Counterfeit Tungsten Coins now about

JulieW

JulieW

Well-Known Member
Silver Stacker
I said a rude word when I saw this;

I have recently obtained 3 tungsten based counterfeit gold coins, a Krugerrand, an American Eagle and a Maple Leaf. All are 1oz. Previously, the tungsten fakes were poor imitations of the real thing, these are the best I have seen.

When examined side by side, the different color and lack of details is noticeable but they are a real threat to the unaware and careless. The Krugerrand and the American Eagle are the correct weight and size; the Maple Leafs diameter is too big. It does not pass through the slot of the Fisch. It is also slightly out of round but only apparent from careful measuring.

RdlJztu.jpg

Source: http://thefisch.com/shownews/id/1411222857

For some time now, we have been working a simple method of detecting these fakes as an addition to the checks done by the Fisch. Called The Ringer, the new tool rings the coin. A 916 fine gold coin has a long distinct ring when struck; 999 fine gold a less distinct ring but a tungsten fake only produces a dull thud.

While the major concern is tungsten fakes gold coins, the Ringer can also be used to detect common metal silver fake coins. The Ringer must be used in conjunction with the Fisch for optimum protection from all fakes.

These fakes appear to be coming from one source in China and the dates are repeated on the fakes. So be wary of coins of these years:

2003 & 2005 American Eagle 1oz gold

1984 Krugerrand 1oz gold

2013 Maple Leaf 1oz gold

2004 Maple Leaf 1oz gold " Oversize diameter and therefore detected by the Fisch

2011 American Eagle 1oz silver - Too thick and therefore detected by the Fisch

2011 Maple Leaf 1oz silver - Too thick and therefore detected by the Fisch

2001 American Eagle 1oz gold

1978 Krugerrand 1oz

Royal Canadian Mint 1oz bar - Number 308201

1986 American Eagle 1oz silver

The price of the Ringer when ordered with any Wallet and for Fisch Family members (customers who have the Fisch already) is $39. This is $50 off the regular price of $89 for the Ringer when ordered on its own. All plus shipping. And sales tax in California.

The Ringer is supplied with a full set of instructions for the Gold and Silver Fisch (reworked) and the Ringer. Also included is a holder for the Ringer that fits within the rings of the holder. Plus Travel Pouch instructions and Contents insert, too. If the Ringer is bought with the Fisch, a 3-ring holder will be included if needed.

The instructions are improved. They are matte laminated to make them more durable, especially where they get chafed at the holes for the rings. At the suggestion of a user, I have increased the size of the holes as well.

It is a complete upgrade of your counterfeit protection system for ALL common metal and tungsten fakes.

http://thefisch.com/shownews/id/1411222857
Click to expand...
 
I thought there is no other metal as dense as gold therefore the fake coin is either under/over weight or the size does not match....
 
dragafem said:
I thought there is no other metal as dense as gold therefore the fake coin is either under/over weight or the size does not match....
Click to expand...

Tungstens specific gravity is so close to gold that bars have been bored out then filled with tungsten.
It's the one metal that will produce the closest results to being real as far as specif gravity testing goes.
 
XRF should catch these - they would have to be plated, which means they would momentarily test as .9999 AU, before probably dropping to .02 AU and .98 W as the test runs - generally 10 seconds or longer gives the best read. Most gold plating is 24K.

Either way they wouldn't be able to apply a thick enough gold plating to fool XRF without a loss of minted detail from the underlying tungsten base coin.

Still waiting to see one of these coins cut in half to reveal an authenticated tungsten interior. Tungsten would be an incredibly difficult metal to work with in terms of minting a fake tungsten coin for gold plating.

Still of the opinion that gold plated tungsten coins are an internet beat-up, promulgated by one Chinese website offering to deliver them. Yet to see definitive proof of one. That photo on the Fisch website shows a fake coin - without cutting it or XRF testing it, how do they know it is tungsten and not some other regular base metal? Also - the information source has a conflict of interest in that they are selling a new device to test for these.

They would have shown up in Australia by now from the likes of alibaba/eBay like the thousands of fake silver rounds & bars in circulation here.

So far the only confirmed tungsten filled gold counterfeits have been 10oz and 1kg gold bars - the 10oz PAMP gold bars were done by wrapping a featureless, plain old flat tungsten bar in an outer pre-minted gold "wrapper", and the genuine 1kg bar was drilled out and tungsten rods inserted to scavenge maybe 500g of the kilogram - the bar was still half a kilo of gold or thereabouts. Neither involved minting tungsten or creating a tungsten base with any design.
 
JulieW said:
I said a rude word when I saw this;

I have recently obtained 3 tungsten based counterfeit gold coins, a Krugerrand, an American Eagle and a Maple Leaf. All are 1oz. Previously, the tungsten fakes were poor imitations of the real thing, these are the best I have seen.

When examined side by side, the different color and lack of details is noticeable but they are a real threat to the unaware and careless. The Krugerrand and the American Eagle are the correct weight and size; the Maple Leafs diameter is too big. It does not pass through the slot of the Fisch. It is also slightly out of round but only apparent from careful measuring.

http://i.imgur.com/RdlJztu.jpg
Source: http://thefisch.com/shownews/id/1411222857

For some time now, we have been working a simple method of detecting these fakes as an addition to the checks done by the Fisch. Called The Ringer, the new tool rings the coin. A 916 fine gold coin has a long distinct ring when struck; 999 fine gold a less distinct ring but a tungsten fake only produces a dull thud.

While the major concern is tungsten fakes gold coins, the Ringer can also be used to detect common metal silver fake coins. The Ringer must be used in conjunction with the Fisch for optimum protection from all fakes.

These fakes appear to be coming from one source in China and the dates are repeated on the fakes. So be wary of coins of these years:

2003 & 2005 American Eagle 1oz gold

1984 Krugerrand 1oz gold

2013 Maple Leaf 1oz gold

2004 Maple Leaf 1oz gold " Oversize diameter and therefore detected by the Fisch

2011 American Eagle 1oz silver - Too thick and therefore detected by the Fisch

2011 Maple Leaf 1oz silver - Too thick and therefore detected by the Fisch

2001 American Eagle 1oz gold

1978 Krugerrand 1oz

Royal Canadian Mint 1oz bar - Number 308201

1986 American Eagle 1oz silver

The price of the Ringer when ordered with any Wallet and for Fisch Family members (customers who have the Fisch already) is $39. This is $50 off the regular price of $89 for the Ringer when ordered on its own. All plus shipping. And sales tax in California.

The Ringer is supplied with a full set of instructions for the Gold and Silver Fisch (reworked) and the Ringer. Also included is a holder for the Ringer that fits within the rings of the holder. Plus Travel Pouch instructions and Contents insert, too. If the Ringer is bought with the Fisch, a 3-ring holder will be included if needed.

The instructions are improved. They are matte laminated to make them more durable, especially where they get chafed at the holes for the rings. At the suggestion of a user, I have increased the size of the holes as well.

It is a complete upgrade of your counterfeit protection system for ALL common metal and tungsten fakes.

http://thefisch.com/shownews/id/1411222857
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

There is something interesting about fake 1oz maple gold coin. Do fakes have micro "2013" on them and how it looks like?
 
A quick Googling shows the only reference to fake 2013 Gold Maples is... the Fisch website.
 
goldpelican said:
A quick Googling shows the only reference to fake 2013 Gold Maples is... the Fisch website.
Click to expand...

It seems that they simply try to sell their new product this way.
 
When you look at both coins side-by-side, they look similar but not identical. I can see several differences in the two coins. Another reason that I normally only bought current year coins.
 
How convenient that the guys that found these "best" fakes are also SELLING A TOY THAT DETECTS THEM.
If they were not selling the protection i may pay attention, but as it stands they are JUST SELLING THEIR PRODUCT.
A wee bit like a armed gunman trying to sell you a bullet proof vest:)
 
sterling-nz said:
How convenient that the guys that found these "best" fakes are also SELLING A TOY THAT DETECTS THEM.
If they were not selling the protection i may pay attention, but as it stands they are JUST SELLING THEIR PRODUCT.
A wee bit like a armed gunman trying to sell you a bullet proof vest:)
Click to expand...
At least they're not making the fakes and then providing the toy that detects them. :)
 
GoldenEye said:
sterling-nz said:
How convenient that the guys that found these "best" fakes are also SELLING A TOY THAT DETECTS THEM.
If they were not selling the protection i may pay attention, but as it stands they are JUST SELLING THEIR PRODUCT.
A wee bit like a armed gunman trying to sell you a bullet proof vest:)
Click to expand...
At least they're not making the fakes and then providing the toy that detects them. :)
Click to expand...
Or are they?
I take your point though GoldenEye:)
 
hiho said:
btw you cant bore out a gold bar and fill it with molten tugsten
Click to expand...

Correct .. What was happening was that the shysters were drilling 5mm holes through the bars and then hammering a 5mm tungsten rod through the hole. Then they'd recap the ends with gold.
 
Captain Kookaburra said:
hiho said:
btw you cant bore out a gold bar and fill it with molten tugsten
Click to expand...

Correct .. What was happening was that the shysters were drilling 5mm holes through the bars and then hammering a 5mm tungsten rod through the hole. Then they'd recap the ends with gold.
Click to expand...

I believe ultrasonic thickness testers can detect such irregularities in the bar.
 
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