Australia (Sydney) How to get a Gold and Silver valuation for my SMSF?

M

MyWord

New Member
Good day, guys.

This is a question for those who live in Australia (Sydney specifically).

I have my own SMSF and bought a few precious metals last year for the first time (and took delivery, because screw "paper gold" or IOUs).

I have to get these metals valued on the 30th of June 2022 and declare them in my SMSF tax details.
I simply cannot get any Chartered Accountants in Sydney to perform this valuation for me (I'm paying, of course). I will take the metals to the person, so there's no shenanigans with shipping or concerns about fraud.

Can anyone recommend a Chartered Accountant that will perform this valuation so I can use to keep my SMSF compliant?

Thanks!
 
I use Perth Mint's or Kitco's value on the day using copy and paste or whatever method you want. Then do a stat dec stating exactly what's in the SDB. My auditor really likes it when I include a statement that it's "unencumbered", as it looks very professional, like we've covered everything.

They did have a go at me one year and I just pointed out that if a stat dec was good enough for the court it should be good enough for the ATO, as the ATO comes under the court.

Total cost is zero!! :)
 
GoldenEye said:
I use Perth Mint's or Kitco's value on the day using copy and paste or whatever method you want. Then do a stat dec stating exactly what's in the SDB. My auditor really likes it when I include a statement that it's "unencumbered", as it looks very professional, like we've covered everything.

They did have a go at me one year and I just pointed out that if a stat dec was good enough for the court it should be good enough for the ATO, as the ATO comes under the court.

Total cost is zero!! :)
Click to expand...
The balls on this guy!
LOL!

Yeah, this is my first go at an SMSF (just created it last year) and I'm following the recommendations from the fund management team. They said that I had to use a registered chartered accountant to do so.
I've called Jaggards in Sydney CBD and they said they'd do it, but they don't have an accountant, so that, to me, was a moot point.

How long have you been holding metals for and how long have you been using this strategy?
Also: Do you use an independent fund auditor to review that documentation annually? Did they ever want to see the metals in person? If so, I'd happily pay them to do a valuation if they're also chartered accountants, to make sure I'm always going by the book.
Again, I'm new at this, so just want to make sure I'm not going in over my head from the very beginning...

Thanks!
 
I just list the assets and like @GoldenEye base the valuation on the EOFY price, I use ABC Bullion's. I don't do a stat dec until I'm asked to do so, I've done 1 and have had a SMSF since 2011. If my accountant jacks up I just keep telling them that whatever they want is just not going to happen and that I'll take my business elsewhere. Whoever your accountant is doing your return will have to get an Auditor anyway, you could take a photo of your bullion on a copy of your local paper dated 30/6 as proof that you own it, then do a stat dec stating where the assets are held and that they have not been bought or sold during the year for any personal material gain etc etc and calculate the EOFY value.

This is the problem with holding physical in an SMSF, if they're stored in a vault like The Reserve Vault they can get an auditor in for a fee. Seriously the best thing you can do if you intend holding the metals for the medium to long term is to take them to a bullion dealer and swap them for allocated/unallocated. It's far easier, less costly and makes a better investment strategy from the point of view of cost and liquidity.
 
Only semi related but is there any benefit of holding gold in super long term vs outside super?

Yes it is a interesting hypothetical questions, if you are investigating one should talk to their financial advisor but open a serious question.

PS doing this I believe will inccur a tax event, ask your financial advisor
 
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Ipv6Ready said:
Only semi related but is there any benefit of holding gold in super, long term vs outside super?

Just asking for those that might have few kg outside of smsf and industry fund as many in SS might have?

Bearing in mind until sold there is no CGT event so no laws are broken, but a family member in smsf might suddenly find a kg or two under their mattress?

Yes it is a interesting hypothetical questions, if you are investigating one should talk to their financial advisor but this could be fun for gigles or open a serious question.
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My SMSF is in pension mode and pays no tax, so it's a no-brainer for me.
 
MyWord said:
The balls on this guy!
LOL!

Yeah, this is my first go at an SMSF (just created it last year) and I'm following the recommendations from the fund management team. They said that I had to use a registered chartered accountant to do so.
I've called Jaggards in Sydney CBD and they said they'd do it, but they don't have an accountant, so that, to me, was a moot point.

How long have you been holding metals for and how long have you been using this strategy?
Also: Do you use an independent fund auditor to review that documentation annually? Did they ever want to see the metals in person? If so, I'd happily pay them to do a valuation if they're also chartered accountants, to make sure I'm always going by the book.
Again, I'm new at this, so just want to make sure I'm not going in over my head from the very beginning...

Thanks!
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Been doing this for years, and just provide the purchase receipts and my stat dec.

Some SDB companies will not allow your auditor in even if you're with them, so you'll need to use the SDB company's own auditor, with a fee of course. Also, in reality an auditor couldn't tell the difference between a real gold bar and a fake ebay bar, so your stat dec is actually much more reliable. Providing you purchased your items from someone like a reputable bullion dealer.
 
Same as others above
I also get current days newspaper's eg Herald Sun, Age, Financial review and place my EOFY holding's on top with dates clearly showing so I can present a pictorial physical representation complete with correlating time stamps.That gives my Auditor a warm fuzzy feeling and keeps his audit antenna's from getting bent out of place.
Addendum: What is really important is a clear arms length paper trail with proper receipts that are traceable to both the buyer and seller of stock.This coupled with the fact that you actually hold the stock at the time of reconciliation and can provide evidence to that fact.
 
Alright, I decided to go with this solution.
Bought a local newspaper, wrote a stat declaration, defining exactly how many bars I have, their weight and today's valuation.
I'll take a photo of the bars on top of the newspaper and send to my SMSF manager, along with the invoice for the purchase of the metals.
Anything else I should add or do?

Thanks again!
 
So are those pictures only accessible to your accountant or does the government get them too?
Sounds sketchy taking pics of something like that all covering a whole newspaper haha. Gleaming so elegantly and proud as only a truely elemental precious metal can, but please feel free to share them here as brotherly love. Id freaking love to see that pile and others would too!
We all post pics so theres no worries.

Im American and dont understand the tax details there regarding metals or what an smsf even is.
For all my government knows i blew that stack on hookers and blow after a long weekend in Vegas or i lost it all in that boating accident along with all my guns and large cap mags and ammo.

If its an investment vehicle that includes your stack then id understand that for sure.

For me its the most private of treasure hoards and only shared with my closest family and random strangers in Australia mostly that i will never meet haha.

If my ma, myself, my wife and kids all die at the same time it leaves you guys to find it.
 
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@JohnnyBravo300, our SMSFs are a self-managed form of your 401k. They are established by trustees whether individual or corporate and must be registered and audited. Hence the paper trail. They are attractive to investors because they attract less tax.
 
I realise this is a few weeks old but I don't visit often. My SMSF sold 150KG of PAMP silver in the 2020-2021 FY. I got hit for CG tax. My understanding is that you can take your PM out "in specie" if you exit SMSF at Pension Phase, but if you exit before age 60 or sell, you will pay CG tax. My auditor accepts the valuation based on a snapshot/screenshot of prices on 30th June.
 
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