BITCON... WHY its totally FLAWED

For those (like me) who see Bitcoin as a viable form of money, these are reasonable arguments about the potential of virtual currencies which have no material backing versus material currencies which can be traded virtually.

Nikolay Gertchev said:
First, at any given moment, the level of technological development is not uniform for all individuals within the same (national) economy. While some have access to the latest technology in a given field of activity, others prefer to stick to older versions. This is definitely due to the cost of replacing existing capital goods, but also to individual preferences, and sometimes to personal wealth. Consequently, bitcoins could become money only at the point when the technology that embodies them becomes commonly used. We are not there yet.

Second, an economy in which the medium of exchange is dependent so much upon the widespread use of a specific technology would be extremely vulnerable. Technologies are not given; they are the result of individual choices with respect to capital accumulation and allocation that must be made time and again, and are subject to reversal. Then, if the medium-of-exchange-linked technology is abandoned, because for instance no sufficient savings are available any longer, the economy will have to find another medium of exchange. This transition phase might then involve significant disruptions in the structure of production. A technology-linked medium of exchange does not provide enough flexibility to economic relations and might be viewed as complicating, rather than facilitating, some actions, such as shifting from one technology to another. This is a significant drawback of any virtual currency.
:
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In conclusion, virtual monies, of which bitcoins seem to be the most perfected specimen up to date, do not allow acting individuals to manage the uncertainty of the future as well as material monies do. They could serve to intermediate exchanges among those who invest in the technology that creates them, stores them, and transfers them. Nevertheless, they could never achieve that degree of universality and flexibility that material monies carry with them by nature. Thus, on the free market, commodity monies, and presumably gold and silver, still have a great comparative advantage.
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http://www.mises.org/daily/6399/The-Moneyness-of-Bitcoins
 
Morning virtual currency stackers,

Last night I dedicated one of my cards (7970Ghz) to PPCoin mining. On Coinotron at around 660Mh/s I am making in the vicinity of 70~ coins per day from mining them.

Obviously, LtC has had all the attention now - so instead of following the crowd, I've tried to figure out what will be next for cryptos, and a quick jump in, jump out profit.

Through research, BTC-e (the biggest LtC exchange at present, and also large exchange for BtC/NmC/NvC) is actually introducing FRI/BTC and PPC/BTC pairs in the not too distant future. This will bring about a lot greater market exposure for PPCoin as there's some 10k-15k users on just BTC-e.

PPCoin is currently being traded on Vircurex, which is a smallish exchange. This is the order books most recent entries:

1482_btcppc.png


Last night, when I first started mining these, it was approximately 0.0015 (BTC/PPC), and it has since gone up to the 0.00248 you see.
With BTC/PPC @ 0.0015 and a BTC worth $125~ USD, this makes one PPC approximately $0.1875 last night and $0.31 this morning. Considering I can get 70 of these per day on a single card, that's $21~ per day (if I could sell them, which I don't think I'd be able to do easily).

My hope is that I can get enough of these so that if they hit BTC-e with a similar price, the benefits of mining these will far outweigh cost and will provide better income.

Any input?
 
Also:

1482_miningrig.jpg


Mining rig porn anyone?
I count 75 graphics cards....

If they were all 7970s, he'd be getting 320 LtC per day.
 
willrocks said:
pro$pector said:
I find it rather hilarious how many people throw tulips around as the ultimate bubble.
Click to expand...

In my experience people who throw around the "tulip mania" bubble message, are normally a bit sour because they missed out.
Click to expand...

I don't know how old you are but if you were around in 1999 and 2000 to experience the tech bubble you would see the similarities with this bit coin show

Parabolic price charts

People clambering to get on board at any price so they don't miss out

Companies of no value suddenly worth billions (eg pets.com)

There were people warning of that bubble (check out itulip.com)


If you got on board early, well done, no sour grapes here
I would simply not get involved in this game because I have no idea who is behind it all and that is too much risk for me

Good luck timing your exit - past manias show it is very difficult to get out at the top
 
I mined all night on BTC, managed to get 0.007 coins on a 7850.

Probably take 100 days to get 0.1 coins so I can get a payout of 0.1 coin.

I converted over to LTC, I managed to get 0.1 coin in 3 hours. Looking forward to see it in my wallet tonight lol.

All I am risking at the moment is some electricity, I ain't throwing any money at these crypto currencies though.

Slam
 
trew said:
willrocks said:
pro$pector said:
I find it rather hilarious how many people throw tulips around as the ultimate bubble.
Click to expand...

In my experience people who throw around the "tulip mania" bubble message, are normally a bit sour because they missed out.
Click to expand...

I don't know how old you are but if you were around in 1999 and 2000 to experience the tech bubble you would see the similarities with this bit coin show

Parabolic price charts

People clambering to get on board at any price so they don't miss out

Companies of no value suddenly worth billions (eg pets.com)

There were people warning of that bubble (check out itulip.com)


If you got on board early, well done, no sour grapes here
I would simply not get involved in this game because I have no idea who is behind it all and that is too much risk for me

Good luck timing your exit - past manias show it is very difficult to get out at the top
Click to expand...

The difference at the moment is that it was an easy market to get into, anyone and everyone could buy shares, it was on the news and current affairs shows quite often, etc, etc.

Mainstream coverage of bitcoin still contains quite a bit of fear-mongering and is fairly uncommon. They aren't enthusiastic about them the same way they were for dotcom or property.

To me, this parabolic rise was the next wave of people coming in. You had the early adopters, now a whole bunch more people plunged in and it seems to be stabilising around 130-140 (at the moment at least). There should now be more capital injection in the bitcoin economy, that is, the businesses that surround it, and at some point it will be ready for the next wave of people. That's my guess anyway.
 
RetardedMonkey said:
Morning virtual currency stackers,

Last night I dedicated one of my cards (7970Ghz) to PPCoin mining. On Coinotron at around 660Mh/s I am making in the vicinity of 70~ coins per day from mining them.

Obviously, LtC has had all the attention now - so instead of following the crowd, I've tried to figure out what will be next for cryptos, and a quick jump in, jump out profit.

Through research, BTC-e (the biggest LtC exchange at present, and also large exchange for BtC/NmC/NvC) is actually introducing FRI/BTC and PPC/BTC pairs in the not too distant future. This will bring about a lot greater market exposure for PPCoin as there's some 10k-15k users on just BTC-e.

PPCoin is currently being traded on Vircurex, which is a smallish exchange. This is the order books most recent entries:

http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1482_btcppc.png

Last night, when I first started mining these, it was approximately 0.0015 (BTC/PPC), and it has since gone up to the 0.00248 you see.
With BTC/PPC @ 0.0015 and a BTC worth $125~ USD, this makes one PPC approximately $0.1875 last night and $0.31 this morning. Considering I can get 70 of these per day on a single card, that's $21~ per day (if I could sell them, which I don't think I'd be able to do easily).

My hope is that I can get enough of these so that if they hit BTC-e with a similar price, the benefits of mining these will far outweigh cost and will provide better income.

Any input?
Click to expand...

I am getting another 7970 delivered next week that I will be putting on PPCoin, air cooled card so PPCoin should be a little easier on it. Probably mine about 1000 coins if you say you can mine 70 a day. After that I might switch it back to litecoin.

Litecoin price looks to be trying to crack the $5 mark today.

Serious envy of the rack of graphics cards. Would be good for a cold Siberian winter.
 
Noppy said:
I am getting another 7970 delivered next week that I will be putting on PPCoin, air cooled card so PPCoin should be a little easier on it. Probably mine about 1000 coins if you say you can mine 70 a day. After that I might switch it back to litecoin.
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I saw you snap that up on OCAU - very quick haha
 
My two litecoin mining graphics cards have stopped though according to the pool. I'll have to set them up properly this weekend to rejoin the pool.
 
RetardedMonkey said:
Noppy said:
I am getting another 7970 delivered next week that I will be putting on PPCoin, air cooled card so PPCoin should be a little easier on it. Probably mine about 1000 coins if you say you can mine 70 a day. After that I might switch it back to litecoin.
Click to expand...
I saw you snap that up on OCAU - very quick haha
Click to expand...

Yeh man so lucky I had to wake up at 1am to pick my missus up from the train station got their and the train wasn't their yet so I thought I would check ocau. Thought I was having a dream when I saw it, then i mistyped instant about 4 times. She should pay for herself fairly quickly.
 
RetardedMonkey said:
Henry Wartooth said:
How many Bitcoins could you mine with a super computer? What about a quantum computer?
Click to expand...
One thing I've read with regards to supercomputers is that the most powerful one in the world is producing about 5000 TFLOPS.

The entire Bitcoin network as of mid 2011 was producing 60,000 TFLOPS (equiv)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7675.20
Click to expand...


They're a little bit faster than that:

http://www.top500.org/lists/2012/11/

and they can do alot more than just simple hashing but your point is essentially correct.

Any thoughts on the new ASIC miners or FPGA miners, looks like they will push people using graphics cards out of the market?
 
I know this has been covered about a hundred times already, but just to confirm;

The easiest way for me to get some LTC / NMC is to sign up with BTC-E, and transfer BTC to the account then convert/trade to the others - correct?
 
2ds said:
Any thoughts on the new ASIC miners or FPGA miners, looks like they will push people using graphics cards out of the market?
Click to expand...

I'm looking into buying an ASIC (never mined before so knowledge is rusty), but most of the sites I have found so far you need to backorder as they are sold out currently, must be quite a few out there already...
 
2ds said:
They're a little bit faster than that:

http://www.top500.org/lists/2012/11/

and they can do alot more than just simple hashing but your point is essentially correct.

Any thoughts on the new ASIC miners or FPGA miners, looks like they will push people using graphics cards out of the market?
Click to expand...
I thought that was wrong lol.

Was fairly sure we were in the high petaflops range.
 
pro$pector said:
I'm looking into buying an ASIC (never mined before so knowledge is rusty), but most of the sites I have found so far you need to backorder as they are sold out currently, must be quite a few out there already...
Click to expand...
Nope, in fact there's barely any ASICs out there.

They're on backorder because they don't really exist yet haha
 
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