Brexit Wins- UK to Leave the EU

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raven said:
350 million per month, would do it for me !

It was actually 350 million per week that the Leave campaign were quoting.

Of course they were selective about it and didn't mention the 96 million instant rebate that Britain gets for...being special, nor did they include the 86 million that the EU pumps back into Britain in the form of grants for infrastructure and job creation in poorer areas.

Once you subtract all that stuff, Britain actually only pays around 8.5 billion a year into the EU, or about 0.45% of Britain's GDP.

The question is: does Britain get more than - let's round it up - half a percent added to it's GDP every year as a result of being in the EU? Yes, Britain gets a boost to it's economy of somewhere between 4% and 6% p.a. as a result of being in the EU.

The "membership fee" is therefore cheap and no, there isn't suddenly going to be an extra 350 million pumped into the NHS. The money will all be swallowed up supporting workers and businesses that suffer from losing privileged access to the second largest economy in the world.
 
Big A.D. said:
raven said:
350 million per month, would do it for me !

It was actually 350 million per week that the Leave campaign were quoting.

Of course they were selective about it and didn't mention the 96 million instant rebate that Britain gets for...being special, nor did they include the 86 million that the EU pumps back into Britain in the form of grants for infrastructure and job creation in poorer areas.

Once you subtract all that stuff, Britain actually only pays around 8.5 billion a year into the EU, or about 0.45% of Britain's GDP.

The question is: does Britain get more than - let's round it up - half a percent added to it's GDP every year as a result of being in the EU? Yes, Britain gets a boost to it's economy of somewhere between 4% and 6% p.a. as a result of being in the EU.

The "membership fee" is therefore cheap and no, there isn't suddenly going to be an extra 350 million pumped into the NHS. The money will all be swallowed up supporting workers and businesses that suffer from losing privileged access to the second largest economy in the world.

You still don't get it, it was nothing to do with the money for most people although 8.5 billion is a significant sum to handover to the dictators.It is to be masters of our own destiny in the world FFS & not be dictated to by unelected arrogant nobodies like Junkers. The EU has ridden rough shod over more than just the UK & their failed social experiment is finished.

Hopefully we can the get back to what we signed up for in the 1st place a pure trading block, not a political dictatorship that can't be sacked. We in the UK can see the s--t hole that is only getting worse on mainland Europe.

Once those 1 million economic migrants that Merkel so kindly let into Germany (which the German people are fuming about, Merkel has zero chance getting re elected now) get German passports which will be in a maximum of 6 years from now.They will be free to go anywhere within the EU, but now they won't be coming to the UK to stir things up.

The EU is a disaster zone of its own making & it is not going to get any better unless there is radical change, the UK has set the ball rolling.

Lets see where it stops.
 
^ yep Big A.D. still don't get it. The EU's failed social experiment with those foreign freeloader scums is what did it. FFS
 
motorbikez said:
SilverGull said:
southerncross said:
Week old data from 1600 people, what was the YouGov poll position on the vote again ? A Remain win if I recall correctly.

And Irish passport searches go up 100% of what ? 3 or 10 ?

What are Scotland and Ireland going to do, set forth on their own into the demonstrated failure of the EU taking Gibraltar and the Orkney's with them? ROFLMAO

Potato's and Oil with a few Dory and Haddock thrown in for good measure ? Lol Fish and Chip's is about all they have to offer without the U.K standing with them.

The EU is now officially Kaput, This is but the first domino to fall and the rest of the rotting Zombie corpse will not be far behind, Germany is the only mainstay left and Merkel is
political toast at the next election.

I'm hesitant to interrupt the baseless assertions/ethnic stereotypes/doomsday fear-mongering. However.....most of Ireland managed to "set forth" as an independant nation mid last century. We're just waiting on the six counties in the North, Scotland and Wales to grow up and do likewise. Like all developing children and nations, they'll get there when they get there - It's just a matter of time. Meanwhile, the "mainland" of England can stew in it's own smug misery as they slowly come to regret the raft of lost opportunities for current and future generations. As this muddle is slowly sorted through over the next two years, my only hope is that the pro-brexit fragments of britain (i.e. england) are treated with the isolation they so clearly want, as they continue to fade the "glories of empire" to a complete lack of relevance on the world stage.

Funny, Northern Ireland voted mainly down sectarian lines, Scotland if they had voted to leave the UK would already be in the same situation as Greece totally bankrupt, as the then 1st minister that odious smug toad Salmond was predicting oil at $120
per barrel to fund all of Scotland's spending plans, which within weeks of leaving would have been in tatters as oil tanked.

Without England's money Scotland would already be on the scrap heap.

If Scotland have another referendum & the people choose to leave fine get on with it that is democracy. Personally I think if they do have another referendum the result will be the same as last time with a bigger majority to stay part of the UK.
The ironic thing here is Sturgeon whines about Westminster but at least governments can be got rid of EU dictators cannot, so for Scotland it is more like out of the frying pan into the fire.

Another thing to think about what makes you think the EU will want another bankrupt country to sponge from them, I think they have enough takers & very few contributors in the EU especially as the UK who have voted to leave was one on the biggest net payers into corrupt EU coffers.

Northern Ireland did not vote down sectarian lines. Most Nationalists simply did not vote as they don't see themselves as British. The largely Unionist vote was surprisingly divided, with just under 56% voting to remain.

As for Scotland not being able to survive without England's money - that argument has been trotted out every single time a former colony has talked about leaving. The results so far.... number of former colonies that have survived after leaving the British Empire (60). Number of countries that have realised the error of their ways and then begged to be ruled again by Britain (0).

The EU already has Scotland so what they think about it is a moot point. In the independence/brexit scenario Scotland would continue to enjoy and be grateful for the benefits being part of the European community. England would leave. The English economy might do well as a result. Or it might not. In either case, at least the rest of Europe will never have to hear another English politician whinging and bleating for exceptionalism with an underlying attitude of arrogant self-entitlement.

Economic crystal ball-gazing aside, My biggest worry is for the English people. If their problems (both real and percieved) don't magically disappear once Brexit is finalised what happens next? The EU is out of the equation, so who will they blame?
 
motorbikez said:
The EU is a disaster zone of its own making & it is not going to get any better unless there is radical change, the UK has set the ball rolling.

The EU is currently enjoying the longest period of peace since Jesus Christ walked the earth.

If you want to see a proper disaster zone, there are plenty of places in the world you can visit. Reading the Daily Mail and grumbling about there being more brown people about doesn't count.
 
OPINION

IF THERE'S one thing the last three days have taught us, it's that 20-year-old social justice warriors on Twitter are smarter than 52 per cent of the British population.

If you believe the outraged media, those 17.4 million Brits who decided they were sick of the bloated, anti-democratic, corrupt European Union telling them what to do are comprised entirely of old, racist, straight white men who should be stripped of the vote because they're going to die soon.

Well, one of them did die, in fact. World War II veteran Leonard Moore's last words to his family last week were: "Post my Leave vote."

As his nephew told The Daily Mail, the former submariner "believed what he fought for wasn't what we have now". "He was so passionate about England," he said.

The same crowd who demonise the likes of AB Moore are the same people who would also like the EU referendum which had a higher voter turnout than the last UK general election to be rerun until the correct result is achieved, thanks.

Or as former Belgian Prime Minister Jean-Luc Dehaene put it in 2004 ahead of a vote on the EU constitution: "If the answer is 'no', the vote will probably have to be done again, because it absolutely has to be a 'yes'."

It's astonishing that in the wake of one of the single most emphatic displays of pure democracy in recent history, there is a concerted campaign to subvert the will of the people.

"Wake up," Labour MP David Lammy wrote. "We do not have to do this. We can stop this madness and bring this nightmare to an end through a vote in Parliament."

Apparently, democracy is only a good thing when it goes your way anything else is "madness".

Daniel Hannan, a Member of European Parliament who has campaigned his entire career for the abolition of his own job, summed up Lammy's position: "Little people! You have been misled! We, your betters, will now act in your true interests!"

Writing in The Sun on the weekend, Mr Hannan said "Project Sneer" was doomed to fail and that British voters, threatened with "Armageddon", reacted with "calm, common sense and courage".

"When they started, Leave was 20 points behind in the polls," he wrote. "But they stuck to a simple message: that the British people should be able to control their own affairs.

"It's amazing how often that message was deliberately distorted. Listening to the other side, you'd think that the Leave campaign was anti-foreigner or anti-immigrant.

"What Remainers didn't, and still don't, understand is that it was precisely this snotty attitude that pushed many waverers into backing Leave."

While immigration was a central issue and why wouldn't it be when EU laws prevent the UK from deporting foreign criminals a ComRes poll found sovereignty was a bigger issue for Leave voters (53 per cent) than immigration (34 per cent).

Meanwhile, the barrage of anti-Brexit lines as the media attempts to spin the "second referendum" narrative is becoming ridiculous. (The fact that 99 per cent of the media agrees Brexit is The Worst Thing Ever should be a pretty good indication Brits made the right choice.)

First it was, British people are searching 'What is the EU' on Google! Get it? They didn't even know what the EU was, how could they possibly vote to leave? Look how stupid they are!

This is the same, completely apolitical Google that manipulates search results to remove negative Hillary Clinton articles while sending Donald Trump fundraising emails to spam folders.

Then came the protest angle. These days all it takes for a bleeding-heart headline ('Young voters furious, depressed'!) is 20 blue-haired millennials waving signs crying about how unfair it all is.

Yes, 75 per cent of 18- to 24-year-olds voted Remain but only 36 per cent of them actually bothered to turn up. "But surely the responsibility to motivate and engage young people is on the shoulders of politicians!" whined one young socialist on Twitter. "Young people feel left behind."

Sorry, but if munching pingers in the mud at Glastos is more important than your working holiday in France, that's your problem.

Now the line is, lots of people who voted to leave didn't actually want to leave, whoopsie daisy, just kidding, can we please have another go? They're calling that one "Bregret" how good is that? Rolls right off the tongue.

To be fair, a ComRes poll found eight per cent of Leave voters are "unhappy" that Britain will leave the EU while four per cent of Remain voters are actually "happy" at the outcome. But why should that matter? They had 41 years to make up their minds.
(Snip)

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...g/news-story/5ff55c3fcd1e21944bcd1a01d2d40198
 
Big A.D. said:
motorbikez said:
The EU is a disaster zone of its own making & it is not going to get any better unless there is radical change, the UK has set the ball rolling.

The EU is currently enjoying the longest period of peace since Jesus Christ walked the earth.


Enjoying?? Living with millions of Islamic foreigner freeloader scums that only divide and cause nothing but trouble is not living in peace but misery.

A wise old man foretold that "And it will be that the fanatics of Islam will rise up against the countries of Europe and all will shake and quiver. England will be conquered and thrown down to the lowest level of misery."

He was right, you are wrong. :P
 
For what it's worth, I don't think Britain should have another referendum, nor do I think parliament should refuse to pass the legislation allowing them to leave.

It was a democratic poll and the British people voted to leave.

That said, celebrating the British people's democratic right to do something stupid just doesn't seem worth being happy about.
 
Skyrocket said:
Big A.D. said:
motorbikez said:
The EU is a disaster zone of its own making & it is not going to get any better unless there is radical change, the UK has set the ball rolling.

The EU is currently enjoying the longest period of peace since Jesus Christ walked the earth.


Enjoying?? Living with millions of Islamic foreigner freeloader scums that only divide and cause nothing but trouble is not living in peace but misery.

You think hosting refugees fleeing a war is worse than actually being in a war yourself?

Dude, you need to get a grip.
 
Big A.D. said:
The EU is currently enjoying the longest period of peace since Jesus Christ walked the earth.

I think you're in denial.

As we all concede, wars are waged economically now, with the odd sideshow thrown in to appease the military manufacturing industry and nationalists. Just because there hasn't been a war between European States since the inception of the European Community doesn't mean that the inception of the European Community brought peace. We are involved in less wars now than ever before, and the reason for that is economics - not Brussels. It's trade, capitalism and as a result the increasing quality of life that reduces the need to conflict over resources that bring peace.

Peace and harmony brought about by a bureaucrat's ballpoint pen is never going to replace the harmony that mutually beneficial trade brings.

The Uber State is in turmoil, you should be celebrating instead of lambasting.

SilverGull said:
Economic crystal ball-gazing aside, My biggest worry is for the English people. If their problems (both real and percieved) don't magically disappear once Brexit is finalised what happens next?

The Brexit is the excuse the central planners have been hoping for. :/
 
For motorbikez and others Brits who voted leave - I absolutely respect your democratic right for the Brtiish people to vote to be masters of your own destiny.

Now you have ask yourselves, where's the plan for what you're going next - the so-called 'Leave plan'? Apparently there isn't one - Boris and the rest of the clowns who agitated for 'Leave' haven't got a Brexit plan, presumably because they didn't think they'd need one! These are the idiots now in charge of your country. FFS!
 
Big A.D. said:
Skyrocket said:
Big A.D. said:
The EU is currently enjoying the longest period of peace since Jesus Christ walked the earth.


Enjoying?? Living with millions of Islamic foreigner freeloader scums that only divide and cause nothing but trouble is not living in peace but misery.

You think hosting refugees fleeing a war is worse than actually being in a war yourself?

Dude, you need to get a grip.

What refugees? Oh you mean the ones they now calling economic migrants after everyone realized they are not refugees.

Maybe you need to get a grip on this one.
 
Oh wow - this was written on Weds 22nd, *before* the Brexit vote - it's remarkably prescient!

Nick Clegg: what you will wake up to if we vote to Leave

Are you still undecided? Are you someone who pummelled by weeks of claim and counter-claim has been left exhausted and annoyed? Have you been looking for answers, yet all you've encountered are insults and exaggeration?

Maybe you're so fed up you think to hell with it, let's throw caution to the wind and vote Brexit. Imagine, however, what happens next. Imagine how you will feel on 24 June?

Having woken on Friday to the news we're quitting the EU, you will assume that those who persuaded you to take that leap of faith have a plan about what to do next.

So imagine how dismayed you will feel when you discover, instead, that Nigel Farage, Michael Gove and Boris Johnson can't agree among themselves what life outside the EU looks like? They may be united by a ferocious loathing of the EU, but they have no shared plan for the future.

Gridlock

So you will look towards our leaders in Westminster to sort out the mess. Instead, they argue among themselves: the Conservatives descend into a bloody leadership election; Parliament enters years of constitutional gridlock trying to extricate itself from the intricate legal stitching which binds us to the EU and gives us access to world markets.

Then you discover just how unprepared the Government is that there simply aren't enough trade negotiators in Whitehall, for instance, with the expertise to renegotiate 50 or so international trade accords.

As politicians bicker, you become increasingly unnerved by what's happening in the economy, too: overseas investors take fright; money flows out of the country; our credit rating is slashed; the interest on our borrowing goes up; unemployment rises; sterling tanks; prices in the shops go up.

Nicola Sturgeon soon announces that preparations have started for a second independence referendum, claiming it is the only way to keep Scotland in the EU. And this time most commentators think that she will win.

Still, at least they will finally sort out our borders, right? After all, ending mass immigration was the Brexiteers biggest claim of all.

So imagine how you'll feel when you discover that they don't have a plan for that either? Some argue for a new land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to stop EU immigrants coming in through the "back door". Others that a new border would harm the peace in Northern Ireland. The Australian points system which they advocate is no solution either it has led to immigration levels twice as high as in the UK.

Panic

Panic starts to spread among the 1.3 million Brits who live, study and retire elsewhere in the EU. Spanish politicians start to complain about paying for public services used by British pensioners. If we start excluding Spanish doctors and nurses, why should they keep paying for our pensioners?

And then there's that faintly queasy feeling you get when you see Donald Trump on the TV, visiting the UK on Friday, declaring his joy at the Brexit vote.

Meanwhile Angela Merkel invites President Obama to an emergency summit to discuss the fallout the UK is, of course, excluded from what soon emerges as the new "special relationship" between the US and Germany.

The Brexiteers say you will "regain control". But it won't feel like that. Instead, the economy lurches to recession; there's upheaval in Westminster; no plan to allay concerns about immigration; another referendum in Scotland; a steep slide in Britain's standing in the world.

Our wonderful country adrift not in control. And for what? Nigel, Michael and Boris still won't be able to tell you why.

Source: https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/
 
Big A.D. said:
...
The EU is currently enjoying the longest period of peace since ...
...

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(Sorry... couldn't resist)

winter-is-coming-weather-gif.gif
 
mmm....shiney! said:
Big A.D. said:
The EU is currently enjoying the longest period of peace since Jesus Christ walked the earth.

I think you're in denial.

As we all concede, wars are waged economically now, with the odd sideshow thrown in to appease the military manufacturing industry and nationalists. Just because there hasn't been a war between European States since the inception of the European Community doesn't mean that the inception of the European Community brought peace. We are involved in less wars now than ever before, and the reason for that is economics - not Brussels. It's trade, capitalism and as a result the increasing quality of life that reduces the need to conflict over resources that bring peace.

Peace and harmony brought about by a bureaucrat's ballpoint pen is never going to replace the harmony that mutually beneficial trade brings.

You are 100% right, but you seem to be missing the point that after WWII people understood mutually beneficial trade would help prevent wars and so they set about creating a trade bock across Europe to facilitate exactly that.

Getting 28 countries that have spent the last 2000-odd years being in various states of war with one another was never going to happen without a lot of diplomacy and bureaucracy.

Yeah, bureaucracy sucks, but Europe seems to have been better off employing bureaucrats rather than soldiers. Before now, the previous attempts at uniting Europe were made by Adolf Hitler, Emperor Charlemagne (9th Century) and the Romans under Trajan.
 
At least Sir Humphrey had a plan :D

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE[/youtube]
 
Boris Johnson's full op-ed, originally posted in The Telegraph :-

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe and always will be

This EU referendum has been the most extraordinary political event of our lifetime. Never in our history have so many people been asked to decide a big question about the nation's future. Never have so many thought so deeply, or wrestled so hard with their consciences, in an effort to come up with the right answer.

It has been a gruelling campaign in which we have seen divisions between family and friends and colleagues sometimes entirely amicable, sometimes, alas, less so. In the end, there was a clear result. More than 17 million people voted to leave the EU more than have ever assented to any proposition in our democratic history. Some now cast doubt on their motives, or even on their understanding of what was at stake.

It is said that those who voted Leave were mainly driven by anxieties about immigration. I do not believe that is so. After meeting thousands of people in the course of the campaign, I can tell you that the number one issue was control a sense that British democracy was being undermined by the EU system, and that we should restore to the people that vital power: to kick out their rulers at elections, and to choose new ones.

I believe that millions of people who voted Leave were also inspired by the belief that Britain is a great country, and that outside the job-destroying coils of EU bureaucracy we can survive and thrive as never before. I think that they are right in their analysis, and right in their choice. And yet we who agreed with this majority verdict must accept that it was not entirely overwhelming.

There were more than 16 million who wanted to remain. They are our neighbours, brothers and sisters who did what they passionately believe was right. In a democracy majorities may decide but everyone is of equal value. We who are part of this narrow majority must do everything we can to reassure the Remainers. We must reach out, we must heal, we must build bridges because it is clear that some have feelings of dismay, and of loss, and confusion.

I believe that this climate of apprehension is understandable, given what people were told during the campaign, but based on a profound misunderstanding about what has really taken place. At home and abroad, the negative consequences are being wildly overdone, and the upside is being ignored. The stock market is way above its level of last autumn; the pound remains higher than it was in 2013 and 2014.

The economy is in good hands. Most sensible people can see that Bank of England governor Mark Carney has done a superb job and now that the referendum is over, he will be able to continue his work without being in the political firing-line. Thanks in large part to the reforms put in place by David Cameron and George Osborne, the fundamentals of the UK economy are outstandingly strong a dynamic and outward-looking economy with an ever-improving skills base, and with a big lead in some of the key growth sectors of the 21st century.

We should be incredibly proud and positive about the UK, and what it can now achieve. And we will achieve those things together, with all four nations united. We had one Scotland referendum in 2014, and I do not detect any real appetite to have another one soon; and it goes without saying that we are much better together in forging a new and better relationship with the EU based on free trade and partnership, rather than a federal system.

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be. There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment. EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI the BDI has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.

The only change and it will not come in any great rush is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU's extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal. This will bring not threats, but golden opportunities for this country to pass laws and set taxes according to the needs of the UK.

Yes, the Government will be able to take back democratic control of immigration policy, with a balanced and humane points-based system to suit the needs of business and industry. Yes, there will be a substantial sum of money which we will no longer send to Brussels, but which could be used on priorities such as the NHS. Yes, we will be able to do free trade deals with the growth economies of the world in a way that is currently forbidden.

There is every cause for optimism; a Britain rebooted, reset, renewed and able to engage with the whole world. This was a seismic campaign whose lessons must be learnt by politicians at home and abroad. We heard the voices of millions of the forgotten people, who have seen no real increase in their incomes, while FTSE-100 chiefs now earn 150 times the average pay of their employees. We must pursue actively the one-nation policies that are among David Cameron's fine legacy, such as his campaigns on the Living Wage and Life Chances. There is no doubt that many were speaking up for themselves.

But they were also speaking up for democracy, and the verdict of history will be that the British people got it right.

Seems to me he has a bit of an idea ;)
 
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