Chinese medals - pouches, packaging, and OMP

mmissinglink

mmissinglink

Active Member
This thread actually has come out of another thread in which the discussion had turned to the integrity of the pouches some Chinese medals come in. This subject should have its own thread and that's why I have begun it here.

From the other thread, forum member KeepOnTrying! had responded to another member's comment stating,
Your chances of getting it (a 70 grade) also depend on if your medal was or was not pre-sorted to remove candidates for a higher grade. I don't know whom you bought it from so I can't be accused of casting aspersions on some specific individual or company.

It is not a far fetched idea. Some have said it happens. Early this year I bought some (a lot of) ungraded newly launched silver medals hoping to score PF70s as much as suggested by the grading statistics from NGC. They arrived with high COA#. Some of the OMG had been cracked open. I sent an email complaining to the company and they ignored me. I therefore sent the medals to NGC for grading and they did not grade well; definitely not as suggested by the NGC statistics. This is a company I had already spent a lot on in the previous year. This is a company I will never buy any more from!

I hope I haven't messed up your day with my pessimism and gloom!
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To which I responded in that same thread....
I've had the recent experience of receiving 2 sets of medals with the plastic pouch open and I was told by the seller that this is normal for some pouches to open. I was suspicious of this and I still am leery of that explanation. To me, it doesn't make sense at all that a sealed pouch opens by itself. I think next time I will not accept any medals where the pouches have been broken unless someone can explain in a very convincing manner why a sealed pouch would open by itself?

The other thing I was told by the seller is that with some medals, the mint does not seal them in plastic pouches but rather any of the several large distributors who receives the medals from the mint may do this. The seller claimed that this is the reason why for the same medal, you may see different style pouches and sealing patterns.

Can anyone who knows, confirm whether this might be true or not?
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And so here we are with this thread open to all discussions on pouches, OMP (original mint packaging), and related issues.





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The question I would like to pose to forum members is this "When you buy ungraded coins (in OMP) (1) Do you expect the coin(s) you get to be picked up randomly from the pile the seller has and sent to you or (2) Do you believe/accept the possibility that the coin you are sold has been picked from a prescreened group as discussed in the initial posting? What are your views/personal experience?
 
If you buy one coin at a time I would expect it to be whatever was handy.

If you buy a whole sheet or roll then I think you have an expectation that they will come as a complete sheet or roll.

However I don't think it hurts to ask before making a large purchase. Particularly if the dealer also sells graded coins.
 
I agree with mmisinglink that the plastic pouch can not be open by itself.
Those sellers said that is either dishonor or did not value their customer concerned.

I think ( I could be wrong) the pouch opened or resealed due to :
1- Not careful cut it out from the whole sheet.
2- Was returned with low grading. ( it's more value to sale as OMP than low graded).
3- Pick from opened display goods. (Did not have time to find or locate them in stock pile inventory)

If we buy from a dealer that sale OMP and graded products, ( We buy OMP and grade ourselves), we should not expect to get a highest grade due to dealer already cherry picked. ( KeepOnTrying! raising questions above)
 
HAC888 said:
I agree with mmisinglink that the plastic pouch can not be open by itself.
Those sellers said that is either dishonor or did not value their customer concerned.

I think ( I could be wrong) the pouch opened or resealed due to :
1- Not careful cut it out from the whole sheet.
2- Was returned with low grading. ( it's more value to sale as OMP than low graded).
3- Pick from opened display goods. (Did not have time to find or locate them in stock pile inventory)

If we buy from a dealer that sale OMP and graded products, ( We buy OMP and grade ourselves), we should not expect to get a highest grade due to dealer already cherry picked. ( KeepOnTrying! raising questions above)
Click to expand...

I think this is a delicate area to discuss. But the practice of "extreme" pre-screening and selling those that don't make the grade without informing the customer ahead of time is not wholesome, probably unethical. The plastic OMPs that were opened in my case did not look as if it was by accident and there were 5 of such in the pack of 20 that they sent to me. It happened for both the 1oz and 5oz coins.
 
I hope it does not happen with the few dealers there are that i deal with but if i was to consistently get lower grades i would stop buying from them. I know a few places in the US that do this all the time and i would never buy from them.
 
HAC888 said:
I agree with mmisinglink that the plastic pouch can not be open by itself.
Those sellers said that is either dishonor or did not value their customer concerned.

I think ( I could be wrong) the pouch opened or resealed due to :
1- Not careful cut it out from the whole sheet.
2- Was returned with low grading. ( it's more value to sale as OMP than low graded).
3- Pick from opened display goods. (Did not have time to find or locate them in stock pile inventory)

If we buy from a dealer that sale OMP and graded products, ( We buy OMP and grade ourselves), we should not expect to get a highest grade due to dealer already cherry picked. ( KeepOnTrying! raising questions above)
Click to expand...



1- Not careful cut it out from the whole sheet.
This possible

2- Was returned with low grading. ( it's more value to sale as OMP than low graded).
They must fully cut the pouch, open the original Capsule then place it into another capsule for sending grading if the coin/medal is double seal. In fact, they can cherry pick without cutting the pouch except the dealer is not experience enough. Nevertheless, cutting the pouch and open the capsule will give you more clearer view. However, this harm the value of the coins/medal in china for sure. As for oversea market customer will realise and complaint too. In long term, they will even loss those customers and not worth it. In additional, they also need to factor in the grading fee into their cost.

The above apply to coin/medal value not more than USD500. Some dealers might take the above risks if the coin is rare, hard to grade in good grade and significant big gap between omp and slab. Example: 1991 10 years anniversary 1 oz gold panda, 83 27 gram silver proof panda and so on. I did came across some china dealers buyback low grade gold panda MS67 & 66 at low price in show and find a brilliant way to give a new pouch to restore back to original seal. Then they sell at china at original seal price. As at now, gold panda has this issue. I did not hear and came across for other high value coins/medals with those practise in china.

Therefore costs and benefits analysis always been carry out for this case.

Please share if you know something else. I am not in china physically so I dare not say I know all.


3- Pick from opened display goods. (Did not have time to find or locate them in stock pile inventory)

I have visit Beijing and Shanghai coin market in big compound. Majority of the stuff are in seal except some big medal totally got no seal and capsule, some seal are manufacturing issues (i.e. the 4 Buddha medal, and panda expo 1) I did came across a china article talk about the seal of 4 Buddha medal. It has issue at first 1 or 2 medal then the mints came with 2 seal pouch. The first pouch inner side okay BUT the second still partly open.

By the way, it is stupid for dealer partly open the seal which give them no benefit to take out coin/medal to have clearer view during cheery picking processes. Why not open the full seal since is party open for cherry pick?

This the china article of the 4 Buddha pouch

45 Post By2013/8/27 10:06:00

4545
 
Google translate from andrewlee10 inserted (Chinese words) ( just in case someone curious what's says )


The second batch of 45 mm Putuo small bronze medallion newly invented plastic posts mood Post By: 2013/8/27 10:06:00

It is reported that the second batch of 45 mm plastic Putuo small bronze medallion will be a big improvement. Since the Shenyang plant before the plastic problem, leading to the copper surface chapter adhesions, feeling inferior to the United States. The forthcoming arrival of the 45 mm small bronze for the first time inside the sealed using plastic in the form of a layer of plastic wrap, I hope this situation can be resolved completely avoid adhesion of bronze!

45 Post By2013/8/27 10:06:00

4545
 
Though I appreciate the translation, it wasn't really very helpful to me. Is what is meant by the text is that the second batch of medals is being put into a plastic wrap before being put into a plastic pouch?




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The first batch without plastic wrap and direct pouch which cause problem and get compliant massively. Therefore, it is hardly get a good graded first medal. I will post a photo of the first medal later when free to take photo lol.

They did improved the pouch issue in second model by putting a plastic wrap before the seal pouch.
 
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