BULLIONMARK & AUSTRAC $5000 threshold limit

goldpelican said:
Jimsilver said:
Its only $95 but I think BULLIONMARK has got a problem now that good people on this forum are informed about the $5000 limit.
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I take issue with this - the $5000 limit for customer identification requirements is a regulation that EVERY bullion dealer in Australia is required to comply with. You'll find some other dealers are far more restrictive and require certified copies of ID for any sized order.
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But isnt the $5000 limit on single transactions? AFAIK i always thought the $5000 limit was on a single transaction, NOT multiple combined orders spread over months. But I could be wrong on this....

If the $5000 limit is on combined orders how does the $10,000 limit work? Is the $10,000 limit for a single transaction or?
 
I've not dealt with Bullionmark cause they don't display their prices or do over the counter from memory but the T&C are easily found on the home page and quite legible and easy to find things like cancellation policy and Austrac info. I'd have gone through with the transaction and if really worried would buy else where for a while.
 
goldpelican said:
Jimsilver said:
Its only $95 but I think BULLIONMARK has got a problem now that good people on this forum are informed about the $5000 limit.
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I take issue with this - the $5000 limit for customer identification requirements is a regulation that EVERY bullion dealer in Australia is required to comply with. You'll find some other dealers are far more restrictive and require certified copies of ID for any sized order.
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goldpelican, are you saying you have an issue with people knowing their policy? coz at the end of the day that's all this post is saying. Its not saying anything bad or untrue.

and if EVERY bullion dealer in Australia is required to comply with it, then why do most dealers not worry about it? including BullionMark for most people?

I think everyone here would really like to understand 100% what AUSTRAC requires. coz alot of people including dealers are unclear about it.
Up until now everyone's understanding was that it had to go over $5000 in a single transaction before you had to worry about AUSTRAC.
 
kram said:
PLEASE READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE BEFORE PROCEEDING

I don't see what the problem is.
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Even if you read ALL of the fine prints words for words, chances are you won't fully understand (or misunderstood) what being said in the Terms of Service. Terms and Conditions is basically a legal document, unless you are a lawyer, solicitor or someone who is trained to read legal documents, you'll be reading the doc and scratching your head.

I tried reading Mortgage document once, read a couple of paragraphs and don't bloody understand what it's talking about, had to put it down after 10 minutes of reading. This is why you need a solicitor to read and interpret your legal documents.
 
leo25 said:
goldpelican, are you saying you have an issue with people knowing their policy?
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I took issue with the statement "BULLIONMARK has got a problem now that good people on this forum are informed". Bullionmark hasn't got a problem, I've got a problem because people are coming onto my forum and posting negative stuff about businesses that is clearly disclosed on their website, and a new member who has disclosed that they've been aware of this website for 6 months finally chooses to join up for the sole purpose of "warning" other members about a business that's acting within the disclosed terms of trade on their website, and basically pointed the finger at me personally for providing the wrong information in a post I made back in February.

People (in general) who are buying from bullion dealers should take the time to read the AUSTRAC website - it's been discussed on here previously, but bullion dealers can implement whatever customer identification thresholds they want - $5000 single transaction is required by law, but if they want to get your ID for a single ounce of silver because that's the business policy they've set, they can request it. I'm aware that not all bullion dealers are implementing the minimum AUSTRAC requirements (in that they are requesting ID below $5000/$10000 thresholds - there are dealers (and the Perth Mint is one of them as well) who require customer identification procedures to be followed for a SINGLE ounce of silver purchased online.

Do your own due diligence. It's late here, I'm on holidays, and that's my bitch for the night.
 
I've got a problem because people are coming onto my forum
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I'm a new member & the reasons / expectations i join this or any other forum (I'm a member of many covering several interests) is its supposed to be a place where even though some members have more knowledge & or experience (that they are willing to share) than others we are all equals, have equal "ownership" & as long as we play within the guidelines & rules of the forum which are set out for the good of all its fine.

I've seen many good forums become ghost towns when people start down a draconian ownership mentality & acting accordingly. Now don't get me wrong, we are all human & emotions do sometimes get to even the most level headed person so this is just a simple heads up to all from a fresh set of eyes.

As an Australian i know most of us don't take kindly to the governing body's (be they govt, civil or social) encroaching into every aspect of our business even though we abide the laws of the land we don't have to like it & normally tend to re-belle somewhat when faced with it.

Some people have & will spend a lot more time & or effort on this forum then others, they may take on roles like the Admins which is normally a pretty thankless role & from personal experience a pain in the rear when dealing with so many different personality's. At the end of the day some things are best dealt with via PM's for the greater good or just walk away & come back when a little time has passed & perspective takes hold.

Sorry for this off topic input, if anyone wishes to PM me that's fine it you want me to remove this or remove for me that's fine also. :D
 
I think the problem was caused the $95 penalty not the ID
What is that $95 for? What was the damage? Why not $500. What would you say if you get that in Target?
 
The second you do an online purchase and pay online, the authorities already have all the information they need. Why do they need anything else?
 
dross said:
I've got a problem because people are coming onto my forum
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I'm a new member & the reasons / expectations i join this or any other forum (I'm a member of many covering several interests) is its supposed to be a place where even though some members have more knowledge & or experience (that they are willing to share) than others we are all equals, have equal "ownership" & as long as we play within the guidelines & rules of the forum which are set out for the good of all its fine..
....
Sorry for this off topic input, if anyone wishes to PM me that's fine it you want me to remove this or remove for me that's fine also. :D
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Dross,
Been there too.

There have been threats of litigation from one p!ssant proprietor whenever this topic is raised. Now this particular sook likes to join up as a member under various sockpuppet pseudonyms and bait members with this topic, and then start slinging empty threats at GP and it's members. Any new member could be this rat and when a new member starts a thread like this when so many are already available with a quick use of THE SEARCH BUTTON, it naturally raises suspicion.

The reality is this is GP's house and we are his guests. He set it up, and he has to deal with all the hassles when clowns like the one (not) mentioned want to cause problems. GP has been fair and balanced as a moderator, his record is there in black & white.
 
On a side note I'm currently waiting on an order from Bulliomark (i did read the T & C's prior to placing the order) the fact i then placed the order says it all.

I don't have a problem with them & i bought from them as i felt the item i purchased was at a great price at the time after searching around all the usual suspects.

If anyone believes i may be a "sock-puppet" i have already left my you tube channel name in another threat. I'm also in Brisbane so i hope to meet as many members in person as possible at the next meet, when ever that may be.
 
Think this post has got a little overheated when it never had to.

regarding BullionMark, i have use them several times and have been VERY happy with their service. I think they have one of the best sites around and are prompt with their orders.

But now knowing at any time i could be made to fill out a AUSTRAC form does bother me a little. Now, yes i should of read the T&C info, but i didn't just like i don't read alot of fine print.
This post made me aware of something I (and many others) was not aware of, so in my eyes that's a GOOD thing. At the end of the day isn't that the whole point of forums??

As i said before (in my eyes) all this post is saying is how a business is being conducted. That's one of the main reason i joined this or any forum, so i can hear feedback from other people to make me better informed. For me that's what a forum is all about.

The only thing that might be to strong in this post was the word "warning" in the header as it might make it seem like something bad. but other then that its just informing something that happened.

Lets hope some good can come out of this. It would be nice for all bullion dealers to be more clear and upfront about their policies. I know Perth Mint are very clear and upfront about recording info which i commend them for. Because it then allowed me to make the decision not to use them.

BTW Happy new year all =D
looks like Silver is having a good start.
 
Good post Leo, I appreciated the posting as well. :)
Made me aware of this (as far as I'm aware) one-off policy.
 
leo25 said:
regarding BullionMark, i have use them several times and have been VERY happy with their service. I think they have one of the best sites around and are prompt with their orders.
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+1
 
Hey leo25

I solely started this thread just to make people aware of the $5000 limit.

I used the word "WARNING" so that it isn't overlooked.

Looking back I maybe should of replaced BULLIONMARK with dealers.

I didn't come on this forum to stir up trouble but to inform.

It started when I came across Goldpelican thread about AUSTRAC and the $10,000 threshold.

Next I went to AUSTRAC website - http://www.austrac.gov.au/threshold_transactions.html - and found that what Goldpelican wrote was correct - SO I THROUGHT.

Only to find that both our assumptions were incorrect & that many others may fall into the same trap of assuming that the limit is $10,000.

I thought I was doing the right thing by informing the good people on this forum & I hope I have achieved that.

Still there are a few people accusing me of stirring up trouble, which is not the case but thats their beef not mine.

This has all got out of hand & I'm over it. I got a life to live & silver to stack.

Double Giddyup Jimsilver
 
I can't see this issue going away in a hurry.

Despite T & Cs on websites, there will always be instances of people reading them, believing they understand the context, only to find that in practice something different may happen.

Surely it can't be that difficult for online dealers to write a script whereas when you press the "submit" button it automatically takes you to a page stating "Identification Required - Your Order will not be Confimed until the following pdf Form has been Completed and Submitted to us".

That way, it highlights the business' ID requirements so if you wish to proceed with the order you know what is required.

As opposed to accepting an order, waiting until bank transfer has been made and then asking for ID - which leaves a very sour taste in the mouth for the purchaser.

Zargor :)
 
I've not bought from Bullionmark, but I have met Mark, and would not hesitate to do so.

This is a straight down the line business, which is the type of business I prefer to rely on. Yes, Austrac and other govt oversight can suck most of the time. Yes, the rules can be a bit vague. But don't take pot shots at good people like BullionMark and GoldPelican who are simply complying with their obligations.

I know for a fact that these guys go to great lengths to protect your personal information.

Besides, I have to say this, cause they know my true identity. ;)
 
+ 1 Zargor

Otherwise people would feel the same way as the "german silver" buyers "we told you"
No question was raised on the excellent service, but if this thread makes any website service better or improved for new and unexperienced buyers than should be welcomed.
 
The $5000 ID and $10000 cash transaction levels are per single transaction.

However, that is about the only prescriptive aspect of the ALM/CTF law. The law is risk based, which means each dealer has to make its own assessment of the risk that each client and the transactions they are doing potentially involve money laundering or terrorism financing.

This risk assessment and thus policies will differ between dealers because the sort of customers and products dealers target differ.

However, I am very sure that a dealer who has a simplistic policy to just apply the dollar levels will fall foul of AUSTRAC at some point. A dealer has to consider other factors including such things as deliberate transaction structuring to avoid ID. Three x $4999 may not necessarily be suspicious, but if they are being delivered to Afganistan, then probably not.

So even if a dealer has a stated policy of ID if transaction over $5000, they may ask for ID from you for a transaction below that if they deem the risk level to have increased. That is not something that can be put in terms and conditions.

Keep in mind that none of the IDs go to AUSTRAC, they just stay at the dealer to be accessed by Police should they be investigating some dodgy person. Cash transactions above $10,000 however do go to AUSTRAC.
 
Capital controls are just 1 part of a social engineering agenda politicians use to cover up their crimes and incompetance. Just watch as gold passes $2K/oz, it'll mean the banking system is failing and more controls will be brought in to try and prop up a dying system and maintain the politician's power.

Those of you with round tinfoil hats wait here, everyone with the pointy kind, follow me!
 
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