BITCON... WHY its totally FLAWED

willrocks said:
To shutdown Bitcoin they'd need to shut down the internet.
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Bitcoin mining relies on processing power. Guess who has the most computing power in the world? The government. NSA etc etc would have heaps of computing power. Not the basement kids with their HD7970 and quad cores.

The government can effectively screw the bitcoin system (by hoarding bitcoins for example) such that they end up getting most of the new bitcoins, if they actually gave a shit.
 
No idea what you're talking about. All I'm saying is that to kill Bitcoin they don't need to kill the internet.
 
I was referring to Liberty Mint as in the US govt ordered a cease and decist after a raid seizing all property.. would this not shut down bitcoin if all there equipment were to be siezed.. that was my point of reference..

Also.. my key point of its scarcity is WHO IS ENFORCING THIS.. what is stopping them from UPPING the rate at which they are farmed/mined? and as i alluded to earlier like the debt ceiling.. any self resrticted (like the perth mint) implementation can be reneged on and changed to suit there intentions of what i consider to be PROFIT AMXIMISATION.. yes to hear a valid response on this.. and my reasoning was its hard enough for a goverment entity to stick to there guns IE: Perth Mint or US congress.. let a lone an individual impsing this on himself..
 
thatguy said:
grinners said:
The cost is running a computer for weeks on end to mine a coin.

The people who criticise BitCoins seem to know the least about it :S

*I do not, nor have ever, owned a single BitCoin, but I think the idea is interesting.
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Step 1:
Approach IBM and ask them hire this for a day
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...r.jpg/800px-IBM_Blue_Gene_P_supercomputer.jpg
Step 2:
Hire software engineers to write a decoder to work on the bit coin encryption
Step 3:
Work out how many bitcoins can be mined in the 1 day, work out how much the rent the super computer and the write the program will cost. Divide one by the other and if lower the what a bitcoins is selling for at the moment proceed
Step 4:
Sell bit coins and pay over heads and invest profit

OR

buy some 1oz kooks :P
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HI Wilrocks,,,, im reffering to THEIR equipment (see above post)... GGGGGGGGGGGGEEEEZZZ>... i know what P2P is OK!!!!! sheesh!

Apparently Bitcoin has EXTREMLY EXPENSIVE supercomputer.... DO YOU UNDERSTAND GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, all that needs to happen is for this to be siezed, right?

If not then whats this schitt about MASSIVE set-up costs and why anyone cant emulate it? Cant have it boths ways.. EITHER a super comp OR none> which one?

1for1
 
It really helps 1for1 if you actually read up on bitcoin. Bitcoin is a distributed network of computers (ie miners, I prefer transaction validators because that's what they are doing) of varying sizes which together have a massive computing power which is difficult for any one computer to gain the majority of transaction validation work.
 
willrocks said:
Dogmatix said:
Making something illegal, forces it onto the black market. A black market does not provide the widest distribution and use of such a currency, which would stifle it.
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True, however because Bitcoin is global, to be effective in stifling it they would need to make it illegal internationally.

Say it was illegal in country A, yet not in country B,C, or D. Nothing stops me having a bank account in country B,C, or D and doing Bitcoin transactions from there, or over the internet from country A.
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I believe the US has been very successful at making things illegal internationally.

Edit: And to add - if Country B, C, or D prefer not to have economic sanctions against them by the other countries the US Govt can influence, then they might want to play along.

I'm not saying it is a certainty, but rather that if Bitcoin increases in popularity, but cannot be taxed, the US Govt will take a dim view of it no doubt.
 
bron suchecki said:
It really helps 1for1 if you actually read up on bitcoin. Bitcoin is a distributed network of computers (ie miners, I prefer transaction validators because that's what they are doing) of varying sizes which together have a massive computing power which is difficult for any one computer to gain the majority of transaction validation work.
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DOH, i quoted someone else who implied it involved a super computer... please read all the posts.

If we have established there is no core computer and its all p2p private end users then what are the barriers to entry? Why are there not multiple similar digital currencies? If anyone can establish a similar currency then won't any additonal competitors dilute the worth of each similar product as demand for such "money" is surely finite?

1for1
 
1for1 said:
bron suchecki said:
It really helps 1for1 if you actually read up on bitcoin. Bitcoin is a distributed network of computers (ie miners, I prefer transaction validators because that's what they are doing) of varying sizes which together have a massive computing power which is difficult for any one computer to gain the majority of transaction validation work.
Click to expand...

DOH, i quoted someone else who implied it involved a super computer... please read all the posts.

If we have established there is no core computer and its all p2p private end users then what are the barriers to entry? Why are there not multiple similar digital currencies? If anyone can establish a similar currency then won't any additonal competitors dilute the worth of each similar product as demand for such "money" is surely finite?

1for1
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That is the beauty... it is a free market, ain't no one forcing anyone to use Bitcoins but the fundementals. Bitcoins HAS to compete with USD, facebucks, silver, shells etc.. it must bring something to the floor that the other don't. Does it bring anything to the floor the others don't? DYODD
 
thatguy said:
1for1 said:
bron suchecki said:
It really helps 1for1 if you actually read up on bitcoin. Bitcoin is a distributed network of computers (ie miners, I prefer transaction validators because that's what they are doing) of varying sizes which together have a massive computing power which is difficult for any one computer to gain the majority of transaction validation work.
Click to expand...

DOH, i quoted someone else who implied it involved a super computer... please read all the posts.

If we have established there is no core computer and its all p2p private end users then what are the barriers to entry? Why are there not multiple similar digital currencies? If anyone can establish a similar currency then won't any additonal competitors dilute the worth of each similar product as demand for such "money" is surely finite?

1for1
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That is the beauty... it is a free market, ain't no one forcing anyone to use Bitcoins but the fundementals. Bitcoins HAS to compete with USD, facebucks, silver, shells etc.. it must bring something to the floor that the other don't. Does it bring anything to the floor the others don't? DYODD
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Ok i am starting to see some positives and after using it for a week or so i am wondering a few things from people using it...

does it use much bandwidth, i basically installed the app on all my comps and it quietly mines in the background.. the real winners are just the people that have the fastest comps to mine more bitcoins?

About how long does it take a standardish comp to mine a bitcoin? Seems like forever.. i am still skeptical about someone being able to generate say "1 million bitcoins" using some hack?

I think it does have a standard of differentiation that seperates it from other moneys.. i am actually liking if i have just as much chance of mining as everyone else... it seems actually very fair with far more equality than i intially realised.. i will definitely study this in more detail.

thanks,

1for1
 
1for1,

I am running the miner on 3 PC's, my gaming machine at home, my home laptop that I surf this site with every night, and my computer that is connected to my TV for watching movies, and right now I am getting around .08 to .1 Bitcoins a day. Is that a lot, no, but on the flip side over at this site:

http://coinabul.com/silver/index.php/silver-sorted-by-weight.html?p=2

I can get a troy ounce at the current prices of 3.2192 Bitcoins.

So, that means about every 32 to 41 days I can get an ounce of silver. Now I might be different but my PC's are on ALL the time. I remote into them from work to test out applications that we need to test at the office so I always have them running. This is just a way for them to do something while running that might generate me some silver. I am not stacking Bitcoins at all, or holding onto a bunch in thinking it will take over the world economy. What I am doing is trying them out and if I get some stackers out of it, then I will keep doing it.

On a unrelated note, I found another site that you can run a app that tests connections and speeds for websites, it is the same thought as the miner, it runs in the background and you get a trickling of money, but it is in USD and pays to Paypal. I have since loaded that on all my PC's also. I figured I might as well use the processors if they are running, and the electricity is going to be used either way, this just might offset the cost. If you want to sign up for it, you can go here: GomezPeerZone
 
Ryaneod, unless you are running a server or pirating I doubt you would have your computers running 24 hours if it were not for folding (certificates) or bitcoins.

Have you calculated the hardware costs and electricity and worked out if it has been worth the trouble?

Can only imagine ppb concentration of negative charged ionized particles in the air/atmosphere in your home. :lol:
Dust everywhere.
Stick a few trays of water under your windows to help combat negative ions by positively charging them.
 
W&F, I actually do run them 24-7 . . . and actually yes there are a couple servers in my house too, there is also an entire Cisco network and a Call Manager phone switch running there. (You don't know what I do for a living so assuming is the problem)

The calculation is pretty easy, would they already be running, yes, so I am gaining something that I wasn't getting before when they were running just the same, so that would make it all profit.

Nothing that dusting and opening the windows up can't take care of. Living on a large lake is nice with the cool breeze off the water.
 
Thanks Ryaneod, very helpful post.. i am thinking along the same lines..

And another question.. how much variation have you found in a slow comp vs a fully speced out one?

Am i wasting my time on my lappy's?

cheers mate.. ps... i might give that other one a shot.. free and paypal and us$ seem sweet to me..

1for1
 
Ryaneod said:
You don't know what I do for a living so assuming is the problem
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Problem? You ASSUME so.
You uptight? Yes.
Did I assume? Yes.
Was I right? Yes.
Is that wrong? No.
Why? Cause, it was not concluding nor passing judgment (i.e. sentencing/condemning).
:cool:
Offended by me doubting a legitimate reason to have a computer running 24/7 unless server related or pirating, and I was right.

Kick up a cessation of hostilities stink with another. Not interested in any truce with someone whom comes to conclusions based on assumptions, and that is where we differ, hypocrite.

Yep, I can see it now; you must be gullible, cause you never doubt. :lol:


P.s. I did not actually intend to offend. Was not my objective with you. Bless you.
-----------------
 
Water&Food said:
Offended by me doubting a legitimate reason to have a computer running 24/7 unless server related or pirating, and I was right.
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The PC's aren't server related, the Servers are server related. The PC's also aren't pirating, the do however do load testing and thread testing on written code to see if there is memory leaks and all sorts of other odd's and in's. Reflection Server, TFTP Server, etc.
 
1for1 said:
Thanks Ryaneod, very helpful post.. i am thinking along the same lines..

And another question.. how much variation have you found in a slow comp vs a fully speced out one?

Am i wasting my time on my lappy's?

cheers mate.. ps... i might give that other one a shot.. free and paypal and us$ seem sweet to me..

1for1
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1for1,

I have found a bit of variation between PC's. Mind you I do NOT have a fully speced out rig, but my gaming PC runs circles around the PC I have hooked up to my TV for movies. Actually my Laptop is closer to my gaming rig than it is the Dell Zino hooked to my TV. So all in all the laptop isn't a time waster, at least the one I am running it on.
 
Water&Food said:
Ryaneod, are you using any workstation gpus, or is all of your computers using gaming gpus (or accelerators)?
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My gaming machine is the only PC I have that I have specifically upgrade the graphics card on (Was for WoW, Diablo 3, etc), everything else is running what came installed from the vendor or on board.
 
I think a lot of people miss the point of Bitcoin when they criticise it.

Here's the way I see it. It's the first type of this thing that has come along (tom my knowledge). Whether it takes off or not is irrelevant, I think. The genie is out of the bottle. Either Bitcoin will be refined (if necessary) or better ideas working on the same sort of principles will come along. Ultimately, the govt currencies will become less and less attractive. The reason I think this will happen is because this is a truly global world and countries only have jurisdiction of the currencies within their own borders and thus are restricted when it comes to innovation. This is true of other aspects of life too.

There won't be a world govt nor a world central bank so ultimately people will gravitate to what will eventually be superior ways of making transactions.

The govt may be able to stop these things now but ultimately they will be outwitted. They always are. Much smarter and more motivated people in the real world than there is in govt.
 
hawkeye said:
I think a lot of people miss the point of Bitcoin when they criticise it.
Whether it takes off or not is irrelevant, I think. The genie is out of the bottle. Either Bitcoin will be refined (if necessary) or better ideas working on the same sort of principles will come along.
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+1

The "physical silver only" mentality got old and nauseating years ago.
When stellaconcepts sold silver at $23ish and $48ish and got heaps of grief from the 'physical silver' YT community about it, I was revolted by the vindictive cult mentality. I stepped back.
 
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