Beware of scammers trying to sell Libertads

mmissinglink

mmissinglink

Active Member
I see this happening again on eBay...crooks and scammers knowingly trying to pass off common bullion kilo Libertads as limited mintage PL kilo Libertads. How do I know they are knowingly trying to scam buyers? Because I've contacted a couple of these sellers a while back informing them that what they are selling isn't what they are presenting.


So, for example, this crooked seller has this auction up: item # 351825163102 .

Many and hopefully most people who buy Libertads know that for the kilo silver Libertad there are 2 versions or types: 1) the low mintage / limited mintage proof-like ("PL") version and 2) the common / unlimited mintage bullion version. What some might not know is how to tell the difference.

The "PL" version is produced differently, has a different finish and look, comes in capsule and a custom wooden box with numbered COA and is minted in very limited quantities. The bu version has no mintage limit, is minted in much greater numbers typically, and comes only in a capsule with nothing else. So what exactly does the PL version look like? Like this: https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4274086-005/ It's a reverse proof finish. The fields are satin and the raised areas (devices) are mirror shiny. The common bullion version looks quite different....has a uniform bullion finish.

The above auction would appear to be for the low mintage PL version....but it is merely a bullion coin being deceptively sold in a way that many would perceive it is the PL version. This is sheer crookery....period.

My personal advice....do not buy anything from this seller unless you do not want to support dishonest and disreputable sellers.






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351825163102
it says 999 silver and wooden display.

from the details, never suggest a "proof" or limited production.
 
Are saying the box is an aftermarket and making the listing look like a PL version that came in a box?
 
alor said:
351825163102
it says 999 silver and wooden display.

from the details, never suggest a "proof" or limited production.
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Either you still don't get it or you are a shill for that seller. :(

If the former then maybe you should buy that coin since it's the collector version coin and at that price significantly under valued. :rolleyes:




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Ipv6Ready said:
Are saying the box is an aftermarket and making the listing look like a PL version that came in a box?
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The box is the very box from the PL version. That scamming crooked seller put a common bullion coin in that box and hasn't mentioned in any way, shape, or form that it's the common bullion coin that is put in the PL version box for no good reason except to deceive unsuspecting buyers.



A couple of other crooked sellers have done basically the same thing.



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mmissinglink said:
Ipv6Ready said:
Are saying the box is an aftermarket and making the listing look like a PL version that came in a box?
Click to expand...



The box is the very box from the PL version. That scamming crooked seller put a common bullion coin in that box and hasn't mentioned in any way, shape, or form that it's the common bullion coin that is put in the PL version box for no good reason except to deceive unsuspecting buyers.



A couple of other crooked sellers have done basically the same thing.



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I am not going to by any libatards so just asking, if the coin being sold is with an original PL box then there must be a greatly reduced premium PL somewhere without a box because the box is part of the sale.

A couple of other crooked sellers have done the same thing so there must be quite a few de valued PL,s around missing there box which makes it counter productive for the seller to have swapped the coins themselves.

How much is a PL worth without its box and how much is the non PL coin worth in a PL box ?

Its a bit deceiving I admit but not many people buy kilo proof coins without knowing what they are buying.
 
I didn't realise the box was for a genuine PL.

So I guess if the buyer didn't carefully check than, they could be paying for PL and getting a BU with a genuine box

Maybe people are getting them slabbed, than the original owners could be selling the box. I bet people could get a decent price for thos boxes.
 
Ipv6Ready said:
I didn't realise the box was for a genuine PL.

So I guess if the buyer didn't carefully check than, they could be paying for PL and getting a BU with a genuine box

Maybe people are getting them slabbed, than the original owners could be selling the box. I bet people could get a decent price for thos boxes.
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Thats some mighty big slabbing, I would like a few of them babies :P
 
mmissinglink said:
Ipv6Ready said:
Are saying the box is an aftermarket and making the listing look like a PL version that came in a box?
Click to expand...



The box is the very box from the PL version. That scamming crooked seller put a common bullion coin in that box and hasn't mentioned in any way, shape, or form that it's the common bullion coin that is put in the PL version box for no good reason except to deceive unsuspecting buyers.



A couple of other crooked sellers have done basically the same thing.



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Click to expand...

Even PCGS gets it wrong with Kilo PL,s


http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=260545
 
Ipv6Ready said:
I didn't realise the box was for a genuine PL.

So I guess if the buyer didn't carefully check than, they could be paying for PL and getting a BU with a genuine box

Maybe people are getting them slabbed, than the original owners could be selling the box. I bet people could get a decent price for thos boxes.
Click to expand...



Yes, that's exactly what's happening....these scammers are buying the PL and the bullion version and then getting the PL version slabbed by NGC or PCGS and then trying to pass the bullion version off as the PL version.

It's crookery and it's deception what this seller is doing.



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Ipv6Ready said:
fishtaco said:
Even PCGS gets it wrong with Kilo PL,s
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=260545
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Does not say much for training of the inspector or admin quality control.

So a PL coin inspected as BU get a MS70?
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There could be more than one reason why this (labelled incorrectly) happens. While it's true that the grader may actually not know there are 2 different versions of the kilo Libertad (that would be troubling to find this is the case), the grading is done by a different person than the assigning of label designation as far as I know. So it could hae been either a typo or the graded only gave a number grade wrongly assuming that the person at the next stage knows the difference between the PL and the bu versions.

Of course, I don't know why that PL Libertad got designated MS when it should be obvious to anyone given authority at PCGS to grade kilo Libs that it should have been designated "PL" as the devices are mirror shiny.



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Especially since the ebayer in question has 7500 feedback selling coins.

Though how much is a PL version?



mmissinglink said:
Ipv6Ready said:
I didn't realise the box was for a genuine PL.

So I guess if the buyer didn't carefully check than, they could be paying for PL and getting a BU with a genuine box

Maybe people are getting them slabbed, than the original owners could be selling the box. I bet people could get a decent price for thos boxes.
Click to expand...



Yes, that's exactly what's happening....these scammers are buying the PL and the bullion version and then getting the PL version slabbed by NGC or PCGS and then trying to pass the bullion version off as the PL version.

It's crookery and it's deception what this seller is doing.



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Click to expand...
 
Ipv6Ready said:
Especially since the ebayer in question has 7500 feedback selling coins.

Though how much is a PL version?



mmissinglink said:
Ipv6Ready said:
I didn't realise the box was for a genuine PL.

So I guess if the buyer didn't carefully check than, they could be paying for PL and getting a BU with a genuine box

Maybe people are getting them slabbed, than the original owners could be selling the box. I bet people could get a decent price for thos boxes.
Click to expand...



Yes, that's exactly what's happening....these scammers are buying the PL and the bullion version and then getting the PL version slabbed by NGC or PCGS and then trying to pass the bullion version off as the PL version.

It's crookery and it's deception what this seller is doing.

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Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Depends on what year, the condition of the coin, and the timing of the sale. Summer generally sees lower prices for precious metals products as far as I can tell. There are exceptions to this rule of course.




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I am not going to buy kilo Libertads, but it is so disappointing to see top rated sellers with thousands of feedbacks that play this game...
 
some people insist to have a box for 999 bullion, what can we say.

scam??? it is very much buyers beware market for eBay.

there is no misleading words stated there anywhere. anyone can sell a bullion coin with any box. its more like 2 in one listing, it would be more evidence for us to see your email communication with this particular seller for find out if there is misrepresentation on the seller part.

I have no interest on such a big coins, nor compared their prices.
 
There's every chance he's not being intentionally misleading, have a very hard time believing they would risk their flawless record by playing games.
Ask the question through ebay and request they make their answer public, if they don't, then we can start to suggest they're a little dodgy.

I bet they fix it no problem.
 
I am a newbie when it comes to PM and know nothing about libertads. But if I took a fancy to Libertads and wanted to buy one, and YES I realise ebay is buyer beware etc, but the fact that it comes with a genuine box for a PL from a reputable seller, I could potentially over look it and think I am getting bargain.

Now say I bought it, and upon receiving it and realising its not what I thought.....

So I make enquires (which I should have done before I buy), the seller could in honesty reply, we didn't state it was PL, but really sorry YOU didn't realise that it was Bullion, we thought you should know as kilo libertads are bought by collectors. But just for you, tell you what we wont charge you for restocking fee, but if you return and pay $xxx dollars more we will exchange for PL or give you a full refund, up to you.

Now all plausible but in Australia that would be called, "Bait advertising"

Advertising the options of top of the range model and advertising price for bottom model without stating different models exist.
 
Ipv6Ready said:
I am a newbie when it comes to PM and know nothing about libertads. But if I took a fancy to Libertads and wanted to buy one, and YES I realise ebay is buyer beware etc, but the fact that it comes with a genuine box for a PL from a reputable seller, I could potentially over look it and think I am getting bargain.

Now say I bought it, and upon receiving it and realising its not what I thought.....

So I make enquires (which I should have done before I buy), the seller could in honesty reply, we didn't state it was PL, but really sorry YOU didn't realise that it was Bullion, we thought you should know as kilo libertads are bought by collectors. But just for you, tell you what we wont charge you for restocking fee, but if you return and pay $xxx dollars more we will exchange for PL or give you a full refund, up to you.

Now all plausible but in Australia that would be called, "Bait advertising"

Advertising the options of top of the range model and advertising price for bottom model without stating different models exist.
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the title 999 means bullion

proof coins would have certificate, box and shinny coin. most cases limited productions too
its best to ask question first, just in-case you did not know about the product.
 
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