Bullion and Cryptos BFFs??

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inmizu

Active Member
Here's a cheery little post to push things along in these trying times.

Whether Barry or Belinda BullionBug ever buy any crypto is their business. But I wonder if bullion enthusiasts know just how many bullion bugs there are on Planet Krypto. And we have been mightily puzzled by the anger that has been directed at us. Even a decade into this tech phenomenon, with Biggie Bank and Wall Street convinced that cryptos are a thing, we're still getting Apoplectic Guy posting in all caps about 'SCAM!!'

So here's my cheery thoughts:

it is roughly the case that the day before Bitcoin was launched, the world was divided into fiat currencies and bullion. And bullion was beautiful because the Gubmint can't print it. (Crypto geeks call this a 'hard cap'.) And the Gubmint can't revoke it (like the Zimbabwean currency). And if it's physically buried in a physical coffee can in your physical asparagus patch, then it's pretty damn physically safe.

Go, bullion!!

Next: a great deal of the accusations about cryptos are accurate enough. But at the same time, a great deal of the most obvious untruths have been alllowed to circulate without rigorous analysis. Would you like to be gratuitously called a pedo (because you hold Bitcoin)? No. And neither do I.

And: notwithstanding the value of bullion, there are some very cool things that cryptos can do. Suppose your daughter ran into serious trouble in a shitbox nation. If she can find anyone who will swap Bitcoin for resources -- plane tickets, accommodation, transport, cash -- you can get Bitcoin to her in twenty minutes.

But you can't do that with bullion (or fiat).

Cryptos have unarguable utility: they are seamlessly global. And the better ones are hard-capped. They can -- once you really understand how paper wallets work -- be very very very safely stored (notwithstanding what Peter Schiff says . . . ). And there is and will continue to be a core of libertarians who will support the suite of better cryptos absolutely because it gets up Gubmint's nose.

I don't ask that cryptos and bullion walk around the mall holding hands. I ask only for a polite if grudging admission that crypto geeks -- at least the long-timer libertarians like my mob -- a c t u a l l y hold a surprising number of 'bullion bug' values.

IndiaMikeZulu
 
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I was going to send you some bitcoin as a gift for this public service, but then the power went out so I just sat there fondling my gold.
 
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' . . . a great deal of the most obvious untruths have been alllowed to circulate without rigorous analysis.'

'I was going to send you some bitcoin as a gift for this public service, but then the power went out so I just sat there fondling my gold.'

This would be a killer argument if it weren't completely wrong. All of us involved in the climate-change-mitigation movement know that all over the world there are growing numbers of 'post-grid' electrical set-ups: solar panels/wind generators coupled to battery banks. My neighbour was here just last week. He's now 'off grid': installed it all himself. Middle of a winter night? No problem: hot showers.
 
inmizu said:
' . . . a great deal of the most obvious untruths have been alllowed to circulate without rigorous analysis.'

'I was going to send you some bitcoin as a gift for this public service, but then the power went out so I just sat there fondling my gold.'

This would be a killer argument if it weren't completely wrong. All of us involved in the climate-change-mitigation movement know that all over the world there are growing numbers of 'post-grid' electrical set-ups: solar panels/wind generators coupled to battery banks. My neighbour was here just last week. He's now 'off grid': installed it all himself. Middle of a winter night? No problem: hot showers.
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I hope his local data centre is off grid as well so we can hook up and get our wallets synchronized!
 
If you’re worried about infrastructure outages (internet or power). Then the coming cashless society probably isn’t for you.

When physical cash is gone, you won’t be able to buy or sell bullion if electricity or internet are down.
 
willrocks said:
If you’re worried about infrastructure outages (internet or power). Then the coming cashless society probably isn’t for you.

When physical cash is gone, you won’t be able to buy or sell bullion if electricity or internet are down.
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I won't be using whatever cashless mumbo jumbo they come up with either if the powers down. It'll be back to trading pet rocks and barter
 
The Bank of England (BoE) is open to the possibility private cryptocurrencies may have a role in the future of money.

In a webinar hosted Tuesday, BoE analysts working on the U.K.'s central bank digital currency (CBDC) initiative said there was a distinct possibility that private companies could play a much larger part in the issuance and distribution of money.

Although the BoE has already said bitcoin (BTC) and other similar cryptocurrencies don't meet the necessary criteria to be considered money, CBDC analyst Ben Dyson said, "that doesn't mean that it's impossible for somebody to improve upon that technology and create something that much better fulfills the qualities of money."

"We've seen proposals over the last year from large technology firms, for example, to build payments systems and crypto-assets that could function more as stable money," he said.

Although they might introduce new risks into the monetary system, Dyson said private currencies could work alongside any future CBDC initiative if they offered real utility.
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https://www.coindesk.com/private-companies-could-play-role-in-cbdc-issuance-bank-of-england-says

Cashless mumbo-jumbo appears to be on the agenda.

Private currencies? Please, please, please, please, please. :)
 
Is there an established SS member here who will step up, and ask 66rounds to behave respectfully?

I got everything to learn about bullion. And SS seems like the spot to do it.

And I understand that (polite and uncontentious) content is what makes sites like this hum along. And I'm one month short of seven years of 24/7 cryptos. So I can answer a lot of your questions.

Now, this is your Digital Currencies section. If you don't want one, don't have one! But if you do have one, it's gotta be free of kindergarten stuff like 'SCAM' and 'What if the power goes out?' and 'What if the Net goes down?' Really, it's spam.

[The B o E thing? And Gates' blockchain thing? I'd love to explain this.]
 
The biggest benefit that is often touted by the crypto space is about it's ability to cross boarders undetected and to be transferred to other wallets all around the globe.

This is a benefit that I will likely never need in my lifetime. If it is at one point, can't I just open a wallet and buy Cryptos then?

Is it a known store of wealth? Or is it purely speculation? Is it even a good currency? I don't think so. A currency needs to be stable to be an effective currency. Volatility = unpredictability, and how are we meant to live off wage that could be worth half as much next week or twice as much the following month?

People love Bitcoin because of the speculative nature of the alleged asset. That's why most people are in the crypto space - not because it's a superior currency - Not because it's decentralised - Not because it can be sent overseas or carried on a USB stick across boarders.

Additionally, isn't there a good chunk of Bitcoin that has been lost? Like 20% or so?
 
STKR said:
The biggest benefit that is often touted by the crypto space is about it's ability to cross boarders undetected and to be transferred to other wallets all around the globe.

This is a benefit that I will likely never need in my lifetime. If it is at one point, can't I just open a wallet and buy Cryptos then?
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Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Yes, you can send/receive cypto across borders undetected by authorities, you just have to take some precautions if you're not using some of the privacy coins, and even then, not all privacy coins are completely secure.

STKR said:
Is it a known store of wealth? Or is it purely speculation? Is it even a good currency? I don't think so. A currency needs to be stable to be an effective currency. Volatility = unpredictability, and how are we meant to live off wage that could be worth half as much next week or twice as much the following month?
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It's all of those things, just as gold is, and to a lesser extent mainstream assets. It's just more extreme than other assets. BTC probably won't have a stable value until the final coin is mined, which is mid-way through next century, if we ever get there that is. There are projects such as Radix which claim that their cryptos will be stable as they plan to control inflation algorithmically.

STKR said:
People love Bitcoin because of the speculative nature of the alleged asset. That's why most people are in the crypto space - not because it's a superior currency - Not because it's decentralised - Not because it can be sent overseas or carried on a USB stick across boarders.
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I disagree. It's the trustless nature of the technology that excites me most. It is truly a currency of liberty. But then I'm a Libertarian so a non-libertarian may be attracted to them for other reasons.

STKR said:
Additionally, isn't there a good chunk of Bitcoin that has been lost? Like 20% or so?
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Do you have a figure on the % of bank notes people have lost over the years? ;)
 
mmm....shiney! said:
Do you have a figure on the % of bank notes people have lost over the years?
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Lol, they can make more bank notes.

mmm....shiney! said:
I disagree. It's the trustless nature of the technology that excites me most. It is truly a currency of liberty. But then I'm a Libertarian so a non-libertarian may be attracted to them for other reasons.
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Yes, that's you. Many are in the space for realised profits in their local currencies... Regardless of what other reasons they use to justify their positions.

mmm....shiney! said:
Can you rephrase your question? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Yes, you can send/receive cypto across borders undetected by authorities, you just have to take some precautions if you're not using some of the privacy coins, and even then, not all privacy coins are completely secure.
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My question was rhetorical. I was saying that I don't have a need to send money overseas or cross boarders with undetectable currency. If I did, crypto may be the path to take, but until then - why would I hold cryptos? Additionally, I would likely transfer it to the local currency for my living needs as it's more liquid. I also probably wouldn't want to hold anything in crypto unless I wanted to speculate on what its value may be in the future.
 
STKR said:
Lol, they can make more bank notes
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Yeh, but if I lose $20 the RBA isn’t going to send me a replacement. ;)

But anyway, your response indicates you see value in cryptos, it’s just that you value other things more. At least you’ve got a somewhat defensible position in regards to crypto then.

Unlike those that just label them a scam.
 
Thanks for your support

One: I will post snippets in answer to questions here, and it would be useful to have a super simple 'glossary' of types of blockchain 'instruments.'

STKR said: ↑
'Additionally, isn't there a good chunk of Bitcoin that has been lost? Like 20% or so?'

Hi, S. Yes, but it doesn't matter. Each Btc is divisible by one hundred million. But if we ever started running out of units, we'd just code up a wallet that added some more zeros.

And: There's a thing called 'Rich Lists.' These show wallet addresses and amounts, and how long since the wallet was last used. So we don't actually know if a wallet is just 'lying dormant' or whether the coin is indeed 'lost.'
 
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'Unlike those that just label them a scam.'

No reasonable long-timer crypto geek would dare to deny the almost unbelievable amount of theft and scammery that has occurred since The Boom began in late 2013. But here is a thought to foster quality discussion:

distinguish Shit-Box Scammery Coin from the theoretical notion of a globally-seamless hard-capped non-governmental instrument.

[And: 99.99% percent of folks -- and journalists -- take their Total Number of Cryptos from the indexed number on Coinmarketcap. But the total number of instruments launched (including those that piggyback on the blockchains of other instruments) is, God, who knows? Somewhere around 20,000. Launched; milked for a few bucks -- or a lot -- and abandoned.]
 
Super Simple Glossary.

To be refined as we go. No names! Just descriptions. Makes it much less confusing.

Type One: PoW -- that means mineable. That's how the distribution happens. This is pivotal. 'Hard-capped' (BTC is hard-capped): absolutely permanently limited number of units. Decentralised -- libertarian.

Type Two: PoS: all units of a PoS are mined in the first instant -- 'genesis block.' Otherwise, pretty similar to PoW. But the fact of being PoS means that the allocation is centralised. XRP, for example, has a Foundation. (Boo! Hiss!)

Type Three: whatever it is that Central Banks wanna foist on us: apart from being on a blockchain, these instruments share nothing with 'real cryptos.' Worse, they constitute an opportunity to give sneaky new life to the debasement of fiat currencies. Think about it: most Australian dollars exist in electronic form anyway. So why bother with a Central Bank Whatsit at all?! Because the Whatsit constitutes a wallop of new units of currency introduced to the system.

Type Four: the app that tracks your bullion delivery. It's a blockchain! But not a currency.

Type Five: whereas Type Ones derive their value (with or without wild volatility . . . ) 'intrinsically,' so to speak, Type Fives are when, say, you launch SS-Guy Instrument, which has 10,000 units. You claim to have 10,000 sacks of potatoes in your basement, 'backing' the units of the instrument.
On Planet Bullion, this is what I understand is called 'paper gold.'

Type Six: these instruments have mechanism of various sorts to make them stable. Anyone know what the most traded instrument is? Anyone guess Bitcoin? Nuh, It's Tether: 'USDT'. The history of such instruments is long and complex and full of drama: 'pegs' work until they don't. They're like wrought iron: unyielding until they just shatter.

Type Seven: the instruments designed to allow the creation of 'piggyback' instruments. Okay, a name: Eth. These are fantastically good or fantastically bad, depending on how much money you made or lost on them. Whatever, the technology is mind-boggling.

Type Eight: the instrument that is a business itself. Say what? So, Mary's Motel has Mary's Motel Instrument -- a blockchain. You can book a room at Mary's; pay for it with MMI from another continent; receive the door code by sms; and walk straight in when you get there. Ooodles of potential here.
 
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inmizu said:
Super Simple Glossary.

To be refined as we go. No names! Just descriptions. Makes it much less confusing.

Type One: PoW -- that means mineable. That's how the distribution happens. This is pivotal. 'Hard-capped' (BTC is hard-capped): absolutely permanently limited number of units. Decentralised -- libertarian.

Type Two: PoS: all units of a PoS are mined in the first instant -- 'genesis block.' Otherwise, pretty similar to PoW. But the fact of being PoS means that the allocation is centralised. XRP, for example, has a Foundation. (Boo! Hiss!)

Type Three: whatever it is that Central Banks wanna foist on us: apart from being on a blockchain, these instruments share nothing with 'real cryptos.' Worse, they constitute an opportunity to give sneaky new life to the debasement of fiat currencies. Think about it: most Australian dollars exist in electronic form anyway. So why bother with a Central Bank Whatsit at all?! Because the Whatsit constitutes a wallop of new units of currency introduced to the system.

Type Four: the app that tracks your bullion delivery. It's a blockchain! But not a currency.

Type Five: whereas Type Ones derive their value (with or without wild volatility . . . ) 'intrinsically,' so to speak, Type Fives are when, say, you launch SS-Guy Instrument, which has 10,000 units. You claim to have 10,000 sacks of potatoes in your basement, 'backing' the units of the instrument.
On Planet Bullion, this is what I understand is called 'paper gold.'

Type Six: these instruments have mechanism of various sorts to make them stable. Anyone know what the most traded instrument is? Anyone guess Bitcoin? Nuh, It's Tether: 'USDT'. The history of such instruments is long and complex and full of drama: 'pegs' work until they don't. They're like wrought iron: unyielding until they just shatter.

Type Seven: the instruments designed to allow the creation of 'piggyback' instruments. Okay, a name: Eth. These are fantastically good or fantastically bad, depending on how much money you made or lost on them. Whatever, the technology is mind-boggling.

Type Eight: the instrument that is a business itself. Say what? So, Mary's Motel has Mary's Motel Instrument -- a blockchain. You can book a room at Mary's; pay for it with MMI from another continent; receive the door code by sms; and walk straight in when you get there. Ooodles of potential here.
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And you expect us pet rock collectors to take this and run with it. Nine types of instruments with crazy names and functions. Some good some bad. I'm just a simple man my friend. I already have trouble handling two instruments, gold and silver. I can never decide which one to buy and hold. Imagine I have to worry about nine different TYPES of cryptos now. We weren't all born with a computer processor instead of a brain!
 
66rounds said:
I already have trouble handling two instruments, gold and silver. I can never decide which one to buy and hold. Imagine I have to worry about nine different TYPES of cryptos now.
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Each has a purpose, and yes from a speculative position these mix at times. But Bitcoin’s (type 1) role is completely different to Ethereum’s (type 7) or TUSD (type 6) or what is becoming fashionably referred to as CBDC (type 3) central bank digital currencies, which is what our fiat system is in reality without the blockchain.

Each has a different function from an investment and user’s point of view. For example BTC is simply a means to exchange value without having to rely on a third party to validate the transaction. TUSD is just a vehicle that smooths out the transition from $ to crypto and back to $ again. VDG is simply designed to track the authenticity of claims such as the origin of the tomatoes you buy in a store or your educational credentials. And the function of CBDCs is just to ... well, cement the power of the State.

Each type has a different purpose, some liberating, some benign, some affirming, some some dangerous and some outright hostile.

They’re all valid.

Well maybe not the CBDC ones. ;)
 
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