Chinese ghost cites.....worth keeping an eye on this.

[Ipv6Ready]

It'll be interesting to see how Australia's iron exports go when they stop building ghost cities.

If you look at past when Japanese and Koreans where dirt poor, making all the crap China makes now, I’d say China will consume far far more iron, aluminium, copper etc. as they get as richer.

South Korea in 1960 was the poorest country in the world by a long margin.

 

[Oddjob]

Given China's modernisation is fairly recent (ie last 30 years), their appetite for raw materials such as iron ore to fuel that growth has been huge.... As with all modern countries most things are built with a level of planned obsolescence thus the big question no one really answer is what level of recycling will / can China undertake in the coming years when they tearing down and rebuilding various part of their infrastructure?.... If China starts recycling materials like steel / iron, then that too will / may impact Australian iron ore exports to China at a future date.

 

[willrocks]

I wonder if 60 minutes looked at South Korea and surely other countries do this too

Though due to small landmass in Korea many of this development are by nature closer to a larger city.

The cities are planned and built on a dirt patch, and it takes 20 years to fill up. Even Seoul could be considered, where whole sections went from few hundred to million population in a space of ten years or so. Ie you can google apartments parks where 200 apartments buildings are built in one large block and a kilometres away another 100 to 300 apartment block is built.

The latest is Sejong City
population 1 in 2012
Polulation 300,000 in 2018
Considered a success and still expanding,
(typically planned cities have patron government departments or large enterprises moving in on opening, some older example else where in Korea is Samsung City near Suwon region 50km from Seoul, and Posco town located 90km etc)
When Sejong city opened there would have been apartments that was not occupied for 5 years as the city wasn’t allowed residents until it opened.
In 2012 official opening there was 15,000 empty apartments.

Songdo Intertantional Business District. Running behind but a beautiful place when I was there last year.
Not very successful due to lofty ambitions and not having a “patron government department or keystone enterprise” but getting there
Population zero 2014 with 80,000 apartments.
Construction continues for more apartments???? Not sure why they don’t delay delay but as more companies relocate, would mean more people and the people like the area very much.
Population in 2018 100,000
It’s a lonely place right now
https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/06/sleepy-in-songdo-koreas-smartest-city/561374/

Sometimes late at time, in certain areas of Songdo it was surreal, like a scene of West World, where all brightly lit super modern buildings on one side and tiny farms from 1950 as you walk down, all of the ground retail store obviously never has a shop in it.

In China a lot of ghost cities are literally falling apart due to poor construction. Those cities aren't built in anticipation of people actually living there. They're built in anticipation of investors paying for them.

 

[willrocks]

If you look at past when Japanese and Koreans where dirt poor, making all the crap China makes now, I’d say China will consume far far more iron, aluminium, copper etc. as they get as richer.

South Korea in 1960 was the poorest country in the world by a long margin.

In the 1960s South Korea experienced a low skill manufacturing boom. This also happened in Japan, Taiwan and other Asian countries. China is now making all the cheap crap for the rest of the world, however as China's cost of labor moves up, manufacturers will seek out cheaper alternatives such as India.

The reason China isn't filling the ghost cities is because people can't afford to live in them. I can't see that changing in the short-term (5-10 years). And before those poor Chinese get richer, I think most manufacturers will be already seeking cheaper alternatives.

 

[Ipv6Ready]

In China a lot of ghost cities are literally falling apart due to poor construction. Those cities aren't built in anticipation of people actually living there. They're built in anticipation of investors paying for them.

That’s the same in Korea and Japan, very few building last 40 or houses last 30 years.
They get rebuilt even the high rises.

 

[Ipv6Ready]

In the 1960s South Korea experienced a low skill manufacturing boom. This also happened in Japan, Taiwan and other Asian countries. China is now making all the cheap crap for the rest of the world, however as China's cost of labor moves up, manufacturers will seek out cheaper alternatives such as India.

The reason China isn't filling the ghost cities is because people can't afford to live in them. I can't see that changing in the short-term (5-10 years). And before those poor Chinese get richer, I think most manufacturers will be already seeking cheaper alternatives.

I’d suggest be it is Korea or China, when one developer (usullay there are many developers) hits the hard time, all those gets snapped up at bargain, than the ball start rolling.

Do you know how much an apartment in those ghost cities sell for, I doubt they are too expensive for the locals.

If they are $100,000 to $200,000 in middle of nowhere China ghost cities, that is 8 to 15 years single average income.
Even thoiugh average salary is $12k USD, it is likely 50 million people in China earring $20k usd a year and 10 million people earring $40k a year.

 

[willrocks]

That’s the same in Korea and Japan, very few building or houses last 30 years.

It's not the same. Don't fool yourself.

 

[Ipv6Ready]

It's not the same. Don't fool yourself.

I presume, youre not from China, Korea or Japan.
This is by design. As old house and flats have very very low value.

Just land value. Korea and Japan for different reason, but the design life for properties is not much more 50 year,

The average Korean apartment is 20 years old because continual rebuilding and of course brand new ones too. But typically well before a apartment block becomes 40 years old, developers buy the whole building block which might have ten high rise apartments and when becomes 40 years old... it is bulldozed the next day

In 1980 1 in 20 people had a car in Korea, most didn’t have a shower or bath, just a tiny toilet and small area to wash your face and hair.

Now 1 in 4 have cars and as people get richer no one buys an apartment without parking, and proper baths.

Not many 1980 high rise apartment standing unless the area is a slum.

Now that Koran government allows 30 year old parents blocks to be rebuilt, I doubt workmanship in Korean apartments would need to even last 40 years

In Japan,
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/16/japan-reusable-housing-revolution

 

[Tokyo]

I am from Japan you guys don’t understand nothing but keep spreading the rumours. Lol
Do you know the regulations chang in Japan? I bet you have no idea.
If you do feel free to get back to me . News and tv is baked in you head

 

[Ipv6Ready]

I am from Japan you guys don’t understand nothing but keep spreading the rumours. Lol
Do you know the regulations chang in Japan? I bet you have no idea.
If you do feel free to get back to me . News and tv is baked in you head

Actually it would be good, what is it in Japan, hence the links, where as I wrote about Korea being Korean.

 

[leo25]

I am from Japan you guys don’t understand nothing but keep spreading the rumours. Lol
Do you know the regulations chang in Japan? I bet you have no idea.
If you do feel free to get back to me . News and tv is baked in you head

Please expand. What are the regulations that keep changing which causes people to keep rebuilding? Also how cheap is it to build a new home to make it a viable option?
Also what info in the news is false?

 

[Tokyo]

hint” Do Korea have earthquake like Japan? Do China get earthquake Japan? Do they get tsunami&typhoon salt rain on houses? Do they need new regulations? Do they need to build stronger? Is steel foundation new code? Is really bullid cheap risking people’s life?
Sheep be always be sheep. Foolish but you choice to believe whatever.

 

[Ipv6Ready]

hint” Do Korea have earthquake like Japan? Do China get earthquake Japan? Do they get tsunami&typhoon salt rain on houses? Do they need new regulations? Do they need to build stronger? Is steel foundation new code? Is really bullid cheap risking people’s life?
Sheep be always be sheep. Foolish but you choice to believe whatever.

Presumably English is your second language. If you read what wilrocks and I wrote, each countries have different reasons but at the end housing is continually rebuilt.

willrocks believes it is shoddy workmanship, where as I believe the real reason houses and buildings in Korea, Japan and China use cheaper material is because it’s not designed to stand for 100 years, And even the link to Japan housing says so.

The above link the American raised Korea guy doesn’t know this is common.
That is how many 35 year old apartment looks in Korea even in the richest ares of Gangnam style.

Basically the whole block with ten or twenty mid rise apartments would be bought by a developer. Rich owners would have moved out before this and will be renting to the poor students and even more poorer as it gets closer to demolition date until it’s locked up
but rent would be really cheap.

Owners can sell outright for cash .. or pay a small amount to the developer in exchange for getting a brand new modern apartment.

The developers would build multiple 40 to 50 floors high rise apartment, to make a profit.

Here is another one

Note unlike Australia, the area the developers have to buy is huge and could be billions of dollars.

 

[leo25]

hint” Do Korea have earthquake like Japan? Do China get earthquake Japan? Do they get tsunami&typhoon salt rain on houses? Do they need new regulations? Do they need to build stronger? Is steel foundation new code? Is really bullid cheap risking people’s life?
Sheep be always be sheep. Foolish but you choice to believe whatever.

I understand English is not your first language, but can you please try and structure what you are saying a bit better. You are all over the place.

 

[willrocks]

I presume, youre not from China, Korea or Japan.

You presume wrong.

This is by design. As old house and flats have very very low value.

You literally took one article about 30+ year old houses in Japan being rebuilt and applied that to multiple countries, cities, apartments ... etc, and somehow came to the conclusion that Chinese shoddy building standards are by design so they can rebuild them in 30 years. Please ... give me a break.

I've also lived in Japan. Most of the inner city buildings looked to be much older than 30 years. Japanese buildings don't fall over/apart before they need to be rebuilt. They are rebuilt because people want newer buildings. There's a big difference.