-j-p-shmorgan
New Member
Stoic Phoenix said:
Perhaps the following is just naive wishful thinking....
I'd like a company to value my business as much as I value my money.
Pretty simple. :lol:
ARE OUR MINTS DEVALUING THEIR OWN PRODUCT ?
- Thread starter silversearcher
- Start date
Perhaps the following is just naive wishful thinking....
I'd like a company to value my business as much as I value my money.
Pretty simple. :lol:
silversearcher said:
This was sort of the point I was making. the reason I am interested is because being a very new collector I couldnt believe how cheap and quickly I was able to acquire almost a full set of 90,s 1oz proof kooks even with low issue certificate numbers. Given the price I paid for the proofs and my full set of square caps plus all 2000 to present round caps what future hope is there for so many bullion luna,s if the re sale premium is so high already? Is it just opportunistic miss judgment?
In 15 - 20 years the high premium luna,s are traded for today are likely to sell for much much less premium than paid now because newer designs will be even more readily available in huge quantities to those with the spare funds to buy so many.
fishtaco said:
Not much future for many of the Lunars I'm afraid. Some have hit their peak in price and will continue to remain that price. Remember that the 2012 1 oz Dragon was sold at around $50 due to high price of silver at the time. It's the still the same price and the privy can be bought for less. Many of the Kooks have hit their peak also. I wouldn't be surprised that in 10 to 15 years that many high premium coins will bought at the same price as most common rounds, or for a couple of bucks more above spot. I say this, as recently I have been purchasing Australia Stamp Packs. After 30 years many or most are worth less than released on issue. And the crazy thing is that the face value of the stamps are worth more than what I pay for them . Which means that being mint stamps I can pull them out of the pack and use them to post my mail with. And even more crazy is that the Ebay seller still has to post it to me which costs 70c, as I usually buy these with FREE POST included. This shows you sentiment after a craze or hype can really be on the nose with some collector items. However, in 10 years time when many of these stamps have been tossed or re used as a postage stamps, they could well gain its collector value. This is happening with vinyl records as I speak. As there is a renewed interest in the analogue sound . So maybe there is potential for stamps in the future. I only buy them because it reminds me of my youth, and is a fun cheap hobby that is not too expensive on the wallet. I only buy silver for investment purposes, and as a hedge against inflation. It the past I did see potential in some of my Perth Mint stuff making solid gains. But coming close to my 3rd year in stacking, the milk spot issue and over priced premiums was the final nail in the coffin when it comes to all these dumb designs out there. The warning signs are out there. As the endless supply of Provident rounds ( zombucks , pirates etc ), Perth Mint , poured skulls, bullets and the list goes on. It's absolute hype built on the back of the current silver craze...Does this sound like many other crazes ? I think so.
Cheers
Not just Australia Post, and there are other factors.
All Post Offices went mad on producing collector sets, first day covers, postcards, booklets, year sets etc. It was a good source of revenue for them, all they had to do was take a cheap piece of paper and print a high denomination on it. Then email came along, making letter writing a dead end.
Phonecards came out, with one design, so people collected them. Then all the telecoms decided that if people were going to collect them it would be a good source of revenue for them, all they had to do was take a cheap piece of plastic and print a high denomination on it. Then mobile phones came along, making public phoneboxes a dead end.
Now we are starting to see a rise in commemorative banknotes and the commemorative coin industry is well on its way, all they had to do was take a cheap piece of metal and stamp a high denomination on it. Then credit cards came along...
All Post Offices went mad on producing collector sets, first day covers, postcards, booklets, year sets etc. It was a good source of revenue for them, all they had to do was take a cheap piece of paper and print a high denomination on it. Then email came along, making letter writing a dead end.
Phonecards came out, with one design, so people collected them. Then all the telecoms decided that if people were going to collect them it would be a good source of revenue for them, all they had to do was take a cheap piece of plastic and print a high denomination on it. Then mobile phones came along, making public phoneboxes a dead end.
Now we are starting to see a rise in commemorative banknotes and the commemorative coin industry is well on its way, all they had to do was take a cheap piece of metal and stamp a high denomination on it. Then credit cards came along...
-j-p-shmorgan
New Member
Jislizard said:
Finally, someone who actually sees silver for silver.
1oz is 1oz. Idc what you clowns say. :lol:
Jislizard said:
Funny you mentioned this. I just got another weekly email of new Perth Mint editions today. Had one last week also. This stuff is coming in like spam now. Now they are peddling the new high relief Koala's and a 2 0z Gold Wedge Tail Eagles and the list goes on and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Being Australian, I'm embarrassed by the nature of the overpriced bullion these guys churn out. Churning out over inflated bullion may be one thing, but some of the designs they pumped out this year are appalling ( e.g The Lunar Goat and the 2015 Koala ), and some of the 2103 and 2014 designs were not that good either. This shows that they don't give a stuff anymore. There was time when companies had pride in their product, but pride went out the window years ago with this new lot at the helm. Long as the money rolls through the door that's all that matters for them. Don't be surprised in a decade that door may no longer be open. And that may be a good thing ! It may open up another door for a Aussie Mint who can take over and do a better job. I've already drop kicked Perth Bullion out of my bullion portfolio for the time being until they smarten up... Cheers
fishtacoote said:
We dont allow people to buy up a lot of proof coins, some people may try and scam using different names but often we pick those up and cancel orders. For bullion well it is bullion - we dont want to stop people from buying metal, that helps to push up metal prices, given the massive mintages i dont think it would be a problem
silversearcher said:
I don't work in the coin side so have no input into those decisions, but the way I look at it a lot of the coins are targeted at theme collectors and not coin collectors so we are expanding the market and introducing precious metals and coins to a whole new bunch of people. A star trek coin for example will be bought by trek collectors, that is new demand for gold/silver helping to push prices up and maybe those new buyers might have a look at other coins, adding to general coin collecting numbers. I also suspect these theme collectors may never sell their coins - not so much flipping by them as they are interested in the theme.
-j-p-shmorgan said:
We refine 250 tonnes of gold and a shed load of silver, we ain't selling all that as high premium product so we are always interested in selling lower premium product.
BTW, what are we talking about here when you say "high premium" - proof, semi-numi bullion (limited mintage) or no mintage bullion?
-j-p-shmorgan
New Member
bron suchecki said:
I was referring to proof, & semi-numi items.
As far as lower premium products - Silver is under $15 USD, yet I have to pay $200+ USD/oz for a 10oz Perth bar.
Hardly "low premium". It would be nice to see some bars listed at competitive prices.
I think Perth would gain a lot more business with such a competitive online marketplace.
-j-p-shmorgan said:
But those PERTH MINT bars are special...They come with their own unique set of scratches. Each one is different. Just like the Funnel Web Spider not one is identical. They come with there own set of milk spots and not one has the same pattern just like a zebra. This is not junk silver we sell in Australia it's SPECIAL JUNK SILVER.
Gatito Bandito
Active Member
silversearcher said:
Tell us how you really feel.. :lol:
Bit harsh, perhaps. But, we all have our preferences & opinions.
I thought some of their designs in 2014/2015 were (at least) fine.. Kooks, Koalas, Lunars.. Also a few others like the Stock-Horse, Wedge-Tail & Crocs, etc.
Had a couple instances of some quality issues, but that's pretty much a given for any mint (even over the years, decades & centuries of minting coins).
I've picked up various numbers & sizes of PM coins for those years above, probably the most of all mints, in terms of quantity, weight & dollars for modern pieces.
Even though I don't really collect kilo coins, I like the 2014 Kook so much that I got the kilo version, for example.
Don't have much gold, either.. So I have to be selective there. And I did grab a 2015 Kangaroo, which is pretty sexy, IMO.
All of that sort of says a lot, at least to me.
That's not to say that mints everywhere aren't cranking out tons of coin designs & variations these days.. PM certainly isn't the exception.
And when they put out lots of various products, inevitably they're not all going to be awesome to everybody. In fact, some will just plain suck, in the eyes of many.
But seems like they're trying to attract new market segments -- and perhaps they don't "suck" to them.. Like Trekkies, and Disney fans, and Asian-themed collectors.
Even planting the seed for the next generation of stackers/collectors, with products obviously geared towards those under 25 years old.. You know, that age group who you (or your heirs) will probably be selling your stack to years down the road.
Is it all too much? Probably.
And seems like quality issues have been creeping up, with milk-spots, die fatigue, etc. Should always be the #1 focus, regardless of how many designs.
Again, PM isn't alone in this. Doesn't make it right, but I wouldn't exactly single them out, either.
Hopefully they are here, reading & listening.
In the end, the market will decide -- by buying, and by not buying.
A company isn't going to keep pumping out products that nobody is purchasing.
-j-p-shmorgan said:
We sell 10oz silver bars for metal + AUD 21.00 http://www.perthmint.com.au/metalPrices.aspx
I'm assuming you are from the US, in which case the premium you are paying must be additional dealer markup to pay for shipping etc from Aust to US.
-j-p-shmorgan
New Member
bron suchecki said:
I guess shipping is extremely expensive. :|
I did see some 10oz bars listed @ Perth for $171 USD, however, they were sold out. lol
Compared with Sunshine Mint 10 oz for $155 and you can see how it takes some convincing for people to buy Perth here.
mmissinglink
Active Member
^ If you don't like the price, just don't buy it...very simple.
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-j-p-shmorgan
New Member
mmissinglink said:
Such pronounced wisdom there.
The point is Perth would do substantially more business here in the US with price competitiveness.
I just see it as missed opportunity on their end.
But hey, if they don't care about USA sales - that's fine. :lol:
Jim4silver
Well-Known Member
-j-p-shmorgan said:
It's supply and demand. If the Perth Mint is selling lots of product, then they must have found a price/demand equilibrium that appears fair to buyers. Many foreign coins coming into the US cost more for us here because they go through more "middlemen" to get to the retail markets (local stores). That's why I only buy that kind of stuff relatively cheap in the secondary market after the original buyer gives up and dumps it at spot at the local stores.
Just my opinion.
Jim
-j-p-shmorgan
New Member
Well, I wouldn't mind living in Australia....except for the fact that it's a deathtrap.
http://www.cracked.com/funny-5997-the-animals-that-make-australia-deathtrap-it-is/
Almost worth paying the premiums, and staying in the USA after seeing all the deadly animals. :lol:
http://www.cracked.com/funny-5997-the-animals-that-make-australia-deathtrap-it-is/
Almost worth paying the premiums, and staying in the USA after seeing all the deadly animals. :lol:
-j-p-shmorgan said:
Our distance from the key US and Europe markets has always been a problem. We have done a lot in recent years to get our coins into the US but our refinery is not geared up for mass quantities of small bars so we haven't pushed those product lines beyond the local market.
mmissinglink
Active Member
-j-p-shmorgan said:
Clearly wisdom is lost on you as it's quite obvious that you don't understand basic market principles. Try reading some of the comments in this thread by folks like Bron Sucheki...you may actually learn something about the PM and the market.
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