AUSTRAC radar when transacting with site sponsors & online sellers

[Aust-Tech]

pmstacker wrote:
I was going to ask the customer overseas to wire transfer and order gold at various bullion dealers (depending on spot and who's selling what for cheaper) and get the customer to state my address or use my customer account with the dealers to deliver the gold or silver to my address (kinda using bullion dealers as a way to transfer half of the payment to me as gold or silver instead of me having to go buy what i want to buy in gold or silver after i receive their full fiat payment) would that cause *ALARM Bells* to go off to a dealer if purchases were coming in regularly ?

Yes, the above scenario would be reported by law. Section 40 of the Act states "If a person sends or receives an international funds transfer instruction (wire transfer), the person must give the AUSTRAC CEO a report about the instruction.". This is true for EFTI's (Electronic Funds Transfer Instruction) and IFTI's (International Funds Transfer Instruction).

AML also states:
CHAPTER 33 Applicable customer identification procedure for purchases and sales of bullion valued at less than $5,000

33.1 These Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Rules (Rules) are made under section 229 of the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 (AML/CTF Act) for subsection 39(4) of that Act.

33.2 Subject to paragraph 33.3 below, Division 4 of Part 2 of the AML/CTF Act does not apply to a designated service that:
(1) is of a kind described in items 1 or 2 of table 2 in subsection 6(3) of the AML/CTF Act; and
(2) the retail value of the bullion is less than $5,000 (Australian or the foreign equivalent).

33.3 The exemption in paragraph 33.2 does not apply where a reporting entity determines in accordance with its appropriate risk-based systems and controls that:
(1) further KYC information should be collected about a customer for ongoing customer due diligence purposes; or
(2) KYC information should be updated or verified about a customer for ongoing customer due diligence purposes.

More interesting references:
International funds transfer instructions (electronic) - when to report (PDF, 662KB) (11/01) http://www.austrac.gov.au/files/110315_guidance-note-1101_ifti_when-to-report_.pdf

International funds transfer instruction reporting requirements for items 1 and 2 of section 46 of the AML/CTF Act (PDF, 185KB) (09/03)
http://www.austrac.gov.au/files/gn0903_ifti_reporting.pdf

Definition of 'bullion' under the AML/CTF Act (PDF, 80KB) (2009/01) http://www.austrac.gov.au/files/gn0901_bullion_definition.pdf

AUSTRAC guidance note: identification requirements in threshold transaction reports from 1 October 2011 (PDF, 78KB) (10/01) http://www.austrac.gov.au/files/gn1001_id_reqs_ttrs.pdf

and the full act: ANTI-MONEY LAUNDERING AND COUNTER-TERRORISM FINANCING ACT 2006
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/alacfa2006522/

it's all there, albeit a bit of a read.

Cheers


This is not my signature
I'll b @ ANDA BNE 2011

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

I was going to ask the customer overseas to wire transfer and order gold at various bullion dealers (depending on spot and who's selling what for cheaper) and get the customer to state my address or use my customer account with the dealers to deliver the gold or silver to my address (kinda using bullion dealers as a way to transfer half of the payment to me as gold or silver instead of me having to go buy what i want to buy in gold or silver after i receive their full fiat payment) would that cause *ALARM Bells* to go off to a dealer if purchases were coming in regularly ?

Yes, mostly likely reported.

Frequent repeated sub $10,000 cash transactions are likely to be reported by a dealer to AUSTRAC as suspicious transaction

lol - its like the Gestapo days of WW2 ... Aussies can hardly contain themselves to 'dob' each other in to the jackbooted thugs in government...

a really sick mentality

 

[goldpelican]

AUSTRAC has been around since 1989 - I think it had it's origins in Project Wickenby which was the massive investigation into tax avoidance and money laundering. Shonky stuff like false invoices to offshore shell companies for millions of dollars, then taking out "mortgages" from the same offshore company for the same amount that were never repaid etc.

 

[2ds]

I was going to ask the customer overseas to wire transfer and order gold at various bullion dealers (depending on spot and who's selling what for cheaper) and get the customer to state my address or use my customer account with the dealers to deliver the gold or silver to my address (kinda using bullion dealers as a way to transfer half of the payment to me as gold or silver instead of me having to go buy what i want to buy in gold or silver after i receive their full fiat payment) would that cause *ALARM Bells* to go off to a dealer if purchases were coming in regularly ?

Yes, mostly likely reported.

Frequent repeated sub $10,000 cash transactions are likely to be reported by a dealer to AUSTRAC as suspicious transaction

lol - its like the Gestapo days of WW2 ... Aussies can hardly contain themselves to 'dob' each other in to the jackbooted thugs in government...

a really sick mentality

I think it is more that is a genuinely suspicious behaviour ;p

 

[goldpelican]

Hang around any bricks n mortar dealer for more than an hour and you will see one come in... asks quietly "do you report this to tax office"... "oh, ID"... "how much I buy with no ID".. "ok then three ounces please". This is after asking for 10oz gold and wanting to pay cash that they have on them (weeks takings etc).

Be happy with the current regime that it's not stricter.

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

Yes, mostly likely reported.

Frequent repeated sub $10,000 cash transactions are likely to be reported by a dealer to AUSTRAC as suspicious transaction

lol - its like the Gestapo days of WW2 ... Aussies can hardly contain themselves to 'dob' each other in to the jackbooted thugs in government...

a really sick mentality

I think it is more that is a genuinely suspicious behaviour ;p

This whole anti-money laundering thing is just a croc of sh1t coverup to enable governments to control every single transaction made by private citizens. its a sick system and i can hardly wait for this whole stinking system to collapse in on itself.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

you are probably correct there yippe, it's about keeping track of money so that governments don't miss out on their tax-take rather than protecting citizens from unseen threats.

 

[goldpelican]

It's exactly that - origins in Project Wickenby as per my earlier post.

 

[Yippe-Ki-Ya]

you are probably correct there yippe, it's about keeping track of money so that governments don't miss out on their tax-take rather than protecting citizens from unseen threats.

Most wars have begun due to unfair and unsustainable taxation. The future will be no different. The days of big fat governments leeching off its citizens are numbered...

 

[grinners]

Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will.
I sure could use a vacation from this

Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks

Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.

Fret for your figure and
Fret for your latte and
Fret for your lawsuit and
Fret for your hairpiece and
Fret for your prozac and
Fret for your pilot and
Fret for your contract and
Fret for your car.

It's a
Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of
Freaks

Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
Any fucking Time. Any fucking day.
Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.

Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.

Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will cuz
I sure could use a vacation from this

STUPID shit, silly shit, stupid shit...

One great big festering neon distraction,
I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied.

Learn to swim.

Mum's gonna fix it all soon.
Mum's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to
be.

Learn to swim.

Cuz I'm praying for rain
And I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down.
Mum please flush it all away.
I wanna see it go right in and down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
Watch you flush it all away.

Time to bring it down again.
Don't just call me pessimist.
Try and read between the lines.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't
Welcome any change, my friend.

I wanna see it come down.
Come down.
Suck it down.
Flush it down.

 

[mmm....shiney!]

It's exactly that - origins in Project Wickenby as per my earlier post.

Project Wickenby - "was established in 2006 to protect the integrity of Australia's financial and regulatory systems by preventing people promoting or participating in the abusive use of secrecy havens."

I imagine that when the ATO uses the term "the abusive" they actually mean "any" or "legitimate".
Source: http://www.ato.gov.au/content/00220075.htm"

 

[goldpelican]

Hmm I had my dates wrong then - there was a massive writeup in the AFR the other day on Wickenby, and it talked about the creation of AUSTRAC being related (although AUSTRAC is from 89).

 

[2ds]

you are probably correct there yippe, it's about keeping track of money so that governments don't miss out on their tax-take rather than protecting citizens from unseen threats.

Most wars have begun due to unfair and unsustainable taxation. The future will be no different. The days of big fat governments leeching off its citizens are numbered...

Yeah yeah put it in your manifesto

 

[Captain Kookaburra]

What tax sold all mine for a loss..

I wonder if that's why I "seem" to be selling everything before the price goes up?

Then what do I know?

Ck.

 

[Nationalist]

I thought I'd add an anecdote I have of an experience I had with AUSTRAC. Some time ago, I was sent 10k from someone in the UK. It was an entirely legal and legitimate transfer of money into my bank account from a UK bank account. However, the money took over 2 weeks (from the time it left the UK bank account to reach mine). Naturally, when it didn't arrive in my bank account after a few days, I became concerned. Neither bank had the money, so where was it? After many phone calls, my bank told me the Australian government had frozen the money and to call AUSTRAC. When I phoned AUSTRAC they told me that they had no idea where the money was but it's disappearance certainly had nothing to do with them as they never freeze or confiscate money ... Well, I had just about given up hope when the money finally appeared in my account. That experience made me realize that the Australian government can make money disappear into thin air ... Fortunately in my case it reappeared again.

 

[projack]

I am really missing the freedom we once had in the 80s

 

[thatguy]

I thought I'd add an anecdote I have of an experience I had with AUSTRAC. Some time ago, I was sent 10k from someone in the UK. It was an entirely legal and legitimate transfer of money into my bank account from a UK bank account. However, the money took over 2 weeks (from the time it left the UK bank account to reach mine). Naturally, when it didn't arrive in my bank account after a few days, I became concerned. Neither bank had the money, so where was it? After many phone calls, my bank told me the Australian government had frozen the money and to call AUSTRAC. When I phoned AUSTRAC they told me that they had no idea where the money was but it's disappearance certainly had nothing to do with them as they never freeze or confiscate money ... Well, I had just about given up hope when the money finally appeared in my account. That experience made me realize that the Australian government can make money disappear into thin air ... Fortunately in my case it reappeared again.

1s and 0s, scary $h!t. Silver tangible, but slightly hard to get to the UK.... or is it?!?!

 

[adrenalin]

I thought I'd add an anecdote I have of an experience I had with AUSTRAC. Some time ago, I was sent 10k from someone in the UK. It was an entirely legal and legitimate transfer of money into my bank account from a UK bank account. However, the money took over 2 weeks (from the time it left the UK bank account to reach mine). Naturally, when it didn't arrive in my bank account after a few days, I became concerned. Neither bank had the money, so where was it? After many phone calls, my bank told me the Australian government had frozen the money and to call AUSTRAC. When I phoned AUSTRAC they told me that they had no idea where the money was but it's disappearance certainly had nothing to do with them as they never freeze or confiscate money ... Well, I had just about given up hope when the money finally appeared in my account. That experience made me realize that the Australian government can make money disappear into thin air ... Fortunately in my case it reappeared again.

sounds like paypal

 

[bron suchecki]

Neither bank had the money, so where was it? After many phone calls, my bank told me the Australian government had frozen the money and to call AUSTRAC. When I phoned AUSTRAC they told me that they had no idea where the money was but it's disappearance certainly had nothing to do with them as they never freeze or confiscate money

I think one of the banks was BS you. I'm assuming the money at one end or the other had to be converted from pounds to dollars, that adds in some delay, then you have international transfer, which can take longer than normal, so that would explain some of the delay. However, banks sit on transfers as they earn interest on it, so I think the Govt frozen it story was BS, particularly as they blamed it on AUSTRAC which as you found out they don't do. Either your bank just wanted to hold on to the cash for a bit or some person had stuffed up internally by not processing it and instead of taking the blame made up some BS story. That is far more plausible IMO then the "government" being interested in a lousy $10,000.

 

[Nationalist]

That's probably the mist likely scenario, but it's interesting that on a separate occasion I received money from the UK, by the same method, it was less than 10k and it arrived in less than 48 hours.