SilverDJ
Well-Known Member
That's because it's not a crime, you can't be convicted for it.
It's just Australia post's terms and conditions, not law. They can simply refuse to send it or to honor the insurance if it goes missing.
coins and bullion are prohibited by Australia Post
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That's because it's not a crime, you can't be convicted for it.
It's just Australia post's terms and conditions, not law. They can simply refuse to send it or to honor the insurance if it goes missing.
"Commercial Samples".
I know of diamond dealers who send small stones using insured registered post, they're usually insured as commercial samples.
If the item is truly MIA, its not like AusPost can prove what was in the missing parcel.
Heck, the Hope Diamond was once delivered as a US Registered Mail parcel.
I know of diamond dealers who send small stones using insured registered post, they're usually insured as commercial samples.
If the item is truly MIA, its not like AusPost can prove what was in the missing parcel.
Heck, the Hope Diamond was once delivered as a US Registered Mail parcel.
I just lost in mail a preloved Daisy Duck which I bought. Yes it wasn’t registered mail, but just to show the reliability of the postal service in Singapore. Anything that is not registered is considered lost by default if the postman thinks it’s something of resale value (anything that can be sold for at least $5) other than used children clothes and documents.
https://m.ebay.com/itm/Disney-Store...mal-Gift-New-/401283422092?_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1
Hmm, what is it is found later lol. I had lost parcel turn up 3 months after I was meant to receive it.
Would that than turn into fraud, if the sender claimed insurance.
Try proving something isn't a "commercial sample" by the standard of evidence required in a courtroom.
I stopped dropping parcels off at the AustPost business hub and began dropping them at a local PO run by a franchisee, where they are scanned into the system before they go to the same business hub. Loss rate this year is zero compared to 3-4 missing per year previously.
the terms & conditions has always been there way before we have this thing call the internet
since the online shopping started (in the early days), the terms & conditions were already there
so this is nothing new
i used to get many rejections from eBay sellers who had no experience in shipping overseas back in 2005
we can not buy bullion online locally until just a few years back
online trading started back in 1996 here locally
internet banking started in 1997...
since the online shopping started (in the early days), the terms & conditions were already there
so this is nothing new
i used to get many rejections from eBay sellers who had no experience in shipping overseas back in 2005
we can not buy bullion online locally until just a few years back
online trading started back in 1996 here locally
internet banking started in 1997...
Anyway, I also tried to find a substitute for Australia Post, to safely post precious metals.
TLDR: I don't think there are any options for posting precious metals without some kind of service prohibition or complete restriction.
Australia Post: https://auspost.com.au/content/dam/...ents/dangerous-and-prohibited-goods-guide.pdf
Already shown to prohibit precious metals in the first post of this thread.
TOLL: https://www.transdirect.com.au/road-freight/warranty-toll-priority/
Items Excluded -
Precious metals and stones, money, bullion, cheques, credit or other card sales vouchers, securities, shares, bonds, deeds, bills of exchange or any document that represents money
MBE: http://www.mbe.com.au/couriers-shipping/prohibited-goods
Bullion, or any precious metals are prohibited.
TNT: https://www.tnt.com/express/en_au/site/support/faq.html
"Are there any items I cannot send through TNT? What type of goods are prohibited?
...- Precious metals, stones or jewellery, watches..."
DHL: http://www.dhl.com.au/en/country_profile/import_guidelines_express.html
Standard DHL Prohibited Commodities. The following commodities are not acceptable for transport by DHL under any circumstances.
Bullion (of any precious metal)
Cash (current legal tender)
Loose precious and semi-precious stones
(edit, adding UPS)
UPS: https://www.ups.com/au/en/help-cent...tions/customs/export-prohibited-articles.page
Prohibited Items, We do not ship the following items:
"Articles of exceptional value (e.g. works of art, antiques, precious stones, gold and silver)"
FEDEX: http://www.fedex.com/us/declared-value/index.html
hmm... not sure yet...
"FedEx® Declared Value Advantage customers may declare a value of up to $100,000 per shipment on specialty items, such as jewelry, gemstones, and precious metals, giving you extra peace of mind for your high-value shipments."
http://www.fedex.com/cm/shippingguide/terms/
18.4 For Shipments containing the following items of extraordinary value the Declared Value for Carriage is also limited and depends on the contents and destination of the Shipment:
- Precious metals, including but not limited to, gold and silver, silver bullion or dust, precipitates or platinum...
When I called FEDEX, they said the limit is USD$1000, so I'm still confused about FEDEX.
Perth Mint uses FEDEX: http://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/Delivery-Options.aspx
But I'm sure that's because they have awesome insurance on all of their stuff...
TLDR: I don't think there are any options for posting precious metals without some kind of service prohibition or complete restriction.
Australia Post: https://auspost.com.au/content/dam/...ents/dangerous-and-prohibited-goods-guide.pdf
Already shown to prohibit precious metals in the first post of this thread.
TOLL: https://www.transdirect.com.au/road-freight/warranty-toll-priority/
Items Excluded -
Precious metals and stones, money, bullion, cheques, credit or other card sales vouchers, securities, shares, bonds, deeds, bills of exchange or any document that represents money
MBE: http://www.mbe.com.au/couriers-shipping/prohibited-goods
Bullion, or any precious metals are prohibited.
TNT: https://www.tnt.com/express/en_au/site/support/faq.html
"Are there any items I cannot send through TNT? What type of goods are prohibited?
...- Precious metals, stones or jewellery, watches..."
DHL: http://www.dhl.com.au/en/country_profile/import_guidelines_express.html
Standard DHL Prohibited Commodities. The following commodities are not acceptable for transport by DHL under any circumstances.
Bullion (of any precious metal)
Cash (current legal tender)
Loose precious and semi-precious stones
(edit, adding UPS)
UPS: https://www.ups.com/au/en/help-cent...tions/customs/export-prohibited-articles.page
Prohibited Items, We do not ship the following items:
"Articles of exceptional value (e.g. works of art, antiques, precious stones, gold and silver)"
FEDEX: http://www.fedex.com/us/declared-value/index.html
hmm... not sure yet...
"FedEx® Declared Value Advantage customers may declare a value of up to $100,000 per shipment on specialty items, such as jewelry, gemstones, and precious metals, giving you extra peace of mind for your high-value shipments."
http://www.fedex.com/cm/shippingguide/terms/
18.4 For Shipments containing the following items of extraordinary value the Declared Value for Carriage is also limited and depends on the contents and destination of the Shipment:
- Precious metals, including but not limited to, gold and silver, silver bullion or dust, precipitates or platinum...
When I called FEDEX, they said the limit is USD$1000, so I'm still confused about FEDEX.
Perth Mint uses FEDEX: http://www.perthmintbullion.com/au/Delivery-Options.aspx
But I'm sure that's because they have awesome insurance on all of their stuff...
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is there any way to tag other silver stacker members?
In particular I'd really like to ask some of the big guys who regularly ship large amounts of precious metals throughout Australia and Internationally.
Some of the guys from GoldStackers and Perth Bullion are here, and others with commercial experience.
Hopefully it's not a trade secret... because i think it would help us all here, and the community as a whole to know how to trade our silver safely.
Well, at least I would be very grateful.
In particular I'd really like to ask some of the big guys who regularly ship large amounts of precious metals throughout Australia and Internationally.
Some of the guys from GoldStackers and Perth Bullion are here, and others with commercial experience.
Hopefully it's not a trade secret... because i think it would help us all here, and the community as a whole to know how to trade our silver safely.
Well, at least I would be very grateful.
ok so i cant believe that there is still the belief that you cannot send coins in the mail, it is simple see below from section 3
"D3.2 –
Banknotes and coins
Banknotes are currency notes that are legal tender in the country of issue.
Australian notes of whatever age, currency or denomination are legal tender
within Australia.
Coins are coinage in either Australian or foreign currency and includes coins
made from precious metals whether or not such coins have a denomination.
Australia Post prohibits banknotes or currency notes and coins in:
•the International Post
•all services within Australia, except Registered Post, or a parcel service in
conjunction with Extra Cover and Signature on Delivery.
In Registered Post or parcel services when used in conjunction with
Extra Cover and Signature on Delivery within Australia, Australia Post
accepts banknotes or coins to a maximum face value of A$200 in any one
consignment. However, Australia Post accepts no liability for the loss of or
damage to any such articles containing banknotes"
What this means is that you must send it via "
Registered Post, or a parcel service in
conjunction with Extra Cover and Signature on Delivery.
"
and that you can only send coins or banknotes with a "
maximum face value of A$200 in any one
consignment
"
A kookaburra is a coin, a 10 oz lunar is a coin etc so
now bullion is a prohibited item but, besides the fact that you can argue that it is actually jewellery making supplies ( a totally acceptable item to post) you need to consider the enforcement side of the rules. now it is prohibited by definition so you cannot claim it off their insurance however if they locate bullion in a package they have not stated what the action they will take under 9.2 actions by Australia post. now if "If Australia Post has grounds for reasonable suspicion that an article contains explosive, dangerous or deleterious goods" then they have right to keep the item, destroy it or hand it to the appropriate authorities (eg police, customs, army etc) but as they have not stipulated the response in the case of a prohibited item being discovered then they don't have authority to do anything other than return or deliver the item as paid for under the contract of agreement you entered into when you paid to post it. Remember is if the legislation doesn't deal with a specific situation then the actions taken by Australia post fall under contract law and that means that any ambiguity in the contract must be considered in favor of the party who did not draft the agreed contract of business.
Will you have a fight on your hand, yes but will you win if you either have a competent lawyer or the ability to handle this yourself in court yes.
We all run this risk when we use Australia post but we are not breaking any law by doing so
"D3.2 –
Banknotes and coins
Banknotes are currency notes that are legal tender in the country of issue.
Australian notes of whatever age, currency or denomination are legal tender
within Australia.
Coins are coinage in either Australian or foreign currency and includes coins
made from precious metals whether or not such coins have a denomination.
Australia Post prohibits banknotes or currency notes and coins in:
•the International Post
•all services within Australia, except Registered Post, or a parcel service in
conjunction with Extra Cover and Signature on Delivery.
In Registered Post or parcel services when used in conjunction with
Extra Cover and Signature on Delivery within Australia, Australia Post
accepts banknotes or coins to a maximum face value of A$200 in any one
consignment. However, Australia Post accepts no liability for the loss of or
damage to any such articles containing banknotes"
What this means is that you must send it via "
Registered Post, or a parcel service in
conjunction with Extra Cover and Signature on Delivery.
"
and that you can only send coins or banknotes with a "
maximum face value of A$200 in any one
consignment
"
A kookaburra is a coin, a 10 oz lunar is a coin etc so
now bullion is a prohibited item but, besides the fact that you can argue that it is actually jewellery making supplies ( a totally acceptable item to post) you need to consider the enforcement side of the rules. now it is prohibited by definition so you cannot claim it off their insurance however if they locate bullion in a package they have not stated what the action they will take under 9.2 actions by Australia post. now if "If Australia Post has grounds for reasonable suspicion that an article contains explosive, dangerous or deleterious goods" then they have right to keep the item, destroy it or hand it to the appropriate authorities (eg police, customs, army etc) but as they have not stipulated the response in the case of a prohibited item being discovered then they don't have authority to do anything other than return or deliver the item as paid for under the contract of agreement you entered into when you paid to post it. Remember is if the legislation doesn't deal with a specific situation then the actions taken by Australia post fall under contract law and that means that any ambiguity in the contract must be considered in favor of the party who did not draft the agreed contract of business.
Will you have a fight on your hand, yes but will you win if you either have a competent lawyer or the ability to handle this yourself in court yes.
We all run this risk when we use Australia post but we are not breaking any law by doing so
yes the issue isn't that you "cannot" or that it's "illegal" to send coins by those shipping/postage services.
The issue is that if they're lost, like my coins are lost, Australia Post will not provide compensation.
And like Australia Post told me: even if tracking is used, even if insurance is paid for. They won't compensate me because the items are prohibited. Not illegal to post, not impossible to post. But prohibited.
Yeah, so my coins are gone. If anyone here uses a shipping service that prohibits bullion, precious metals, coins, money, currency, then they could also suffer the same if their stuff is lost too. I think that would be unfortunate.
And I'm still curious about how the bullion/coin shops manage to ship their stuff overseas without any problems.
I think they have adequate insurance, so a service like Fedex has no problem sending their stock overseas.
The issue is that if they're lost, like my coins are lost, Australia Post will not provide compensation.
And like Australia Post told me: even if tracking is used, even if insurance is paid for. They won't compensate me because the items are prohibited. Not illegal to post, not impossible to post. But prohibited.
Yeah, so my coins are gone. If anyone here uses a shipping service that prohibits bullion, precious metals, coins, money, currency, then they could also suffer the same if their stuff is lost too. I think that would be unfortunate.
And I'm still curious about how the bullion/coin shops manage to ship their stuff overseas without any problems.
I think they have adequate insurance, so a service like Fedex has no problem sending their stock overseas.
that could be an option, thanks for the tip. what is a "rider"?
I was just talking to Fedex support.
They said they can ship gold, silver, coins, bullion etc, as long as the destination country permits it.
So USA, for example, is fine.
But they can only provide insurance up to USD$1000.
More than that, they advise getting "3rd party" insurance.
Can anyone recommend any insurance for gold, silver, bullion, coins etc..?
Maybe I should start a new thread for that...
They said they can ship gold, silver, coins, bullion etc, as long as the destination country permits it.
So USA, for example, is fine.
But they can only provide insurance up to USD$1000.
More than that, they advise getting "3rd party" insurance.
Can anyone recommend any insurance for gold, silver, bullion, coins etc..?
Maybe I should start a new thread for that...
Specialized insurance covers after the basics of public, product liability, stock and contents.
You can insure against almost anything if you pay enough. Ask your insurance broker. Some companies can’t be bothered so you might have to shop around.
ok so I've been on the phone, and NONE of the normal insurance companies offer any insurance for silver, gold, bullion etc.
Budget Direct, Alliance, AAMI, i can't remember who else i called. At the most, some of them offer up to $1000 max for precious items like jewelry, art, etc, as part of home contents insurance. And that doesn't include shipping/posting...
Who do you guys insure your bullion with?
Anyone have an insurance policy that covers your bullion while in transit..?
That's what I would really like to know.
Budget Direct, Alliance, AAMI, i can't remember who else i called. At the most, some of them offer up to $1000 max for precious items like jewelry, art, etc, as part of home contents insurance. And that doesn't include shipping/posting...
Who do you guys insure your bullion with?
Anyone have an insurance policy that covers your bullion while in transit..?
That's what I would really like to know.
Bullion dealers use commercial insurance brokers that sell insurance underwritten by firms like Lloyd’s, and “sendings” insurance is just a small part of the overall policy covering all sorts of risks for the business (fire, theft, holdup, liability etc). There’s no off the shelf “bullion shipping” insurance product out there for retail customers that I know of.