Cognitive biases and the psychological problems of stackers

Gatito Bandito said:
wrcmad said:
Read my sig.... ;) (and I credit it to Tolly_67..... a beautifully crafted phrase)

You don't seem to comprehend the vast extent of it: *Everything* is rigged.. from currencies, to interest rates, to commodities, to the stock/share market, et al.
4088_imagescaot29n4.jpg

Gatito Bandito said:
The question is, then, why are you still playing any of these games, yourself?
I comprehend just fine. But I don't need to "believe" what might be. Instead I use what I know.
I don't subscribe to the self-interest-scare-monger-campaign-sales-tactic rhetoric of the select few self-labelled gurus. I like to make up my own mind.
I am in the game because I play. And when I play well, I make profits.
I own my decisions, and don't need to offload blame.
I take responsibility if price moves against me, and don't feel the need to be always right.
I manage risk accordingly, and protect my capital.
 
Thanks for the candid post SilverPete.

Clearly, from the number of threads that frequently pop up on this forum under the theme of "will silver drop to X USD?", short term spot price is front of mind for many others and casting doubt in the minds of some I'm sure.

As willrocks said, you're letting emotions creep into what should be a rational investment decision.

No need to chide yourself too much though, who hasn't had emotion cloud their decision making at some point? Better to acknowledge it as you have and try think about what action you should take.

Its not really my place to be dishing out advice however fwiw it sounds like you need to re-engage with (but not necessarily "reassess") your stacking philosophy. Why did you get into stacking? Does the recent price action invalidate those reasons? Etc...

Best of luck with it,
ML
 
tolly_67 said:
Well grasshopper, clear your mind of all that you thought you knew and embrace what you cannot believe.
Like the rising and setting of the sun, silver is in a cycle. You are looking for the cause but they are legion. If movement does not make sense then it is your sense that is wrong. It is a difficult thing to come to terms with. The cycle will turn again in its own time.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zh-D4nAMhk[/youtube]
 
MrLeprechaun said:
Thanks for the candid post SilverPete.

Clearly, from the number of threads that frequently pop up on this forum under the theme of "will silver drop to X USD?", short term spot price is front of mind for many others and casting doubt in the minds of some I'm sure.

As willrocks said, you're letting emotions creep into what should be a rational investment decision.

No need to chide yourself too much though, who hasn't had emotion cloud their decision making at some point? Better to acknowledge it as you have and try think about what action you should take.

Its not really my place to be dishing out advice however fwiw it sounds like you need to re-engage with (but not necessarily "reassess") your stacking philosophy. Why did you get into stacking? Does the recent price action invalidate those reasons? Etc...

Best of luck with it,
ML
Thanks.

No matter what, I just keep stacking (usually more as the price drops) although I regularly reevaluate the mix of what I stack. Personally, I think we are all fallible and but we often don't appreciate this.

WRT cognitive biases, I doubt it is possible to eliminate them completely but it helps if we admit we have them and can recognise the influence they have on our decision making and on the types of information we seek out and trust.

This morning I found the below article on cognitive and emotional biases. [I have trimmed out some details, but the original is still fairly short and quick to read]:

Behavioral Bias - Cognitive Vs. Emotional Bias In Investing

Everybody has biases. We make judgments about people, opportunities, Washington policies and, of course, the markets. When we analyze our world without knowing about these biases, we put our observations through a number of filters manufactured by our experiences, and I'm not just talking about stock screeners.

I'm talking about the filters we put our decisions through that sometimes make them biased.

It's impossible to be unbiased in our decision-making. However, we can mitigate those biases by identifying and creating trading and investing rules - but only if we know what to look for. Fortunately, investing biases fall into two categories: cognitive and emotional.

Cognitive Bias
Think of a cognitive bias as a rule of thumb that may or may not be factual.
...
* Confirmation Bias: Have you noticed that you put more weight into the opinions of those who agree with you? Investors do this too. How often have you analyzed a stock and later researched reports that supported your thesis instead of seeking out information that may poke holes in your opinion?

* Gamblers' Fallacy: Let's assume that the S&P has closed to the upside five trading sessions in a row. You place a short trade on the SPDR S&P 500 (ARCA:SPY) because you believe chances are high that the market will drop on the sixth day. While it may happen, on a purely statistical basis, the past events don't connect to future events. There may be other reasons why the sixth day will produce a down market; but by itself, the fact that the market is up five consecutive days is irrelevant.

* Status-Quo Bias: Humans are creatures of habit. Resistance to change spills over to investment portfolios through the act of repeatedly coming back to the same stocks and ETFs instead of researching new ideas. Although investing in companies you understand is a sound investment strategy, having a short list of go-to products might limit your profit potential.

* Negativity Bias: The bull market is alive and well, yet many investors have missed the rally because of the fear that it will reverse course. Negativity bias causes investors to put more weight on bad news than on good. Some might call this risk management, but this bias can cause the effects of risk to hold more weight than the possibility of reward.

* Bandwagon Effect: Warren Buffett became one of the most successful investors in the world by resisting the bandwagon effect. His famous advice to be greedy when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy is a denouncement of this bias. Going back to confirmation bias, investors feel better when they are investing along with the crowd. But as Buffett has proven, an opposite mentality, after exhaustive research, may prove more profitable.


Emotional Bias
You may notice some overlap between cognitive and emotional bias, but think about this: One reason cited by market watchers for disbelief that the current bull market is sustainable is a focus on the past. "I purchased a home in 2007 and got burned. Why would now be any different?" That's an example of an emotional bias. Simply put, it is taking action based on feelings instead of fact.

* Loss-Aversion Bias: Do you have a stock in your portfolio that is down so much that you can't stomach the thought of selling? In reality, if you sold the stock, the money that is left could be reinvested into a higher quality stock. But because you don't want to admit that the loss has gone from a computer screen to real money, you hold on in hopes that you will, one day, make it back to even.

* Overconfidence Bias: "I have an edge that you (and others) do not." A person with overconfidence bias believes that his/her skill as an investor is better than others' skills. Take, for example, the person who works in the pharmaceutical industry. He/she may believe in having the ability to trade within that sector at a higher level than other traders. The market has made fools out of the most respected traders. It can do the same to you.

* Endowment Bias: Similar to loss aversion bias, this is the idea that what we do own is more valuable than what we do not. Remember that losing stock? Others in its sector may show more signs of health, but the investor won't sell because he/she still believes, as before, it's the best in its sector.

More: http://www.investopedia.com/article...ias-cognitive-vs-emotional-bias-investing.asp
 
SilverPete, I feel that you are complicating what is simple. Stacking is simple, you accumulate at the best possible price on the day, some chosen coin or bar that will augment your stack. What is complicated is investing, buying and selling to make a profit. Physical metals would be the worst tool for such an endeavour as the difference between the buyer and seller's premium usually negates any profit. You would need to play the paper market.

The profit you get from stacking is the stacking experience. Only you can put a value on that. Financial profit usually only comes from going long.
 
PMs have yet to prove a poor investment for me. Going by past performance, I should apologise to all for causing the drop in PM prices. However, my usual effect is to cause things to turn turtle, and I haven't achieved that yet, so maybe there is hope.

My worst-loss investing strategy involved a roulette table.
My best-paying investing strategy involved a roulette table.

I'm hoping PMs are a little more worthwhile overall.
At least it seems to take longer ......

Honestly, doubt helps keep you honest. It causes you to assess and re-assess. Excessive doubt, however, paralyses you and prevents you from taking action when you should or startles you into action when you should hold still.
"Invest" only that which you can afford to lose and enjoy the game. Whatever it is, including roulette.
 
wrcmad said:
I comprehend just fine. But I don't need to "believe" what might be. Instead I use what I know.
I don't subscribe to the self-interest-scare-monger-campaign-sales-tactic rhetoric of the select few self-labelled gurus. I like to make up my own mind.
I am in the game because I play. And when I play well, I make profits.
I own my decisions, and don't need to offload blame.
I take responsibility if price moves against me, and don't feel the need to be always right.
I manage risk accordingly, and protect my capital.

So in other words, you knowingly & willingly play in numerous rigged games, yourself -- yet chide others for doing the same.


Got it. :)
 
sammysilver said:
SilverPete, I feel that you are complicating what is simple. Stacking is simple, you accumulate at the best possible price on the day, some chosen coin or bar that will augment your stack. What is complicated is investing, buying and selling to make a profit. Physical metals would be the worst tool for such an endeavour as the difference between the buyer and seller's premium usually negates any profit. You would need to play the paper market.

The profit you get from stacking is the stacking experience. Only you can put a value on that. Financial profit usually only comes from going long.
Maybe I didn't describe my intent very clearly... I don't stack for profit. I am noting that there are certain human attributes and falabilities that lead to cognitive and emotional biases, and I think it is important to understand this and be wary of their influence. I listed what I think are mine and what I see in others, and the ones I think I personally need to watch out for.

Some people refuse to question their own biases, but if you do, and try to understand the potential impact they have on your thinking, then I believe it will help in understanding risks and in becoming more mentally and emotionally resilient to changing conditions, and importantly, can help in avoiding subtle, insidious influences that may fly under your conscious radar.
 
Gatito Bandito said:
wrcmad said:
I comprehend just fine. But I don't need to "believe" what might be. Instead I use what I know.
I don't subscribe to the self-interest-scare-monger-campaign-sales-tactic rhetoric of the select few self-labelled gurus. I like to make up my own mind.
I am in the game because I play. And when I play well, I make profits.
I own my decisions, and don't need to offload blame.
I take responsibility if price moves against me, and don't feel the need to be always right.
I manage risk accordingly, and protect my capital.

So in other words, you knowingly & willingly play in numerous rigged games, yourself -- yet chide others for doing the same.


Got it. :)

No - you ain't even close to got it.
Not in other words, or in any words at all.

The words claiming rigged games were yours, not mine.
I do however willingly play.
And I've never chided others for doing the same. In fact I would encourage it.
I will chide others for playing, then trying to blame others or offload accountability for their own wrong investment decisions or shitty risk management. ;)

If you want to rephrase my posts, then at least make it resemble a little of what I actually said.
 
PM is a hedge against stocks of other varieties.

if you look at reports of the day/s when silver and gold were heading north not so many days ago you find them dropping (other stocks etc) and PM rising.

now PM's are dropping and http://www.cnbc.com/id/102276399

its not rocket science I think people over complicate this stuff.

one up one down its balance can't be both up now can they :)

so yeah if you don't like stocks which silver and gold are as are all investments right.

get out and go play another game there are plenty out there to play :D

for me when the stocks backed by banks etc tank which we had a slight glimpse of over the last week or so I will have cash when others don't giving me more buying power, other side of the coin is when the ship is sailing along smoothly I look like a dickhead holding metals.

its the game we have created.


PS if all else fails watch this and stop thinking for awhile you get old fast thinking to much and it wont matter if you have silver or gold or what ever !!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zh-D4nAMhk[/youtube]
 
In time, most of us will find that buying was actually the easy part. This time and place will fade and eventually we will face the opposite side of coin........when to sell?
The same questions that fill our minds now...ie how low can it go?...as we want the best possible entry price, minimum time for price turnaround ( I have been sitting on my coins for 8 years now).......but in time we will stress over just how high this silver can go and the opportune time to sell to maximise profit.
 
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