BBC: The men who made us spend

aleks

Well-Known Member
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01zxmrv/the-men-who-made-us-spend-episode-1
acques Peretti investigates consumerism. This episode, Jacques looks at how consumerism is perpetually driven by product lifespans and 'upgrades'.

You will to be in the UK or behind a UK based VPN


A random review I googled

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...Us-Spend-BBC-Two-review-very-heavyhanded.html

There were a lot of convenient villains in The Men Who Made Us Spend (BBC Two, Saturday), Jacques Peretti's energetic rant against the evils of consumerism. Apple founder Steve Jobs and Margaret Thatcher were among those implicated in what Peretti believed was a grand conspiracy to turn us all into dead eyed splurge-bots hooked on cheap credit and high street bling.

Peretti isn't a subtle filmmaker and the first episode of the three part series was chippy and polemical. Capitalism, he explained in his whispery voice, is a rigged roulette wheel presided over by faceless CEOs and supplicant politicians whose championing of "right-wing" economics and light touch regulation went hand in hand with boundless corporate avarice. From a cabal of Twenties light bulb magnates artificially shortening their products' lifespan to Apple and its endless iterations of the iPhone, their tentacles, it was intimated, reached into your pockets, making you spend more money.

Although Peretti is British his impassioned narration was in the American tradition of documentarian-as-advocate. It is a form popularised by Michael Moore, an Oscar winner for Bowling for Columbine. Peretti trod in Moore's footsteps as he hectored a technology guru who suggested that putting a replaceable battery in an iPod would make it inefficient and ugly. What did he know, Peretti practically yelled. He was only an expert.

Peretti reserved his greatest anger for Apple and the fanboys worshipping at the altar of Steve Jobs. Confronting Apple aficionados queuing for the latest iPhone outside the company's Regent Street store, Peretti was openly disdainful. That responsible adults might be capable of clear-headed decisions about their spending was a possibility he did not appear willing to countenance.
 
I can see how lots of people will glance over this and discount it as socialist propaganda from the review if you are that narrow minded and miss some interesting points from episode 1

Corporations colluding to make inferior products and planned obsolecence to increase proffits

How the creation of computer aided design (autocad) segmented and expanded the markets

The dynamics of consumer goods chaning from need and utility to perceived need of fashionable objects with less function

Episode two, which I haven't watched yet is about human emotion and how we are manipulated in order to get us to consume more.
 
aleks said:
I can see how lots of people will glance over this and discount it as socialist propaganda from the review if you are that narrow minded and miss some interesting points from episode 1

Corporations colluding to make inferior products and planned obsolecence to increase proffits

How the creation of computer aided design (autocad) segmented and expanded the markets

The dynamics of consumer goods chaning from need and utility to perceived need of fashionable objects with less function

Episode two, which I haven't watched yet is about human emotion and how we are manipulated in order to get us to consume more.

At what point in history did this happen?

753_egypt.jpg


With increasing wealth comes an increasing capacity to spend on luxury items. Once life's basics are met, excess income can be spent on the pleasures of life. It's a natural progression and one that has only marginally to do with manipulation of spending habits and corporate collusions, so I will not be watching it and therefore will remain narrow minded. :)
 
Concerning the OP, McDonalds refers to its best customers as 'heavy users'. I suppose that makes me a 'recreational user'.

I find planned obsolescence extremely offensive, akin to theft with numerous victims.
 
JulieW said:
I find planned obsolescence extremely offensive, akin to theft with numerous victims.

What items would you like to keep for 5 or 10 or more years before having to replace them? I call BS on planned obsolescence conspiracies.

It's most likely that we replace goods because of functional or fashionable obsolescence.
 
aleks said:
I can see how lots of people will glance over this and discount it as socialist propaganda from the review if you are that narrow minded and miss some interesting points from episode 1
I tend to like to watch a wide variety of things, even bullshit anti-capitalistic propaganda that completely misses the point, but I reach saturation on many topics quite quickly. :)

In the case of this one, it is probably interesting enough, but the review and the premise lead me to believe that it is essentially a nonsensical rant against "waste" etc.

aleks said:
Corporations colluding to make inferior products and planned obsolecence to increase proffits
A couple of points:
1. Collusion never works for any sustained period of time in capitalism without resorting to the use force by government.
2. "Inferior" is a very loaded word. What is inferior for one person may be superior for another. In the case of goods there are a range of attributes that people desire not just longevity.
3. Increased profits is a good thing. It means that more value has been created.

aleks said:
How the creation of computer aided design (autocad) segmented and expanded the markets
I don't understand what you mean by this but it sounds good.

aleks said:
The dynamics of consumer goods chaning from need and utility to perceived need of fashionable objects with less function
Shiney! answered this sufficiently.

aleks said:
Episode two, which I haven't watched yet is about human emotion and how we are manipulated in order to get us to consume more.
Importantly "manipulation" to consume more is pointless unless someone is actually producing more. The ability to consume more is awesome as it means we are all richer. :)
 
I stumbled across this article by Lew Rockwell this morning which is on this topic.

Lew Rockwell said:
In Praise of Shoddy Products
The average family will spend about $1000 on Christmas gifts, and much of what we buy might be described as rather shoddy. It is prone to break and wear out. Kids' gifts might not last the day. Our new clothes might not make it to next season. Our electronic stuff might break down in a year. Our kitchen gadgets might snap and break. Household gifts of all sorts just aren't what they used to be. The spines of our books will snap, our yard equipment will need replacing by summer's end, and our tools will break rather than last generations as our granddad's did.

Many commentators have noted that kitchen appliances, and many other things, just don't seem to last the way they used to. In the old days, you got a blender as a wedding gift and your daughter would use it when she came home from college. These days we are lucky if a blender or hand mixer lasts a few years. The same seems true of washers and dryers, lawn mowers and edgers, clothing, electronic equipment, and even homes.

Some people blame China, others Wal-Mart, others the web, and still others just think it is a sign of the times when civilization is sinking into a hole in preparation for Armaggedon. Regardless, that this trend is awful is rarely questioned. So let us question away.

Paradoxically, this is not a bad thing but a sign of rising wealth. It is a sign of prosperity that we prefer the new to the repaired. As consumers, we show a preference for throwing away and replacing rather than being stuck with a dated gizmo or unfashionable item. What's more, our preference for shoddiness over durability is not wasteful at all, but merely a reflection of the market's ability to adjust to consumer demand with resource supply. In making ever more shoddy products manufacturers are doing what is best for all of us.

To begin to understand why, consider that in a thousand years, the pyramids will still be standing but your subdivision will likely be long gone. Does this indicate that the ancient world was a better and more prosperous place because it made structures that will last and last? Clearly not. Durability is only one value among many competing values in the production and consumption process, and it is very likely to decline in the order of priorities as wealth increases.
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If your book falls apart, your clothes collapse in tatters, and your washing machine suddenly keels over, resist the temptation to decry the decline of civilization. Remember that you can replace all these items at a fraction of the price that your mom or hers bought them. And you can do so with minimal fuss and trouble. And it is very likely that the new versions of the old products that you buy will have more bells and whistles than the old.

You can call this planned obsolescence if you want to. It is planned by producers because consumers prefer improvement to permanence, availability to longevity, replaceability to repairability, motion and change to durability. It is not waste because there is no eternal standard by which we can measure and assess the economic rationality behind the use of resources in society. This is something that can only be determined and judged by individuals using resources in a market setting.

Of course a person is free to live in a drafty stone house, listen to music on a Victrola, wash clothes with a washboard, tell time with a sundial, and make one's clothes from flour sacks. Even now this is possible. One is free to be completely obsolete. But let us not equate this status with wealth, and let us not aspire to live in a society in which everyone is forced to prefer the permanent things to the cheap, improving, and widely available things.
Full article is worth a read as well.
 
I dont buy this conspiracy theory about companies deliberately making shotty products to make extra profit.
simply because consumers will consider quality of a product before they make a purchase. Companies that screw their customers would surely go out of business.

Number of logic/examples here.

U get what u pay for. Eg u can buy some cooking pots from kmart for $1 each and they might last a few years. By that stage most people would want to replace them anyway. However if you want something that last generations. Then u can go all out and buy a Le Creuset for a few hundred bucks.

Do cars last longer than they use to? I sure think so because consumers value quality in cars so companies try to make longer lasting cars. Where as for things like a toilet brush, consumer would just want to buy something cheap and replace it in a year. Companies making expensive toilet brush that last decades would go out of business.

As for technology. My old nokia is still perfectly capable of making phone calls and my old pc still works. They are good quality but I chose to replace them obviously due to rapid advances in technology.

So I think those who attribute poor quality products to greedy companies, consipracy and capitalism are just silly and dont connect the dots, some of them are just outright communists
 
aleks said:
I can see how lots of people will glance over this and discount it as socialist propaganda from the review if you are that narrow minded and miss some interesting points from episode 1

Corporations colluding to make inferior products and planned obsolecence to increase proffits

How the creation of computer aided design (autocad) segmented and expanded the markets

The dynamics of consumer goods chaning from need and utility to perceived need of fashionable objects with less function

Episode two, which I haven't watched yet is about human emotion and how we are manipulated in order to get us to consume more.

I believe it's called market research, and marketing respectively.

Re the "perceived need of fashionable objects with less function" ; if that's what the target market wants, that's what they get if the researchers do their job properly.

In this specific case you quoted the marketing is obviously targeted at trend followers rather than value based purchasers, the former is much easier to make a quick buck from rather than the latter, and there will always be plenty in that category with cash burning a hole in their pocket. ;)
 
mmm....shiney! said:
With increasing wealth comes an increasing capacity to spend on luxury items. Once life's basics are met, excess income can be spent on the pleasures of life. It's a natural progression and one that has only marginally to do with manipulation of spending habits and corporate collusions, so I will not be watching it and therefore will remain narrow minded. :)

Manipulation and conspiracy aside, what I find interesting is looking at the bigger picture and analysing consumerist lifestyle the we find ourselves stuck in. How much better off are we in this pursuit of luxury items after we satisfy our basic human needs. Well is this really a natural progression? For the majority of the developed world our life expectancy and standard of living is much better than an Egyptian Pharaoh, are equally happier for it?

8f39f8815f74114864991f12e152fe7461b7a87384a51f9d6d9b13e6de9f6f03.jpg


I would say an element of this is human nature to want to improve our lot in life to be comfortable however, this drive is manipulated by marketing/researchers by making us feel inadequate to which the solution they tell us is to buy shit we don't need and our problems will be fixed. So we get stuck in this endless loop of working so we can consume more, get into to debt ....... consume some more.

lvZnDpT.png


bordsilver said:
Importantly "manipulation" to consume more is pointless unless someone is actually producing more. The ability to consume more is awesome as it means we are all richer. :)
Are we really ?

And this is the result we get, we are up to our eyeballs in debt in order to perpetuate our ponzi economy. We need growth, 2 to 3% growth or gonna die trying
 
mmm....shiney! said:
JulieW said:
I find planned obsolescence extremely offensive, akin to theft with numerous victims.

What items would you like to keep for 5 or 10 or more years before having to replace them? I call BS on planned obsolescence conspiracies.

It's most likely that we replace goods because of functional or fashionable obsolescence.

Water heaters.
Fridge.
Freezer.
Stove.
Washing machine.
Dishwasher.
Light bulbs.
Taps.
Cars.
...
 
willrocks said:
mmm....shiney! said:
JulieW said:
I find planned obsolescence extremely offensive, akin to theft with numerous victims.

What items would you like to keep for 5 or 10 or more years before having to replace them? I call BS on planned obsolescence conspiracies.

It's most likely that we replace goods because of functional or fashionable obsolescence.

Water heaters.
Fridge.
Freezer.
Stove.
Washing machine.
Dishwasher.
Light bulbs.
Taps.
Cars.
...

Planned obsolescence in a number of items (eg - car parts) is a fact not a conspiracy.
 
The sad reality is how this contributes to landfill and manufacturing pollution. Personally I'll pay more for something that lasts longer due to being made with better materials. Sometimes this is not available on the market where it once was (or had the potential to be), and though explicit collusion is unrealistic, corporate culture promotes it enough to shape the market. Profits come from consumables, and product design follows this mantra often enough, including where the product line is unlikely to be radically improved during it's mean time to failure. Many improvements are purely stylistic or largely superfluous (do I really need wifi on my fridge?), though that generally reflects the nature it's target consumer. I'm far more concerned with the core function and longevity than the bells and whistles used as sales motivators.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfbbF3oxf-E[/youtube]

Printers are another major example. I'd prefer to decide myself when it's time to replace one than have a chip count my usage and stop working by design of the manufacturer. Educational texts being revised in fields with no breakthroughs in the last decade to avoid resale by students is a blatant example. I refuse to buy any battery powered device that I can't easily replace the battery without paying a technician to do so (iPhone, anyone?)

Wherever this is done by design, a company loses my business.
 
aleks said:
Manipulation and conspiracy aside, what I find interesting is looking at the bigger picture and analysing consumerist lifestyle the we find ourselves stuck in. How much better off are we in this pursuit of luxury items after we satisfy our basic human needs. Well is this really a natural progression? For the majority of the developed world our life expectancy and standard of living is much better than an Egyptian Pharaoh, are equally happier for it?


I would say an element of this is human nature to want to improve our lot in life to be comfortable however, this drive is manipulated by marketing/researchers by making us feel inadequate to which the solution they tell us is to buy shit we don't need and our problems will be fixed. So we get stuck in this endless loop of working so we can consume more, get into to debt ....... consume some more.

I thought you were leaving manipulation and conspiracy aside? :lol:

If you buy stuff you don't need because someone told you you need it, then I think you've got a problem, it's not manipulation or a conspiracy, it's marketing and it's your choice. The alternative is to not have any choice and just be presented with a limited supply of goods for consumption that have been pre-approved for purchase by your local authority.

willrocks said:
Water heaters.
Fridge.
Freezer.
Stove.
Washing machine.
Dishwasher.
Light bulbs.
Taps.
Cars.
...

Whose water heater, fridge, freezer, stove, washing machine, dishwasher, car doesn't last 5 - 10 years? If we do replace them we often replace with them a unit that runs far more efficiently.

Stoic Phoenix said:
Planned obsolescence in a number of items (eg - car parts) is a fact not a conspiracy.

What parts?
 
Just a quick heads up for those wanting to watch this, it's available on YouTube

I'm watching it now because I have some rare spare time and it's actually quite interesting
 
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