Buying bread with Silver? Really?

[VRS]

We all know what happened in the Brisbane floods - some of us have also experienced other natural disasters such as cyclones, hurricanes etc.,(and in my case major earthquakes in Chch NZ), tsunamis - plus I remember when I was a kid how simple disruptions such as municipal workers strikes, bin men etc brought 1970's Manchester to an absolute standstill with refuse piled 20ft high in the streets and plagues of rats...

Just look at Hurricane Katrina - that turned N Orleans into some kind of zombie city where basic human values broke down totally. Civil strife is one thing, and out & out war is another - don't forget that whatever the case the veneer of 'civilisation' is extremely thin.

And Sargent Argent you're absolutely right mate - just check out Needle Park on E Hastings on a Friday/Saturday night and you'll see what I mean lol! Also do you remember recently when we had riots in Greece, riots in UK and riots in Vancouver because the Canucks had their a55es whipped by Boston?

Van is my second home & I've been spending time every year there for the past 25 years - seen it change immensely from being a soulful small-ish city into the Bladerunner-esque futuristic playground that it has become... and as the city grew, the change in the people...

The bottom line is that we all keep candles, torches & tinned food as stock in our homes - if you're concerned about everything breaking down do go off-grid, grow your own veggies, keep your own chooks and store whatever you might need for 3 months' post-apocalyptic living... It may even be a useful exercise to teach the kids how we are so dependent these days, being spoon-fed news, food, power etc...

Interesting stuff...

VRS x

 

[wilkes]

I think people are too stupid to realise what those announcements mean if they were actually made or else the shelves would be emptying out.

Exactly.
If you want to start stocking up on food, buy it as close to the time as you will need to use it!
You'll have plenty of time to stock up if such a scenario did come to pass.
It would only take a few hours to get your supplies to last for several months.

The silly thing about that little clip is that within 12 hours of the hypothetical Chinese announcement, the Fed announces a 1.5 trillion dollar injection.
Really?
Or would they just dither around for a few weeks of crisis discussions, FMOC emergency meetings and super-Congress meetings instead?

Why wait? Can't you see the sense in preparing before the 1 day or 1 week you will have to stockpile food and water?

You would need to be SURE you beat the rat race to the shops, you would also need to be certain:
- You had enough money to purchase all needed goods immediately.
- In the mania and frenzy of the on the spot buying, be sure not to miss anything essential.
- Banks haven't closed so you have access to enough cash. If you try and tell me: "Well if banks are crashing, I will just buy food before they go under" Well to that I simply say, many are! One decent push and they come crumbling down.
- Methods of storage for all perishables including chemicals to purify water and pack/seal food fresh without electricity if required. (Almost anything you rush out and buy at the supermarket aside from canned goods will rot on you quickly.)
- Take the time to obtain grain grinders, generators and other needed essential tools to either cultivate or generate food without electricity.

Just a few off the top of my head. I don't think anyone needs to go overboard, but most of this stuff can be accumulated over a period of time and kept in the shed or spare room without too much effort, money or over the top worry/thinking.

There are many reasons to be prepared, but few support a lack of preparation.

 

[Diablo21]

Except that 'guy' embellished many details and probably just made up others in order to sell a book. I've done a quick bit of research and found that while their was an economic crisis it was nothing like he purports, certainly not bands of highwaymen roaming the countryside, poisoning dogs and pillaging farms. If you believe his account like it's the spoken word of God, a totally factual accounting of the situation in Argentina, then you shouldn't.
Christ even the airlines only had to stop international flights a day or two here and a day or two there.

So first you say sh*t will hit the fan and it'll be chaos and then when I say it won't be bad, you say my information is wrong but then you say it won't be bad "Christ even the airlines only had to stop international flights a day or two here and a day or two there."

Make up your mind...

 

[BBQ]

Politicians will be debating what to do for months while people watch it on TV oblivious to how it would affect them.
That would be the time to take your trailer to Costco.

People in Argentina woke up one day with their money devalued. Could happen anywhere, and probably will.

Politicians are talking about nothing now, and always will. Personally I wouldn't be using them as a timing guide for anything.

 

[Lav]

I think people are too stupid to realise what those announcements mean if they were actually made or else the shelves would be emptying out.

Exactly.
If you want to start stocking up on food, buy it as close to the time as you will need to use it!
You'll have plenty of time to stock up if such a scenario did come to pass.
It would only take a few hours to get your supplies to last for several months.

The silly thing about that little clip is that within 12 hours of the hypothetical Chinese announcement, the Fed announces a 1.5 trillion dollar injection.
Really?
Or would they just dither around for a few weeks of crisis discussions, FMOC emergency meetings and super-Congress meetings instead?

Why wait? Can't you see the sense in preparing before the 1 day or 1 week you will have to stockpile food and water?

You would need to be SURE you beat the rat race to the shops, you would also need to be certain:
- You had enough money to purchase all needed goods immediately.
- In the mania and frenzy of the on the spot buying, be sure not to miss anything essential.
- Banks haven't closed so you have access to enough cash. If you try and tell me: "Well if banks are crashing, I will just buy food before they go under" Well to that I simply say, many are! One decent push and they come crumbling down.
- Methods of storage for all perishables including chemicals to purify water and pack/seal food fresh without electricity if required. (Almost anything you rush out and buy at the supermarket aside from canned goods will rot on you quickly.)
- Take the time to obtain grain grinders, generators and other needed essential tools to either cultivate or generate food without electricity.

Just a few off the top of my head. I don't think anyone needs to go overboard, but most of this stuff can be accumulated over a period of time and kept in the shed or spare room without too much effort, money or over the top worry/thinking.

There are many reasons to be prepared, but few support a lack of preparation.

Well having a stock of food/water/supplies is essential for any household in any economic climate but I personally think we have quite some time before people need to start getting really loaded. Maybe the time won't even come who knows for sure.

 

[BBQ]

Argentina documentary.

12 parts, probably worth a watch while contemplating the bread question.
Argentina:Ahora o Nunca

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YadmuZ1Lv-s[/youtube]

 

[MetalMajix]

They bought food with gold in Zimbabwe.

In the USA there is a lot of freeze dried food available unlike in Australia.
Buy now, avoid a possible rush / higher prices later.

 

[MetalMajix]

One disturbing item in Ferfal's blog.

Increase in children going missing as there was more lawlessness and police didn't have as many resources so some took the opportunity to take children. Some sold for adoption overseas, some for ransom, some taken by paedophiles and so on.

 

[BBQ]

They bought food with gold in Zimbabwe.

Yep
Really makes me grateful for what I've got when I see this.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM[/youtube]

 

[Guest]

I'm getting prepared, more for the sake of being prepared that 100% believing it will get that bad. What makes todays world different to Weimar Germany? Nothing. If we have worldwide economic collapse then it will be a SHTF scenario where PM's will have greater purchasing power than paper dollars.

When the flooding occurred in Queensland they were air dropping FOOD and WATER to affected areas. In some areas all shops were completely empty within days. We are a 1st world country, with no economic instability or warfare, trucks still driving and farms still producing and they were still heavily affected. That was a SHTF scenario on small scale.

I know you are from the US remember stories or the great depression? Remember more recently hurricane Katrina? Same thing, smaller scale.

If and when we have some wide spread problems this all becomes real for us. I will be preparing slowly, but surely.

This is really insignificant,not a complaint but an observation on a simple taken for granted every day food item down south..

The humble banana.Before the Queensland floods $3.50 a kiloNow months and months later were still paying $12 a kilo
My kids are wondering why their are no banana's in the fruit bowl any moreShortages happen in an instantTrucks delivering all our food supply's 24/7 has given us a false sense of food security.

Agree with what you have said above.

Cheers

REDBACK

 

[Guest]

I doubt Americans will be flipping eagles for a Big Mac. Ever.
Those who are stockpiling tin cans and digging storage rooms are, in my humble opinion, overly-paranoid. I will try to explain why.
But, as someone pointed out in another thread, this is the same society that built nuclear fallout shelters in the 1950s.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be prepared, but there is such a thing as going off the deep end.
But maybe it's just an American thing because quite frankly, the Anglo-Saxon world doesn't know what to expect from an inflation, the only example some of the more acute citizens know of being the Weimar hyperinflation.
But let's take a look at France post-WWII and their currency devaluation following Bretton Woods:

1) In 1945, 120 francs bought a US dollar
2) In 1949 it was 350 francs to the dollar
3) By 1958 it had hit close to 500 francs to the dollar

So in 1960, everything denominated in old francs was simply divided by 100 and a new franc was introduced.
French society did not fall apart and people were not robbing each other for loaves of bread a-la 1789.
So in the end, given the fact that not all devaluations end in societal collpase, I really doubt that the collapse of the US dollar (if it actually occurs) is going to plunge the US into a Mad Max scenario.

But look at it this way:

* Deflation is a natural economic process that seems to be occurring now. In this scenario, the US dollar will be worth something.

* Mega inflation is an artificially manufactured scenario that derives from a Central Bank that has decided to commit economic suicide in order to pay down a debt. In other words, look to the politicians and the bankers to see what they are doing. It will be their deliberate actions that will tell us if the road to hyperinflation has started, not merely market forces (and it hasn't at this time).
QE1, QE2, the Twist etc etc is not the beginning of hyperinflation. Hyperinflation would begin with REAL PRINTING. What is real priniting? We'll know it if we see it.

* Because most people on this board are well attuned to what is happening in the world economy, we should have plenty of forewarning that
1) The system is starting to be flushed with money that banks are currently holding in reserve.
2) The US Fed has decided they are going to hyperinflate. (again, this IS NOT just a round of QE, this would be REAL PRINTING and we will know about it!)

If you see scenarios 1 or 2 beginning to occur, you will have time to stock up on you food and non-perishables.
Politicians will be debating what to do for months while people watch it on TV oblivious to how it would affect them.
That would be the time to take your trailer to Costco.
Nothing ever happens has quickly or as suddenly as you expect.
Those stocking up at this time are over-pessimistic, I think.

Earthjade,in the other post about Americans being overly paranoid and building fallout shelters.did nobody counter with the example of the Cuban missile crisisThat paranoia almost became a reality!
And being 43 the threat of Nuclear obliteration was pushed by our government as well during my formative years.If i lived in Pine Gap during that era i would have been concerned.
Those who are stockpiling Tin cans are just prudent and not willing to take the risk especially if Children are involved.
I see no relationship between storing food and paranoia,quite the contrary its in our nature.
Try telling our Rural ancestors storing food was paranoid.
Even Esop disagree's with you and that buggers wisdom goes back along way.
I would say in a crisis without restocking All supermarket shelves would be empty in 5 days and i think i am being generousYou can't eat money or Pm's

REDBACK

 

[940palmtx]

Except that 'guy' embellished many details and probably just made up others in order to sell a book. I've done a quick bit of research and found that while their was an economic crisis it was nothing like he purports, certainly not bands of highwaymen roaming the countryside, poisoning dogs and pillaging farms. If you believe his account like it's the spoken word of God, a totally factual accounting of the situation in Argentina, then you shouldn't.
Christ even the airlines only had to stop international flights a day or two here and a day or two there.

So first you say sh*t will hit the fan and it'll be chaos and then when I say it won't be bad, you say my information is wrong but then you say it won't be bad "Christ even the airlines only had to stop international flights a day or two here and a day or two there."

Make up your mind...

You've either thrown in the towel trying to make your point by lying to the board by stating something I didn't even say as a matter of record or the Canadian school system let you down and you were incapable of correctly interpreting my statement "Economic SHTF is not in question, only it's real life ramifications." to mean I wasn't questioning there was economic problems in Argentina, but I didn't't believe the societal chaos was as pronounced nor as widespread as the author had you believing. Remember sip the Kool-aid before you guzzle it down.

 

[boston]

This is really insignificant,not a complaint but an observation on a simple taken for granted every day food item down south..

The humble banana.Before the Queensland floods $3.50 a kiloNow months and months later were still paying $12 a kilo
My kids are wondering why their are no banana's in the fruit bowl any moreShortages happen in an instantTrucks delivering all our food supply's 24/7 has given us a false sense of food security.

Agree with what you have said above.

Cheers

REDBACK

What amazes me, is that the price of imported bananas prior to the Queensland crisis was comparably cheaper than locally sourced bananas. Yet after the Queensland floods it's pricing skyrocketed, regardless of the fact that overseas production was not affected by any natural disasters.

Price gouging by the supermarkets perhaps?

 

[EJAM5]

Great points of view all round. The house of cards fell in 2008 but nothing changed. Billions/Trillions..'tis all sounding really silly now. Governments / Banks with their bailouts, Companies with their profits, execs with their bonuses and more taxes to the commoners... (A carbon tax???? geez!)

Don't be paranoid, be informed. Don't panic, be prepared...

Will add $100 worth of tin food, water & essentials to the weekly shopping for the next month. Will stack them right next to the PMs

 

[Earthjade]

I would say in a crisis without restocking All supermarket shelves would be empty in 5 days and i think i am being generousYou can't eat money or Pm's

Define crisis.
Specifically, define the point in a crisis where the public rushes to clear the shelves.
People talk about SHTF but most are very vague on the details.
However, the insinuation is the "crisis" will happen so lightning fast that if you don't stock up now, you're in trouble.
For example, the hyperinflation scare film that Recon posted seems to think shelves will be cleared within 3 hours of the Chinese announcing they will no longer buy US treasuries...
Where is the justification for this? Because all I'm seeing is scaremongering.

For example in Germany in 1923, it took about 4 months for the hyperinflation to build up (from January to May).
You don't just wake up and find that prices have risen ten times since the previous night in those early stages.
There will be a run up stage where you can react.
You will have time - a few weeks minimum.

In the case where the government is going to do something stupid that will affect prices and wages, you'll also get some forewarning of that as well.
Again, there will be time to react.

Now look, I am not saying that the worst case scenario is impossible, because it isn't.
However, I also have strong reservations on people that are, quite frankly, trying to whip up panic when by all rational measures, it is not justified at this time.
Have a plan worked out in case the worst does start to pan out: yes.
Monitor the situation: yes.
Digging a bunker and stacking up on canned beans and potable water: no.

Talk to me again in three months and I'll tell you if anything has changed.
I don't really feel like eating pallets of corned beef and tuna in a year's time because they're about to go bad.

 

[purplefunkything]

This is what went off the shelves at Woolworths first during the first flood in Emerald (central Qld):
All water products, most tinned food, all meat and veg, dog food, kitty litter, biscuits, bread mix (for bread machines), loo paper and of course mops buckets dettol etc.
And yes, there was panic buying considering Coles was under water and Woolies was our only supermarket. With the second lot of flooding people weren't any near as freaked out and shelves weren't too bad however the dog food vanished again.
It was spooky to see the supermarket shelves near empty...
Buying in bulk and vac-packing the extra is a good idea regardless of what may or may not happen, you save money in the long run, are prepared for natural disasters etc. Its a smart win - win situation and I'm pretty certain that 99% of families who have lived through a natural disaster would have at least one months supply of food.

 

[Diablo21]

You've either thrown in the towel trying to make your point by lying to the board by stating something I didn't even say as a matter of record or the Canadian school system let you down and you were incapable of correctly interpreting my statement "Economic SHTF is not in question, only it's real life ramifications." to mean I wasn't questioning there was economic problems in Argentina, but I didn't't believe the societal chaos was as pronounced nor as widespread as the author had you believing. Remember sip the Kool-aid before you guzzle it down.

Wow you are as rude as you are dumb!!!

I knew there was a reason I never replied to your posts but in this case you had a question and I tried to give you some information and you go all nuts on me. I'm not going to argue with you any more because I have nothing to gain from it and I don't need to lie to the board or post on every thread I see to make myself look knowledgeable, people that I talk to on this forum know what kind of a person I am.

No need to make personal attacks and if any schooling system has let me down then it would have to be the American schooling system because I'm from the USA, living in Canada.

Back to the topic folks....

 

[Guest]

I would say in a crisis without restocking All supermarket shelves would be empty in 5 days and i think i am being generousYou can't eat money or Pm's

Define crisis.
Specifically, define the point in a crisis where the public rushes to clear the shelves.
People talk about SHTF but most are very vague on the details.
However, the insinuation is the "crisis" will happen so lightning fast that if you don't stock up now, you're in trouble.
For example, the hyperinflation scare film that Recon posted seems to think shelves will be cleared within 3 hours of the Chinese announcing they will no longer buy US treasuries...
Where is the justification for this? Because all I'm seeing is scaremongering.

For example in Germany in 1923, it took about 4 months for the hyperinflation to build up (from January to May).
You don't just wake up and find that prices have risen ten times since the previous night in those early stages.
There will be a run up stage where you can react.
You will have time - a few weeks minimum.

In the case where the government is going to do something stupid that will affect prices and wages, you'll also get some forewarning of that as well.
Again, there will be time to react.

Now look, I am not saying that the worst case scenario is impossible, because it isn't.
However, I also have strong reservations on people that are, quite frankly, trying to whip up panic when by all rational measures, it is not justified at this time.
Have a plan worked out in case the worst does start to pan out: yes.
Monitor the situation: yes.
Digging a bunker and stacking up on canned beans and potable water: no.

Talk to me again in three months and I'll tell you if anything has changed.
I don't really feel like eating pallets of corned beef and tuna in a year's time because they're about to go bad.

Earthjade i' not sure at the moment wether i would choose starvation over eating corned beef..LOL
We had it last night for dinner and i ate it because i dearly love my wife and in honour of the poor animal that gave its life to produce such a unique version of food.
We have to agree to differ in opinions here,but being a prospector also gives me a healthy historical view of the 1930's psudo gold rush era.
Take care
REDBACK

 

[grinners]

As unlikely as it seems, it seems far more unlikely to me that the paper scheme we've got going will continue indefinitely.

But it wouldnt be that different really. You would have your gold held with a bank you trust, and use your EFTpos card as you do now to spend your 'money' in the bank. Don't think silver will do it though, who knows

You would have your gold held with a bank you trust ....

with a "bank you trust"?

"banks" and "trust" is the root of the problem :|

whether its a bank or a goldsmith is historically what got us in this mess in the first place

goldmoney.com style. Not a fractional reserve lending system like we have today but an institution that you pay a fee to to store your gold, that must store 100% of it and not lend it out.

Profit would come from storage fees. Just a convenience from carrying around rocks really, and being able to purchase over the internet etc.

And just a day after I said this, look what has come out on GATA's website:

Sprott plans a gold bank without loans or leverage

Submitted by cpowell on Tue, 2011-10-18 03:54. Section: Daily Dispatches

Sprott Makes a Bet on a Different Type of Bank

By Boyd Erman
The Globe and Mail, Toronto
Tuesday, October 18, 2011

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...t-on-a-different-kind-of-bank/article2204088/

Eric Sprott, one of the most vocal critics of the global financial system, wants to start a bank. But it won't be like any bank most people are used to seeing.

Mr. Sprott and the asset management firm he founded, Sprott Inc., are investing in an Ontario-based currency trading company known as Continental Currency Exchange Corp. They, along with the current management of Continental, are applying to federal regulators for permission to turn the 17-branch operation into the Continental Bank of Canada. They expect to get a decision early next year.

The bank Mr. Sprott and his partners envisage would seek to address all the things that Mr. Sprott has warned against in the global financial system, such as too much leverage and a lack of confidence in paper currency.

Continental Bank would take deposits, but it would make no loans, unlike most current banks that are built on a model of lending out far more money than they actually have on hand.

Impeccable timing

And I was laughed at for my original post in this thread!

 

[940palmtx]

I was hoping to hear from those who deride the numis for being foolhearty because their fancy coins won't buy anymore bread than a plain bullion bar. I just wanted to know what other things they had prepared for SHTF days besides a hoard of bullion.
It was a simple question born from simple curiosity. I wouldn't condemn you for storing food, water, medicine and guns. In fact I'd commend you for being fully prepared. Hey, you believe what you believe. It's the ones who merely stack PMs for the 'End of Days' and nothing else I truly wonder about.