Bullion SMSF purchases

P

pinkmanwhite

Member
Fellow Silver Stackers,

For those who purchase physical metals for their SMSF portfolio, we would like to know what kind of products you buy:
Is there a preferred mint for SMSF purchases?
Is there a preferred weight division?
Is there a minimum quantity in a single purchase (either price or weight) that makes it worth while?

Thank you.

Pinkman White
 
Perth Mint

I like 1 ounce cast gold bars

Depends on how much is built up in my SMSF

Don't buy it from Perth Mint directly prefer going into city and purchasing it over the counter or through Ainsle in Brisbane on the phone.


For silver prefer to purchase it by the kilo


Kind Regards
non recourse
 
I like 1oz gold PM bars and 100 oz silver bars (PM or any LBMA listed). Normally 10k hits.
 
Do you guys get a better rate than retail ?
Set up any accounts ?
Have a preferred supplier ?
We're going to make a purchase in the next month or so.
 
Nucleosynthesis said:
Do you guys get a better rate than retail ?
Set up any accounts ?
Have a preferred supplier ?
We're going to make a purchase in the next month or so.
Click to expand...

We can discuss further. I have sent you a direct PM. Thank you for your inquiry.
 
10oz gold bars as they're more easily stored in a safety deposit box than silver, and this size can be bought close to spot.
 
MY SMSF uses MetalDesk:
http://bullioncapital.com/
Trade anything you like including pool, coins and bars. Same percentage trade on each one (1% for silver)
100oz bars prices are virtually identical to pool silver prices, the only difference is that with pool you can buy/sell in smaller multiples.
Coins and smaller bars have a higher premium of course.
 
Barrye said:
10oz gold bars as they're more easily stored in a safety deposit box than silver, and this size can be bought close to spot.
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If oyu are doing this long term for the SMSF why would you bother with storing them yourself?
BTW, you can store bars yourself, but you can't store coins yourself, they are deemed to be "collectible" under SMSF rules.
 
Just wondering if anyone knows of any restrictions on who you purchase PM's off when buying for your SMSF?
My father has several silver kilo bars he wants to part with and said he'd sell them to me for slightly less than spot.
Can I purchase them from him as long as I get him to make out a proper detailed receipt just like one that I'd get from a bullion dealer such as Ainslie?
 
EndTheFed2015 said:
Just wondering if anyone knows of any restrictions on who you purchase PM's off when buying for your SMSF?
My father has several silver kilo bars he wants to part with and said he'd sell them to me for slightly less than spot.
Can I purchase them from him as long as I get him to make out a proper detailed receipt just like one that I'd get from a bullion dealer such as Ainslie?
Click to expand...

I see this is your first post. Welcome to the forum.

Long story short? BAD IDEA

Buying an asset from a immediate relative for under market value? That'd send almost any SMSF auditor running off squealing like a stuck pig to ATO.

Section 109 of the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act (SIS Act) requires that all investment transactions of a SMSF must be made and maintained on an "arm's length" (i.e. commercial) basis.

Not to mention its just about outright prohibited for on the trustee transacting with Part 8 associates.

More reading and explanations at: http://www.financialplanningmagazin...king/superannuation/smsfs-and-related-parties
 
Thanks for that info. It doesn't look like there's anything restricting me from buying silver bullion bars from a complete stranger or even friend.
Where there's a will there's a way.
 
EndTheFed2015 said:
Just wondering if anyone knows of any restrictions on who you purchase PM's off when buying for your SMSF?
Click to expand...

Under normal circumstances, no. You are the manager of the SMSF so you can purchase it from a guy in a trench coat if you want.

My father has several silver kilo bars he wants to part with and said he'd sell them to me for slightly less than spot.
Can I purchase them from him as long as I get him to make out a proper detailed receipt just like one that I'd get from a bullion dealer such as Ainslie?
Click to expand...

That's a tricky one, as you are not allowed to get any personal gain from buying the bullion, and buying it from a family member sure would raise eyebrows if you got audited. i.e. you might inherent the money.
If your dad owned a company and sold it to you, then no, that is deemed to be doing business with just another business and is a legal way to get around such restrictions, but only provided a "fair market price" is paid. This applies to property and rent etc, so should apply equally to bullion trading as well I should think.
 
I'm currently stacking in two Perth Mint accounts with my total purchases being stored in the mint's vaults, using my SMSF and a separate personal account.

Questions I'm unclear on include:

1 If I opt to sell from either fund, does it mean the item/s being traded has to be sold back to the mint or is there another outlet for a sale?

2 A significant concern is government confiscation of assets. Is the likelihood reduced within an SMSF at the mint, and would a personal account be similarly vulnerable?

3 Is there an annual limit you're permitted to sell from your SMSF and from what age is this most advantageous? I'm 57

Thanks in anticipation

H
 
Harrison said:
I'm currently stacking in two Perth Mint accounts with my total purchases being stored in the mint's vaults, using my SMSF and a separate personal account.
Questions I'm unclear on include:
1 If I opt to sell from either fund, does it mean the item/s being traded has to be sold back to the mint or is there another outlet for a sale?
Click to expand...

For both you can sell to anyone (except relatives for the SMSF).

2 A significant concern is government confiscation of assets.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't be.

3 Is there an annual limit you're permitted to sell from your SMSF and from what age is this most advantageous? I'm 57
Click to expand...

You can sell any amount at any time you like, provided the funds stay in your SMSF account.
 
Harrison said:
2 A significant concern is government confiscation of assets. Is the likelihood reduced within an SMSF at the mint, and would a personal account be similarly vulnerable?
Click to expand...
It's more likely to be confiscated in your SMSF. They tell you what you can and can't invest in, who you can buy from, who you can sell to, and they'll take as much as they want in tax!!
 
SilverDJ said:
EndTheFed2015 said:
Just wondering if anyone knows of any restrictions on who you purchase PM's off when buying for your SMSF?
Click to expand...

Under normal circumstances, no. You are the manager of the SMSF so you can purchase it from a guy in a trench coat if you want.

My father has several silver kilo bars he wants to part with and said he'd sell them to me for slightly less than spot.
Can I purchase them from him as long as I get him to make out a proper detailed receipt just like one that I'd get from a bullion dealer such as Ainslie?
Click to expand...

That's a tricky one, as you are not allowed to get any personal gain from buying the bullion, and buying it from a family member sure would raise eyebrows if you got audited. i.e. you might inherent the money.
If your dad owned a company and sold it to you, then no, that is deemed to be doing business with just another business and is a legal way to get around such restrictions, but only provided a "fair market price" is paid. This applies to property and rent etc, so should apply equally to bullion trading as well I should think.
Click to expand...

If you are buying it privately do you require just a bill of sale as most private people wouldnt provide a tax invoice unless they had an abn/acn?
 
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