO with a BIG FAT NOTE saying that they couldn't verify everything so they won't be held responsible for the accuracy of the return. Which is what happens anyway when they submit the returns. o_O

The ATO didn't care. Work that out.

Best off not even going down the eSuperfund path in the first place, or changing accountants.
 
mmm....shiney! said:
That's the problem with eSuperfund, they don't engage in any correspondence as their auditing is done offsite as far as I know, India I think. Sending emails is a fruitless process as would be phoning them - they just won't budge from their position.

Our auditor is also anal, she wanted an API key so she could download the transactions. I explained that as they were in cold storage and held by a third-party on behalf of our SMSF that she wasn't going to get what she wanted. Luckily the third party could supply a holding statement. In the past when we've had auditing issues we've told them that they can't get what they want (they wanted an audit of our bullion, I told them that I'm not flying to Bris and spending over $1000 in flights, accommodation and an independent audit just to satisfy them) they go ahead and submit the return to the ATO with a BIG FAT NOTE saying that they couldn't verify everything so they won't be held responsible for the accuracy of the return. Which is what happens anyway when they submit the returns. o_O

The ATO didn't care. Work that out.

Best off not even going down the eSuperfund path in the first place, or changing accountants.
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I know, I just had fun with esuperfund. I actually had qualifications on my return for a year. I addressed it this year, by getting an indepedent sighting done and an holding statement produced. This made the auditor reissue a statement that my fund is complying. We then resubmitted the tax return without qualifications. My brother being a CA said that you don't really want your tax return to have a qualification on it. The ATO will be onto you at some point when they catch up.

Hence if your buying cryptos and your with esuper, your gonna have fun with these auditors.

We sucked it up because it was cheap, including the audit and tax return it was 999 for esuperfund, my brother being a CA says your not going to get it cheaper else where. The holding statement was 40 bucks. We just treat it as an expense.
 
Slam said:
This ain't gonna cut it, they still cannot establish you are the owner of the private key. Its transferred to an "Address", so what, it hasn't moved since. Doesn't mean you own the address. It could be your mothers wallet, could be someone elses.

Just saying. Some auditors can be anal over the technicals. Those that want to buy cryptos with Super. Better clear it off with the auditors in terms of their audit process before going ahead.
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You could keep it on an exchange in your name, say BTC Markets.net and make them sign a waiver stating that storage method isn't safe and should the exchange get hacked they be held liable for the value as they insisted on being able to prove you owned it and the copy of transfer and address wasn't enough.

To be read with a dash if irony.
 
ParanoidAndroid said:
You could keep it on an exchange in your name, say BTC Markets.net and make them sign a waiver stating that storage method isn't safe and should the exchange get hacked they be help liable for the value as they insisted on being able to prove you owned it and the copy of transfer and address wasn't enough.

To be read with a dash if irony.
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Yes technically you can do that, but annoy esuperfund and the auditors enough. They will cut you off. Your own your own, then your up s-creek without a paddle.

As I have said my brother is an chartered accountant and does this for a living. He said to run a SMSF with proper audits, it costs $4k a year. Esuper is providing a service for 1k (up to 4 members). This is dirt cheap, your probably not going to get another SMSF elsewhere for this money unless your an accountant yourself.

Anyway I'm just putting it out there, if there is anyone that knows how to buy cryptos and not have it held in an exchange as well as satisfy independent holding audit requirements without it being compromised. I'd like to know. I personally couldn't think of any, hence thats why I didn't buy cryptos with SMSF.
 
There is another benefit to using Ainslie - you can write a couple of minutes in your eSuper account that basically say you want to hold PMs, that you aren't interested in collectables and have no intention of going Scrooge McDuck; then open a Bullion Storage account in your Super's name, which you can kick off with a 10k purchase of unallocated Gold or Silver. This is kept as a big pile in their hands (which may not make you happy, but saves on storage (free) and insurance), you get a certificate every year for eSuper, and you can switch funds between PMs, Crypto and cash very easily. When you want to draw down you can pay a barring fee and take it in coins or bars if you want to fill your bathtub.
 
Slam said:
This ain't gonna cut it, they still cannot establish you are the owner of the private key. Its transferred to an "Address", so what, it hasn't moved since. Doesn't mean you own the address. It could be your mothers wallet, could be someone elses.

Just saying. Some auditors can be anal over the technicals. Those that want to buy cryptos with Super. Better clear it off with the auditors in terms of their audit process before going ahead.
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You could cryptographically sign a message with the same holding address. Something like "I, Joe Bloggs, as trustee for the Joe Bloggs SMSF, certify that I hold the private keys to the crypto assets held at {corresponding public address}". That's more proof than an auditor would generally get. Impossible to forge, unlike a holding statement. It's been a while since I played with it, but I think some of the hardware wallets can do this. It would rely on the auditor knowing how to check the cryptographic signature though.
 
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